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Old 07-08-2018, 03:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
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As a Buddhist...


I like this idea of AVRT. It falls in line with my Zen Buddhist practice of increasing awareness, and that reality is actually an illusion. That is, what we think exists actually exists only in our mind. We endeavor to see where real interaction with physical reality ends and thoughts about reality begin. Iíve been surprised to learn how much of my daily experience is just my thoughts about things.

AVRT seems to emphasize that addiction is a voice in the mind trying to BS you into thinking itís something real, and therefore has power over you. But it doesnít, so long as you see clearly that itís only a thought.

Itís exciting to see my efforts in maintaining sobriety as another part of my daily spiritual practice.

Thatís all I wanted to say. 😊
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Old 07-08-2018, 03:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You may also be interested in Refuge Recovery

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Refuge Recovery is a mindfulness-based addiction recovery community that practices and utilizes Buddhist philosophy as the foundation of the recovery process. Drawing inspiration from the core teachings of the Four Noble Truths, emphasis is placed on both knowledge and empathy as a means for overcoming addiction and its causes. Those struggling with any form of addiction greatly benefit when they are able to understand the suffering that addiction has created while developing compassion for the pain they have experienced. We hope to serve you, and meet you on the path.
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Treebeard View Post

AVRT seems to emphasize that addiction is a voice in the mind trying to BS you into thinking itís something real, and therefore has power over you. But it doesnít, so long as you see clearly that itís only a thought.

. 😊

Soberlicious , ( a poster down here in the Secular Section of SR )Ö.. has expressed how she'd employed the basic principles of AVRT well before she learned of it . I can't speak for her ,...but I believe she was using the Buddhist concept of separation you're describing .

Reframing addiction through the lens of AVRT has made all the difference for me .

Welcome Treebeard .
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Welcome aboard

I think my having learned about and practiced AVRT has made me a little buddistish

I think culturally Buddhism is generally well associated with the aspect of ‘separation ‘ especially concerning desire.

More than once I’ve described ending an addiction as having to get a little Buddhist about it
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
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You may also be interested in Refuge Recovery

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Thanks.

Nice to see you again, too.
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Student of Buddhism, developing a practice was part of my sobriety plan that I haven't done yet. I need to get on that, possibly with Refuge. I did my own version of AVRT as well. Freedom from desire is huge to me, also the Zen Buddhist precepts that include no consciousness altering drugs of any kind.

Detachment and the Middle Way.

When I was in inpatient rehab I read Kevin Griffin's Buddhist based 12 steps instead of the Big Book. It made more sense to me, even though I eventually abandoned the 12 Step recovery model as unnecessary for me.
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treebeard
I like this idea of AVRT. It falls in line with my Zen Buddhist practice of increasing awareness, and that reality is actually an illusion. That is, what we think exists actually exists only in our mind.
My mind (neocortex) is an example of what is only a few million years old. Right next door is my midbrain a part of my central nervous system that is a few billion years old. I don’t think of these facts about my brain as illusions. They are the basis of the “Structural Model” of addiction. This fifth grade level science model is ALL that is necessary to lay the foundation of Addictive Voice Recognition Technique.

It appears some would call the following two entities illusions;
1 - my chemically unaltered human mind’s better judgement, and
2 - my midbrain’s ancient function of motivating my organism to stay alive.

I do not consider them (my Recognition of my AV or my AV itself) illusions.

1 - My Recognition of a biologically driven desire to drink/drug is just like my recognizing my desire to sleep or eat. No illusions there, obviously. If I don’t think of sleeping or eating, I won’t last long.
2 - The central nervous system function of creating pleasure and pain towards satisfying appetites is a billions-of-years-old reality of life. So, while the Beast may be a very narrow part of this ancient function, still no illusion there either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treebeard
We endeavor to see where real interaction with physical reality ends and thoughts about reality begin. I’ve been surprised to learn how much of my daily experience is just my thoughts about things.

AVRT seems to emphasize that addiction is a voice in the mind trying to BS you into thinking it’s something real, and therefore has power over you. But it doesn’t, so long as you see clearly that it’s only a thought.

It’s exciting to see my efforts in maintaining sobriety as another part of my daily spiritual practice.
What is missing here so far is what practicing the Technique of Addictive Voice Recognition very quickly and logically leads an addicted person to understand - and that is what the name of this subforum is - Permanent Abstinence.

The very popular illusion that an addicted person cannot make the decision “I will never drink again.” is at the core of what is called the American Addiction Treatment Tragedy.

It is also an illusion that swallowing/injecting alcohol/drugs happens as spontaneously as scratching an itch or taking a breath of air.

Is it an illusion that an addicted person can quickly reach the point at which they do not need to expend “effort in maintaining sobriety”?
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Old 07-10-2018, 04:16 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Iím sorry. I donít engage in debates online.
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:06 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Treebeard ~

A good Pal of mine presented this Perspective.

Say, someone honks at you in Traffic; gives you the ole Middle Finger Salute; and cuts you off 'in return', since they're feeling justified and aggrieved over some imagined slight in heavy Traffic. You can Knee-jerk your response, and cut them off in return to 'get even'.

My Pal's perspective instead is that this Traffic event happened at exact time 'x' on a digital Clock, and at a Global point defined precisely by a GPS. Everything else we overlay on to those 2 truths is our reaction, which can be chosen. No reaction is intrinsically mandated; anymore than a Family or Work situation makes me drink.

An ancillary benefit is that - as new Neural Pathways develop in Sobriety - it becomes easier and The New Normal to react to Life in non-Addict ways. The practice of separating out and examining my response to event 'x' is quite like the AVRT discipline of separating out my AV from the true Me.

While surely imperfect at always executing this chilled Perspective, I have made this sort of Detachment a big part of my ongoing Sober Life. For me, this is addressing Addict Responses at the core. You don't drink - or use - over situations I elect to no longer view as Stressors that require Self-Medication, or other unhealthy/artificial Coping Mechanisms.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:16 AM   #10 (permalink)
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The Nature of ďI donít do that.Ē

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I’m sorry. I don’t engage in debates online.
Very well stated.

I am going to assume that what you have decided about debating online is what AVRT very logically leads addicted people to decide about drinking/using.

When you read my earlier post, you didn’t even have to consider responding to the content, you simply recalled your past decision, “I will never engage in debates online.” and went on with your life. If you made that decision 20 years ago it has saved you lots and lots of time. (Witness your relatively low posting frequency on SR. My compliments.)

This is the nature of pledging permanent abstinence. It eliminates any consideration of even the remote possibility of acting upon a certain specific type of opportunity that may come to mind. Debating online and drinking/drugging are just two examples.
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Old 07-10-2018, 03:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I like this idea of AVRT. It falls in line with my Zen Buddhist practice of increasing awareness, and that reality is actually an illusion. That is, what we think exists actually exists only in our mind. We endeavor to see where real interaction with physical reality ends and thoughts about reality begin.
In relation to this thought you may find this video interesting Treebeard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d4ugppcRUE&t=3195s It's a talk by someone who took a Buddhist path after studying under Steven Hawking. He has spoken several times at the Science and non duality conference.

Namaste
नमस्ते
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Old 07-11-2018, 06:53 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I wish there were a way to like posts on this forum.

More than a few nice insights offered up in this thread.

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Old 07-11-2018, 09:30 AM   #13 (permalink)
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there is.
bottom right, "Thanks"
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:15 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I donít see it, but Iím on my phone. Maybe that version doesnít have it.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:53 PM   #15 (permalink)
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yes, mobile is different.
if you were to be on an ipad, pc or laptop or any such device, you would not only see the button but see the five "thank you" endorsments on your initial post.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:31 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I don't have likes on my ipad or android phone (mobile apps), but I do have that button on the desktop version in the Chrome browser.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
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odd....i have the oldest ipad of all, the first edition, and it shows the thanks button. but my fancy new phone cannot manage it.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:39 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Desktop view on iPhone

Desktop view on iPhone

I did not know how to do it either since most of the time I was posting from my phone. But on the main screen of the new posts you just keep scrolling all the way down to the bottom and there is a bar that says ďdesktop versionď and you hit that and of voila!


You can get the iPad/computer version on your phone and you can say ďthanksď and see everyoneís avatar itís so neat
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:19 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Ah yes; very cool.
I like not seeing avatars, actually, and on the phone there is not a third of the screen taken up with ads and links...much more to the point to just basically see the posts without all the distractions.
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Old 07-15-2018, 09:38 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Thanks, Free! Much better!!
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