ElvisInASkirt

It's the beast trying to get into the back door. It's trying to worm away at my confidence and hope but I'm just watching it and I know exactly what it is!

Cerberus

I am not sure if this is off topic or not, but I really want to know what others using AVRT are experiencing regarding this.

Has anyone had any symptoms of post acute withdrawal syndrome? or PAWS? I tried to repost the link Dee sent me earlier today but apparently I am not as technically inclined as i think i am.

so the basic info then is having difficulty thinking clearly, solving problems, sleep disturbances, memory problems and repetitive thinking. It is supposed to peak somewhere around 3 - 6 months.

I am at day 30 today and for the past week or so I feel like I have been going bloody insane with just about every one of those symptoms but most markedly problems with memory and clear thinking. My head feels like it is going to explode. The article I read while very informative about the symptoms had a bit too much 12 steppy-ness regarding how to deal with these symptoms so that's why I am wondering what all your experiences have been.

I don't want to drink, fortunately, but my beastie has been saying things like "look, here's the excuse you need! drinking will make this all go away..." Then I kick him in the balls and he runs back to his cave but still he is getting annoying.

hmm, guess my beast is a boy then. odd.

Terminally Unique

I was "off-kilter" for about 90 days or so; I had massive cravings, trouble sleeping, concentrating, and was very anxious and depressed. This is to be expected, depending on how much you were consuming, but if it continues beyond this time, it would be a good idea to speak with a psychiatrist. You could speak with one now, but standard protocol usually requires 90 days of abstinence before a proper diagnosis of depression or anxiety can be made.

ElvisInASkirt

Back on an even keel now after recognizing fully the AV as the source of discomfort within and my true self as the feeling of liberation from all of it.

I haven't followed the RR book's advice on everything. In fact I've been a little too forthcoming that I'm a teetotaler and there are people seemingly queuing up to mock me for it.

The best thing so far is that I can just skip over the 'Drinks' section in travel guides and not feel a thing.

Still counting the days but I feel the pull of each day is weakening and I'm settling.

I can't believe I let the chocolate liqueur thing almost destroy me mentally though. I hadn't heard from the AV in weeks almost!

Cerberus

Glad you are feeling better about the chocolate thing today Elvis. Hope your AV has backed off now. I am sorta still counting days too. I was until 30 days anyway, that one was important to me somehow and now it doesn't matter so much.

Thanks, AVRT - I feel so much relief just knowing that the PAWS symptoms exist outside of my own head and that others have gotten through it. It does incredibly **** me off though what have been doing to my body. At least i will never have to go through this again.

Cerberus

Did I just get censored? Lol didn't know the forum could do that! Must be more careful with language...

Terminally Unique

I posted this on another thread, but this is applicable here, since the premise of AVRT is self-recovery via instruction on planned, permanent abstinence modeled after the way people naturally recover, and some have inquired as to how effective that can be.

Contrary to what many would say, the majority of those suffering from alcohol dependence (alcoholics) do not recover using any program or treatment. The majority of alcoholics actually recover completely on their own. By sheer numbers and by percentage, no program or treatment to date can come close to matching the prevalence of self-recovery.
This is an hour-long lecture on the findings given by Mark L. Willenbring, MD, director of the division of treatment and recovery research at the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA):

DoubtfulDebs

i had that - in among with the genuine withdrawl symptoms, my new acuity of thought and things like having to think things through (instead of drinking to 'cope' and then making a hasty decision with that false certainty of the very drunk brain) or falling asleep at nights (not passing out) felt so freaky for a while i thought i had something wrong with me... in fact it was lack of a major cns depressant in the form of booze, and yeah my 'beast' was all over that for a start!

i've been using thought-stopping a fair bit to stop my beast even having the slightest chance to put the topic of drink on the table, and also nlp anchoring for a bracelet i bought, every time i have a great moment that affirms sobriety (eg waking up to see a beautiful dawn or enjoying a movie without sneaking some wine into the cinema) i 'anchor' it to this, i think techniques like this can sit alongside, or at least don't undermine, basic avrt.

debs

DoubtfulDebs

i have a different 'structural model' i use, hope it's not too off-topic - i see the addictive voice starting up as being like infected files on a computer (ie my mind), so the original addiction was the 'payload' executable file that delivered the destructive coding, but the little sparks of av are my own files that it's now corrupted.

eg the thought 'i've had a tough day' may be factually true, but the beast echo of 'therefore i need/deserve a drink' is an infected addition to a specific train of thought.

or 'this meal is lovely, i must visit here again' is a genuine thought, but 'and try something off the wine list, this food is so good i'd enjoy it even more with a few glasses of wine' is another corrupted process...

best way to avoid reinfecting the whole shebang again is to spot these thoughts and not 'run them' ie not get into a dialogue about them, or try to see if they have any merit - just hit 'quarantine as addictive voice' and proceed with whatever i was doing before.

okayyy.... this post made sense in my head as i was typing it, not so sure it turned out well lol - but my point is, 'structural' with the brain doesn't have to be about physical regions, it can be the structure of your cognitive processes as well, because the end game of any stream of thinking or internal dialogue for your addictive voice will always be 'and this requires a drink.'

'zat make any sense?

debs

Terminally Unique

It does, and Trimpey has compared addiction to a viral suite before.

ElvisInASkirt

This is very good.

Very insightful.

soberlicious

Yes debs, this makes perfect sense and just knowing and knowing well that:
is very helpful for me. The AV is simply trying to do it's "job' so to speak. So it should never surprise me when it is doing just that (ie when a thought comes in). I am not thrown off because the AV is soooo predictable. It's aim is always the same. I simply have to do my job, which is "the answer is still no". I think when *I* remain predictable, the AV comes around less. It's lke my kids...LOL they don't even ask about certain things because "she's just gonna say no". ok, does that make sense??

ElvisInASkirt

I think the greatest danger from the AV (and opportunity) comes from this type of encounter.

AV : Been a while big boy. Bet you could get drunk on a pint and that would be that!
ME : No chance.
AV : *whimpers* How are you going to have fun without a drink tonight?
ME : Oh alright I'll just have 100 liters of the strongest cider available.
AV : ? *feel movement rising from my stomach. excitement*
ME : PSYCH!
AV : *puffs away like the tooth fairy*

Morning Glory

The things you are talking about reminded me of this article.

Emotional Memory Management

DoubtfulDebs

thanks for that link, i just read it through quickly and wow, very useful stuff!

debs

raindancer11

Yes, thanks for that article, MG. I really enjoyed reading it.

newby1961

I have been reading some of the posts and I saw one where you said you would PM someone with some links to AVRT. I am very new to all of this and really have no clue other than what I have read so far.
To give a short history I stopped using heroin 7 years and 3 months ago but I only stopped cause I went on Methadone, but I have never used any other substance this whole time and that does include alcohol which I am also very addicted to. I have never ever abused it and have taken it as Dr prescribed.

With that all said I have tried 3X's to detox off of it and so far have been unsuccesful. I have had lots of abuse from others who feel like I am not sober so I have pretty much isolated myself away from everyone.

I want off this so much but there is a huge physical componet to it that I have not been able to beat.

So any links you could send me I would appreciate but I guess I should first ask if this could help my situation?

Thanks much for listening

Terminally Unique

AVRT is good for maintenance, but methadone being what it is, would still probably require a tapered approach, although I have no experience with it myself. I do know of someone who kicked the heroin and then the methadone after a while, and they have spoken well of Trimpey's approach. I will send you some links on AVRT along with a link to his web site, where you can contact him.

Terminally Unique

I don't particularly care what Jack Trimpey believes with regard to the divine, but since this thread is in the secular forum, and since RR has gone to bat for atheists in the past, this may interest those who are not atheist. I was reading the Journal of Rational Recovery, and I came across a letter someone sent Jack Trimpey with the following question, which he answered.

soberlicious

I never thought about what his spirtual persuasion might be, but actually the fact that he is very devout does not surprise me at all.