Taking5

Jeez you could darn near make step 2 from that one quote.

bugsworth

Stone, I am confused by your posts. First you say, I don't think I could do it on willpower and group support, if drinking or not drinking was just a choice....that doesn't sound like alcoholism to me." Then you say " I am happy with my one a week but I don't go to keep myself sober, I go to socialise with recovering alkies, I do like recovering alkies."

Could you explain to me what it is then that keeps you sober? What is it this time that worked for you? The steps? I am genuinely confused.

During my time here at SR I have been told numerous times that I am not a real alcoholic because I could quit on my own, I am so grateful that I never believed it and I wish that people would refrain from saying it to others...it certainly could lead someone into believing they can safely drink again.

digderidoo

Very good point.

I have been told that both my brother and my best friend may not be real alcoholics, even though they both seem to be drinking themselves to death.

Paul

stone

Bugs, if it was as simple as a choice there wouldn't ever be a problem would there? Why not choose to stop before it becomes a problem?

I did go on to say I could understand it being a choice if the person has really had enough. Has hit, in AA terms, a bottom.

I don't know what is working for me atm, I think it is a mixture of having enough and "choosing" not to drink again and making some changes in the way I behave and think, the steps has played a part and so has Buddhism and Eckhart Tolle and other spiritual influences.

I tend to think most things are a mixture of causes rather than being able to say it is just one factor.

I did not mean to imply you or anyone was not a real alcoholic, I hate people doing that as much as you do.

windysan

Dope was being sold after meetings. I didn't need to be a customer. I avoid feral people. That is all. Thank you.

stone

For choice to be possible some kind of sanity has to return first, like the quote I posted says. What is it that can bring about that return to sanity?
Having enough/hitting bottom maybe? The steps maybe?

I didn't put it very well earlier, I was just thinking aloud with my fingers typing at the same time.

digderidoo

Fantastic.

As someone who was brought up in a strict religious way, i wholeheartedly agree.

stone

Perhaps I am not explaining things very well, I am just musing rather than writing down my credo or anything. Also I need to sleep!

digderidoo

I think you're explaining yourself very well stone. I haven't highlighted that quote because of anything you said, i highlighted because i missed it earlier and think it's a great quote.

Paul

bugsworth

Thanks Stone...I wasn't trying to put you on the spot.

I do believe drinking after physical addiction has been addressed is a choice. True powerlessness would mean no one would ever get past day 1. Obviously we have the power to quit...maybe like you said it is the motivation to quit that is lacking.

Pagekeeper

I look at choice a bit differently, so I'll add my 2 cents.

I believe I can stay sober on willpower alone. Where my willpower fails me is after I pick up a drink. No amount of willpower can stop me then because I have a physical reaction to alcohol that is abnormal, and willpower is of no help once the chemical is in my body and effecting my brain.

So, for me, my choice resides in picking up the first drink, but I lose the choice to stop drinking once I have started. Therefore willpower alone can keep me sober, but willpower cannot help me drink normally or help me to moderate my drinking.

I choose to work the steps because they are tools that keep me focused on staying sober. They help me to focus on my recovery from alcoholism, and even though it has taken some cognitive acrobatics to make them work for me, so what? To be perfectly blunt, I've been doing mental acrobatics for many years to figure out how to drink like other people, so what's it to me to jump through a few more mental hoops?

Taking5

Bugs I agree 100%. Now addressing that physical addiction can be damn tough, and many people need help at this point. But as of now i have some good sober time behind me, and I choose not to drink today,

Fubarcdn

I agree with you Bugs. It has to do with motivation. I have quit before for set periods. I would say I will quit for so many months and after I reached that goal I would drink again because I choose to take that first drink again.
This time I will quit forever and choose not to take that first drink.
The last thing I need is somebody telling me I can't do it unless I follow this or that step or program and believe in this or that and if I don't do this and that or believe in this and that I am somehow less of a person than they are.

There are no rules in my life except the ones I make for myself.

digderidoo

I have always thought that setting goals is a dangerous thing. When i first quit i set the goal of maintaining 7 weeks up until a weekend away. I drank on that weekend away, but then i thought if i can make 7 weeks, i can do it again. So, guess what happened on day 49, i drank, which then lasted 5 weeks.

One day should always be the goal, nothing more in my opinion.

Fubarcdn

I know that is what works for most people but my brain is wired a little different.
The first time I quit I did one day at a time and then each day I had a choice to make.
On that day I could choose to drink or not to drink. I went about 4 months and then choose to drink and was back drinking steady.
The second time I set a goal of not drinking for 4 months and on the day after the 4 months the goal was achieved and then instead of setting another goal I choose to drink because frankly I like everything about drinking.
This time I choose to not drink again ever because I am getting a lot older and a little wiser.
So, this time I know I can achieve the goal I set out because I have before.
If I go one day at a time I have to make a choice everyday and I know that one of those days I would likely make the wrong choice but now I don't have to make a choice at all again because it is preselected in my psyche.
Although I am confident this will work FOR ME I am not 100% sure and if it doesn't I will try it one day at a time again.

The only choice I have by the way is to take the first drink or not. I have little choice on the second and no choice on the third and that is what makes me an alcoholic.

I know this is contrary to what most think works but I am hopeful it will work for me.

SelfSeeking

You may someday get to the point where you frankly hate everything about drinking and still keep reaching for it. That's where I was when I finally dragged my sad sorry butt into an AA meeting. Believe you me I went up one wall and down another to figure out a way around it. But walking into an AA meeting- and then when I hated that one, walking into others- has saved my life.

My mom's dad died after 10 years sober in AA, in a devoted marriage, close friends, and kids that loved him to pieces, after he'd made up the best he could for all the time he spent in blackouts rather than being a father. My dad's dad died with his mind lost, his body destroyed, most of his family estranged, and begging for alcohol with his last words. I know this may sound a little melodramatic but I saw the choices in front of me and I'm glad I went the way where I have to tolerate cheeseball slogans and the Lord's Prayer.

doorknob

Just because something is a choice, doesn't make it easy. Some choices can be excruciatingly difficult to make. Personally, I don't think I am or ever was insane. I was definitely ambivalent, still am at times. But I'm not looking for some outside force, supernatural or otherwise, to change that. I am, however, quite open to a little positive influence...

doorknob

Word! Obviously getting sober doesn't mean you have to be castrated...

windysan

doorknob

If I recall correctly, they are magically delicious!