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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion-Part 1

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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion-Part 1

Old 09-19-2011, 04:12 PM
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Thanks for clarifying Terminally. I am still very new to the AVRT method!

This website has been a complete godsend in this!!!!!

I spend a few hours a day on here reading old posts on how to apply it and people's experience.
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Old 09-19-2011, 05:23 PM
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TU,
I just have to chime in with a huge "thanks" for clarifying what AVRT is; ....and isn't.

Even though I've been clean and sober since last April, this thread (and everyone contributing) has been so, soooo helpful the last few months.

Everyday, the whole concept has started to gel. These things seem to take a little time (for me) to internalize more fully.

Thanks again !!!
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:06 PM
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Choice and the Big Plan

Something that is commonly heard on recovery forums is "I have a choice to drink or not drink today, and today, I choose not to drink." I'd like to point out how the Big Plan, which is necessary for AVRT, changes that dynamic.

Remember, the Big Plan goes something like this:
"I will never drink/use again, and I will never change my mind."
The Big Plan alters the "today I choose not to drink" attitude, because if you have truly committed to permanent, unconditional abstinence, without the possibility of changing your mind, then you don't have a choice today, or any other day. The Big Plan permanently removes any further drinking/using as an option, thereby putting an end to the daily "should I or should I not drink" debate.

Remember also that the Addictive Voice is any thinking, imagery, or feeling that supports your future use of alcohol, ever. All self-doubt of permanent, unconditional abstinence is the AV itself, the voice of the Beast, IT. The Beast is just doing its job, which is to try and get you to consume more alcohol. Too bad for the Beast if you have made a Big Plan, though, because if you did, then you never drink.

You don't even have the option to drink.
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:51 PM
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TU,
I had one handle bottle of Rum, .....with only a shot gone that sat next to a handle of Scotch (mostly empty)in a cabinet for the last 17 months. After reading about AVRT, and realizing I'm never going to offer any friends poison, anyway;
....this morning I gave the both of them away.

Originally, I felt that full bottle of Rum represented a painful reminder, or something. Now I realize it was just my Addictive Voice. The imagery part , anyway.

Thanks again for clarifying these things.

I often think about the phrase ;

"I will never drink/use again, and I will never change my mind."

Powerful paradigm, indeed !?!
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:05 PM
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Topspin,

If you want to really drive a stake through the Beast, think about this. If addictive desire is not you, but the Beast, then you can decide that you are also perfectly happy to never drink again. It is the Beast that feels deprived and unhappy, not you.

That would be good for you, and bad for the Beast.

If it helps, you can think of it as payback for trying to ruin your life. :-)
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Old 09-20-2011, 10:19 AM
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TU, you've put this far more eloquently than I could have done. Nicely done.
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Old 09-21-2011, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
TU, you've put this far more eloquently than I could have done. Nicely done.
I'll post some more tips or ideas as they come to mind, but if anyone has questions, feel free to ask. If I can't answer a question immediately, I will certainly ponder it and eventually respond.

Unless, of course, someone else comes up with a better answer first.
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Old 09-22-2011, 03:08 PM
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Who's in control here?

Who is in control? You or your Beast?

Conventional wisdom has it that you are powerless over addictive desire (the Beast), but one of the insights of AVRT® is that this is not the case. Your Beast can only generate desire, but it can't actually do anything, only you can. If you are in doubt as to how powerless your Beast actually is, try this simple exercise.

Originally Posted by From "The Art of AVRT," Page 83

Do this right now.

Look at your hand and wiggle your index finger. Go ahead, and do that. Easy enough, right? Now, challenge your mighty Beast, over which you are supposed to be powerless, to wiggle the same finger. Can it? You might feel it struggle inside you, trying to gain control, but now you can see for yourself. Can the Beast wiggle your finger? Of course not. You are safe from your bodily desires! You are safe from yourself!
"The Art of AVRT" ©2010 by Jack Trimpey
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Old 09-22-2011, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
In psychiatry, dissociation is defined as "disruption of the usually integrated functions of consciousness, memory, identity, or perception of the environment." When I use the word "dissociative" to describe AVRT, I am not using it in the strictly clinical sense, as a psychologist would, but in the traditional sense, as in separating, or distancing, from addictive desire.

The meanings are different depending on the context, and dissociation, as used in the clinical sense, is vastly different from the traditional sense. If the term causes you confusion, though, you don't need to think of it as such. As I used it, it does not mean what it would in the context of BPD.
thank you for your answer!!

i'm going to order this book right away. i've always been curious about it, and when i went to my psychiatrist to get on suboxone, he pushed 12 step programs and i asked about rational recovery. of course, he said he doesn't think it is as effective - it sounds like the perfect thing for me and i've always had that inkling in the back of my head. i gave it my all in the 12 step programs for a few months, and while i'm still sober, it's not because of those meetings. i've been sober coming up on 4 months and i only went to meetings about 2 months out of that time.

i need to go back and read through this entire thread, too. i'm so happy to have come across it!!!
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Old 09-22-2011, 07:08 PM
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WOW. i just read through a lot of information on the avrt website and i wish i had done so sooner! oh my god. i feel like something finally clicks! it finally makes sense! reading the descriptions of what recovery groups can cause was so refreshing. this is what i've been saying all along, just didn't have the resources to back it up - people in 12 step programs relapse! and then there are those who never do who do it on their own.

i am SO thankful i saw this thread, because it inspired me to look into the site and pursue this further.
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Old 09-22-2011, 07:28 PM
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Esyla,

Glad to hear it. Once you get the book, feel free to post any questions. In the meantime, you may want to take the free "Crash Course on AVRT" at the Rational Recovery Web Site. As for your psychiatrist discouraging Rational Recovery, this is not unusual, since many people in the counseling professions are themselves members of recovery groups, but will not disclose this to their clients. This creates a conflict of interest, as they will try to refer clients to their own recovery groups.
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Old 09-24-2011, 05:38 AM
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Thanks for starting this thread, TU and to all who posted here. I had read the rational recovery book years ago and have been to the website a number of times over the years. I do prefer his method but hadn't been ready to really stop until this time of my life now. His method is time efficient, inexpensive, treats one like a mature adult, it's private, it's freeing, no conflicts with my faith. Counting days is a snare for me, so it goes well with that thought. So I'm rereading the crash course and moving on. Day whatever. :-)
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:14 AM
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TIP: Relapse Anxiety Grid

There is a very simple, but very important chart on page 190 of "Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction" under the heading "Figure 5. The Relapse Anxiety Grid" which is central to AVRT®. In later RR literature, such as in "The Art of AVRT" (page 117), it is called the AVRT Matrix®.

I wish I could reproduce it here, but it is copyrighted material, and appears not to be available in the Google Books preview. In any case, don't just skip over that page; memorize it and burn it into your mind. It is essentially AVRT for toddlers, it won't take you more than a few minutes to get the hang of it, and you can use it whenever the Beast acts up. Since it is a picture, it is also very easy to recall.
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Old 09-24-2011, 10:26 AM
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Hi Terminally Unique,

I wish I had discovered AVRT when I quit oxycodone in December. Everything about me screamed "NO" when my thoughts turned to going into a rehab group. I'd been there in the past, and I cannot abide by the concepts of the 12 Step programs, even though I think they can be a life saver for people who need group therapy.

After discovering AVRT here through your posts, I discovered I had already done my own recovery in my own way, substituting "addict brain" for "addictive voice". In this manner, I've tried to help a lot of people on the Substance Abuse forum of SR.

My question is this: I feel firm and strong in my own recovery. I looked at the AVRT website, and I am interested in becoming involved, but I don't think I need to pay for a membership or take a class. I'd just like to subscribe at no cost to myself. You are a great asset to this forum, bringing the AVRT concept here for people like me who do not wish to be subjected to dogmatism in our recovery process.

Thanks for being here and bringing AVRT to this forum. I hope it's okay that I have quoted you at least once on the Substance Abuse forum.

FT
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Old 09-24-2011, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by failedtaper View Post
My question is this: I feel firm and strong in my own recovery. I looked at the AVRT website, and I am interested in becoming involved, but I don't think I need to pay for a membership or take a class. I'd just like to subscribe at no cost to myself. You are a great asset to this forum, bringing the AVRT concept here for people like me who do not wish to be subjected to dogmatism in our recovery process.

Thanks for being here and bringing AVRT to this forum. I hope it's okay that I have quoted you at least once on the Substance Abuse forum.
Thanks.

While the Rational Recovery forums are useful, particularly for those who have spent a lot of time in rehabs or recovery groups without success, if you are already securely abstinent, this is not strictly necessary. You could learn AVRT from the book alone, since it is self-contained, and then go on to help others. Just telling people that there is an alternative to expensive addiction treatment can help, though.

Some people learn better through face-to-face instruction, where they can ask questions and receive immediate feedback, which is what "AVRT: The Course" provides. I believe the class is limited to five people at a time, so I imagine that one would get ample attention. Jack Trimpey does respond to inquiries on the subscription forums, though, and for those who are having a difficult time, I suppose it could be useful.

I have seen him put people through the ringer on there, so to speak, and he is quite adept at it. While I have not experienced it myself, judging from his responses on the forums, I expect that a face-to-face session with him would not leave much wiggle room for the Beast. You would probably have to try real hard to tune out.

The real problem, however, is that in today's recovery ecosystem, people are repeatedly told that they can't quit. Employees in rehabs often tell people when they arrive, "look to your left, look to your right, one of you won't be here" or "only one in 20 of you will make it, who will it be?"

This is nonsense, and probably aggravates the problem, since addicted people already feel hopeless.
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:13 PM
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I received this message from someone, and thought it best to respond here, since it may benefit others.

I come on here most days and read all the threads in the secular forum, hoping for a bit more inspiration I guess. My beast is still in control and until I believe I am stronger than it, I guess it will stay that way. It's always saying 'just one more night', you've still got time.
The Beast is talking to you, which is good. You are stronger than your Beast, however, which is just a stupid, dumb animal, and which knows only one answer to every question: drink/use! However, it is powerless, and it can't even wiggle your finger, only you can do that. If you haven't made a Big Plan yet, now is the time to do it.

Whenever you hear the Additive Voice talking to you, trying to coax you, repeat your Big Plan, which includes only five words ("I will never drink again"), and coincides with the number of fingers on your hand. Try saying each word once per finger, so that when you reach the word "never," your middle finger will stick up. A fitting message to the Beast.

Stay in the first pronoun, "I", as in "It wants to drink, but I never drink." Your Beast is not interested in what you have to say, so don't waste your time trying to argue with it or convince it that you shouldn't drink. If you try to argue with it, you are only giving it an opportunity to convince you to drink, so don't play by its rules. The only thing it understands is never.

Over time, as it gets used to its new master (you), it will settle down.
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:32 PM
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I come on here most days and read all the threads in the secular forum, hoping for a bit more inspiration I guess. My beast is still in control and until I believe I am stronger than it, I guess it will stay that way. It's always saying 'just one more night', you've still got time.
One more thing...

You need to realize that all self-doubt is the Addictive Voice, and not just the obvious messages to drink again. For example, the part I put in boldface from your message is also the Addictive Voice. Make a Big Plan for lifetime abstinence from drugs and alcohol, set your confidence level at 100%, recognize any thoughts to the contrary as the AV itself, and you will do fine.
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:51 PM
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What a great thread. Thanks everyone!
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Old 09-24-2011, 07:23 PM
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Had another nightmare about drinking and it kinda set the tone for the day. In the dream I actually enjoyed drinking and was glad I could drink again.

Woke up horrified but still shaken that something like that could invade my thoughts.
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Old 09-24-2011, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ElvisInASkirt View Post
Had another nightmare about drinking and it kinda set the tone for the day. In the dream I actually enjoyed drinking and was glad I could drink again.

Woke up horrified but still shaken that something like that could invade my thoughts.
It depends on how you look at it. In traditional treatment, this would be a sign of imminent relapse. In AVRT, however, it is a sign that the Beast is finished. It has become so weak and pathetic that it must now "indulge" when it has free reign but when you are comatose, and when it couldn't possibly get you to drink.

It is dying... be happy. :-)
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