GerandTwine

Hi Sh,

Well, it’s been a week since you had some more to drink again.

Two days after that was your last post to SR in a thread about a self avowed alcohol addict who had “accidentally become a Normie” (a normal drinker). I’m sure your AV loved reading that thread which just happened to start several hours before you decided to have that martini.

Anyway, here, this is your thread even though you haven’t posted since you started it. Yes, Tatsy sort of hijacked it, but I think her good intentions have won out here in your behalf in spite of her going off on a few tangents.

She posted here some encouraging quotes that you made to her from when she made her final pledge of permanent abstinence a while ago.

In those quotes you refer to the AV. I want to reveal to you what part of those quotes IS the AV with the end result hopefully being that you can see the Addictive Voice of the Beast is actually a lot simpler and rudimentary than you seem to make it out to be.

The AV is the expression of the biological desire for a very specific and deep pleasure. The essence of pleasure seeking is very true in its nature, and the one singular goal of the AV is not a lie, it is a truth, that you will feel that specific deep pleasure if you drink again. Very simple stuff. Outside of these foundational facts, you are correct, the AV is full of manipulative lies, but it is all only about getting you to drink again.

This “extension” you make is incorrect. It was actually all those diminishings that got me to take quitting alcohol for good seriously. If that diminishing hadn’t happened, I don’t think I would have stopped drinking when I did. That was part of my taking the full moral hit of personal responsibility for what I did under the influence. It may be that you have never hurt someone due to being under the influence of alcohol. That does not mean it makes using AVRT any harder. You know whether it is ultimately right or wrong for you to ever drink again. Others can influence you about that, but YOU have already decided and you know what that decision is. Once you decide it is wrong for you, in AVRT it is not possible to go back to drinking being right. That’s just the Beast’s AV.

Your AV is not seeking to ruin you. It is just seeking to get you to drink. IT wants you to be saavy, slick, and sly in getting away with drinking some more and not getting in trouble. The fake depression thing can be real AV, but the “making your life unworthy of living”, and “removing all reason for self satisfaction” sounds more like your AV hiding in a diversion of melodrama much like the fake depression.

What’s interesting here, Sh, is that you do not have a Big Plan, so, instead of saying “declaring your Big Plan”, you say “declaring your sobriety” which in AVRT is 100% AV.

This is an interesting end to what I agree is not a platitude. You have taken the pivotal question in AVRT: What are your plans for the future use of alcohol? and changed it to “make that plan for the continued use of alcohol.” which effectively renders it rhetorical beyond logic, because the only correct answer presents the keystone block in the structure of the short and sweet AVRT process: “I will never drink again.” Without that answer, as Terminally Unique says, AV recognition is just another “one-day-at-a-time evasion scheme”

And I believe in you, too, Sh. I wish you the best in your plans for the future use of alcohol, and on any drugs used outside the prescription of a doctor whom YOU, and not your AV, trusts.

GT

PS. There is another important AV Recognition that I want to point out. Any explaining of taking that first drink as anything but a very deliberate, premeditated, conscious series of complex voluntary actions, is one of the Beast’s favorite uses of its Addictive Voice; especially identifying that first drink as “Oh, it was just an accident.” That is simply scurrilous.

I highly recommend learning the thirty terms defined on the Rational Recovery website. Go the the “site map” in the left column and then “Rational Recovery Dictionary”

Fusion

GT, FYI the ​​​​above quote which you have commented upon in#21, and credited to Sohard, is in fact from Freshstart57.

The above is Freshstart57 as set out in #4

The following is the quote from Sohard as set out in #6:

Fusion

Sohard, Bimini posted this link in Newcomers recently. I recalled reading it yeats ago, it had an impact on me in relation to dealing with the AV's 'euphoric recall'.

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...anagement.html (Emotional Memory Management)

Fusion

Thanks Dee, of course you're right. I suppose there's no point in contacting Jack T because each person's interpretation of a technique or program, and their application thereof, is filtered via their own experience, and therefore unique. No iron-clad right or wrong interpretation. Not that JT's opinion on the teaching of AVRT on SR, would have any bearing on SR members, as you rightly noted.

Rilement quashed and knickers untwisted! Peace in the Valley reigns again, Dee. And thanks for everything.

Thinking of you, Sohard 🤗.

GerandTwine

I apologize for not researching who originally posted what Tatsy offered here for Sohard. So, I thank Freshstart for creating the example above which includes AV unrecognized. I’ve changed only the authorship in my post below to reflect that.

Fusion

Hi GT, I hardly think that Freshstart57 posting the quote you've referred to above (originally in my thread, to spur me on last year), includes unrecognised AV, given that: Freshstart has been sober for over 11 years. He must be getting something right, as an AVRT adherent.

GerandTwine

Hi Tatsy,

Counting “sober” time for another person to establish their credibility is all Addictive Voice.

I know Freshstart put his recovery behind him a long time ago as he became a common teetotaler, and yes, he does know a lot about AVRT.

But, I went over to look at the context of the quote from him that you posted here. He knew he was talking to someone who had been continuously drunk for months on end and it was another attempt of about 5 or so to, as you put it, “spur you on”. Your response to his last post was that you were too drunk to read it and would read in the morning when you were less drunk. I think that response finally jolted him out of participating in that thread any more, and he didn’t.

Freshstart surely knows that AVRT does not work at all, Nada, with drunk people. I think your communication abilities as a maintenance drinker had seduced him into “spurring you” with some AV banter. He really had been adding his two cents along with everyone else in trying to get you to stop drinking. (Aside: this ability of someone drinking alcohol to act as if they aren’t is another reason that AVRT should be offered as clinically direct as possible.)

Further evidence about how Freshstart was thinking about your thread on Secular Connections that ran all the way out to 500+ posts, and the inability of AVRT to work there in such circumstances can be seen when you and I picked up on that conversation in soberFitness’ thread below this thread here in the Permanent Abstnence Forum.

Please notice who appreciated post #103 in that thread.

Post #103 in soberFitness’ thread below (How is it physically possible to make a permanent future decision ?)

Fusion

GT, you seem to have a gripe with me posting in this PABR thread. Your last post #27 is pretty mean, below the belt it feels. You're pointing out the Tatsy of a year ago. In AVRT terms, I am now a phormer drunk.

Freshstart and others were mentors to me in 2016, consequent upon which I climbed out of addiction andI achieved two and a half years sobriety: against a backdrop of two decades, with just 11 days not drinking.

Freshstart also helped me immensely, to see the sobriety light once more last year, by the quote you've posted twice here. I simply don't see why you would try to sully his memory for me, by your post #27.

This is Sohard's thread. Why are persisting on concentrating upon and denigrating me and others?

GerandTwine

To the contrary. I thank you very much for posting here. Everything you have said has been useful for revealing AVRT.

I really don’t look at it as who may be getting denigrated where and by whom in this thread, and that’s not what I’m trying to do at all. That is useless. It’s all about the solidity and effectiveness of Addictive Voice Recognition Technique correctly done, and pointing out the Addictive Voice.

Fusion

I agree GT. So please desist. Peace out in the Valley.

GerandTwine

Desist? I will not desist in revealing AVRT and exposing fake AVRT. Nothing personal is intended, Thank you.

GT

PS, and I promise, I’m really not a “last word freak” (from Melvin Udall in “As Good As It Gets”) LOL

Philemon

Can I have the last word?

AlericB

Yes you can.

Sohard, as someone who's read the AVRT book, Tatsy's and Freshstart57's explanations and advice above are all good, as was yours to Tatsy. So have confidence in your understanding of AVRT and the best of luck!

Dee74

I hope SoHard comes back reads and gets something out of this thread.

I hate closing help me threads. This, to me, is not a good outcome - but seeing as the entire last page here is basically members squabbling amongst themselves and no one wants to stop.or use the ignore function, we’re done here.

Dee
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