doorknob

Nice! Thank's for the new phrase!!

stone

Hi Paul, when i said maybe I wasn't expressing myself very well, it was just a general statement and not cos of you.

It was just cos I was tired and wasn't sure if I was contradicting myself because my thoughts on these matters are not fully formed, I don't have a definite position on a lot of this stuff and tend to just think outloud as I mull the point over.

Anyhoo..

Regarding the insanity point, I think I must have been insane to keep drinking when I knew what it would do to me, the pain involved. Just before I would drink I would literally say to myself "this time it will be different", that is insanity to me. Nothing to do with physical addiction.

I don't usually bother analysing this stuff as it is pointless, if what a person is doing is working then that is all that matters.

Zencat

I think that it really...a good amount of brain functioning is altered with prolonged exposure to harmful substances like alcohol. I can see how reason, beliefs, emotional response and basic instincts can get corrupted. If the 'will to live' can be set aside in the face of dire health conditions, personal safety and whatever else that poses a danger to basic survival wile continuing to drink, willpower seems to me...to be unstable for some.

I have tried to explain my drug use, relapse and sober recovery in terms of choice. A choice that was most likely determined by varying levels of brain functioning and determination.

SoberforME

That sounds like me. I just don't have time to attend meetings. I'm here on SR everyday and I attend 1 or 2 meetings a week. I have a full time job and comedy or acting most nights of the week. I do want to go out of my way to make more AA/Sober friends so I can have a sober social circle but I can't see myself as a 'Career AA'er'.

I don't judge those that are. As long as you stay sober, I don't care how you do it.

I also am a practicing Buddhist and don't have issue with the spiritual. I do however hate Lord's Prayer.

Taking5

I hate the lords prayer at AA meetings too. Occasionally when we have a group conscience meeting I bring this up. What about the Jewish, Buddhist, Wiccan, Atheist or fill-in-the-blank drunk?

Not many care, but one of my closest AA buddies is atheist. I don't push my beliefs on him and he doesn't push his beliefs on me. I don't know why the program can't be like that, although my group is better than many.

spark42

I attend aa meetings occasionally, mainly for the group support, being able to share openly and honestly about my alcoholism, and connecting with other alcoholics.

As an atheist i have a lot of trouble with the religious aspects of aa, especially "we agnostics", and the clear insistence that belief and dependence upon a supernatural creative intelligence is essential for recovery.

I don't consider myself "in the program" because i don't do the steps.

I agree - aa is most definitely not the only way to get sober and stay sober. If something works for someone, and it isn't causing harm to anyone else, i say good on them.

What bothers me is that some people within aa will tell people that aa is the only way, that not going to meetings will mean that person will drink, that anyone who doesn't do the steps isn't really sober or happy, that the big book is word for word to be followed and not questioned, anyone who doesn't believe in god is arrogant / self centred, and so on. I have heard all of this in aa.

Pagekeeper

I just tell those people that I'll "pray to Darwin" for them.

doorknob

Spark, we're on the same exact page. I agree with you point for point.

Tonight should be interesting. I'm getting tossed into an aftercare group at the small 12-Step based treatment center in my small rural town.

doorknob

That's when I start talking about gods, goddesses, godlets, pixies, sprites and sky fairies, lol...

Fubarcdn

Good luck DK. My biggest trigger is people that annoy me. Thank SR for the ignore button or I might have slipped by now . I hope you don't have any of those at your meeting.

stone

We don't say teh Our Father at meetings in the UK, I think it is disgraceful that they do in America. It says in teh damn pre-amble

and then they say the Our Father (Lords Prayer)!

bugsworth

Fubarcdn....I tend to look at triggers as a way to learn about myself. Early in recovery...a few months in...I found hunger was a huge trigger...I use to not eat all day so when I got home from work the first drink ...slug from a bottle...did its job quickly. Now that I am armed with this information I can avoid the situation entirely. After my first full year of sobriety I realized that triggers are just my reaction to certain situations. I have found that concentrating on changing how I react to anger, criticism, judgement...etc paves the way to a much more peaceful life.

The ignore button, while useful does not stop you from "slipping"...you do that. IMO slipping is something that happens on the ice...the decision to buy alcohol, pour it in a glass, lift it to your mouth and swallow is deliberate...no slipping involved. No mystery to this process just fierce determination!

DK..required or suggested meeting?

Eroica

I agree with bugs and doorknob.. its either a lack of motivation that keeps one from quitting or an ambivalence about never using again. After the withdrawals and PAWS, should one choose to use again its a choice. I agree with doorknob that it can still be a difficult choice, affected by circumstance.

BUT i'd like to add that will power is still crucial if we're confronted by cravings or people/places/feelings in which intoxication might be tempting. (I mean, lets get real, its hard to stay clean because getting high is fun/relaxing on some level.) In this case, it really isnt ambivalence since we can never foresee those circumstance even though we've made up our mind not to use again. And its not a lack of motivation either since we think we're motivated, so it must be lack of will power-(if we're not tempted in those situations, then its not a lack of will power). Yes, we can "prepare" for those situations, but only to a degree.

Thats Rational Recovery in a nutshell: you know using is bad and you exercise your will power enough in difficult situations until you no longer see using as an option.

Fubarcdn

[QUOTE=SelfSeeking;2093170]You may someday get to the point where you frankly hate everything about drinking and still keep reaching for it.

.[QUOTE]

That won't happen because I already stated I quit for good. If I slip and reach for it it won't be because I hate it.

Fubarcdn

That was sarcasm by the way people in case some of you didn't get it.

doorknob

Well... it lies somewhere in between. A chemical dependency evaluation was required as a condition of my disability benefits, and I told the CD counselor that I was willing to give it a try. I probably could have gotten out of it, but figured it wouldn't hurt, and right now, I really don't have much else to do. I've always liked group therapy type stuff, and that's what it is, not an actual AA meeting. And it will give me a chance to meet some local addicts.

123bubblegum123

Wow Paul -


The thing about AA for me is that when i feel low it helps, but when i feel great i can come out of a meeting depressed

you seriously have read my mind! I'm a genuinely happy person, and I really just let whatever **** happens roll off my shoulders, and I've found that most people I've met in the program (at least in the local program i'm a part of) are way more melodramatic and drama-oriented. It's like "no news is good news" and it frusterates the hell out of me.


I guess it makes me wonder whether i really need AA. Don't get me wrong i'm not deciding to stop AA altogether, it has helped and may help in the future.

I feel the same way. Because we don't have significant clean time (over a year or two) I think now would be an inappropriate time to make any hasty decisions about leaving the program - but I often wonder if AA is right for me right now or if it's a forever type deal. You are so not the only one!

I appreciate any thoughts on this. I also would like to say that for a newcomer i think the AA is a massive help, but for me i think there will come a time where perhaps i don't need the AA meetings.

I also agree with this, go figure! I've been in and out of AA/NA for a few years now, and I'm still in my teens. Because I'm so much younger than the majority of people in AA, I feel at odds with the program a lot. I'm thankful to have this site because it has such a diverse amount of people in recovery, but I totally see, and I think I understand, where you are coming from. I have a great aunt who is well over 50 and got clean in her late 20's - she goes to a meeting EVERYDAY. (She's also not in the workforce, so..) I'm still a newcomer, and because I'm in college and have a very full life outside of AA I struggle to make the 90 in 90! I think meetings are very personal - maybe restrict meetings to days where you feel you need one!

Please feel free to write me/message me if you want to talk about it more. I think it's a really interesting and important subject!

Rachel

bugsworth

No judgement from me DK just curious. I hope it is something you really like.

Dee74

I think Self Seeking's point was that many of us loved drinking but inevitably grew to hate it, Fubar, but then we found we couldn't stop anyway. That was certainly my experience. It's the progression of the disease, as I saw it anyway.

And will power is not an issue for me Eroica. I'm not an AAer but I have finally and fully surrended () and accepted that I'm an alcoholic.

I know the results of a drink, beyond doubt.

Only an insane person would willingly put themselves through that - and I am not insane (well no more than anyone else here )

D

doorknob

I didn't take it that way, Bugs.

It might be really good and it might totally blow... but it's something to do tonight beside sit in front of this computer, lol...