SunshineSally

I used to but for me, it wasn't a good thing. For others, it might not have the same "stress" it has had on me. Keeping track of the date actually propelled me back to AVRT. I often would drink after feeling relief coming off from a stressful day or time, or when feeling celebratory for whatever reason. So meeting certain "milestones" of sobriety brought lots of nudges from the AV to celebrate, which I inevitably did. However, I got to the point where I was determined to stop drinking. So I decided to go back to AVRT (something I had attempted once or twice before) and this thread has been wonderful (thanks to you, TU!). After a bit of time, I finally really meant my Big Plan. It doesn't matter to me what day I actually stopped because it's unimportant. I've stopped, thank God! It's no one's business about if or when.
If my doctor already knew I had a drinking problem, and I had to see her for a checkup or some other reason, I'd simply and happily tell her that I've stopped. If she asked when, I'd tell her it's been about a month, give or take a couple weeks. If she asked why I don't know the exact date, I'd ask, what does it matter?--I've stopped and I'll never drink again.
And what that means for me now is that even if I knew my exact date of sobriety, it wouldn't pose a problem either.
And...I feel great! Better health, better sleep, more energy. It's good inertia, not the inertia that's hellish.

BobGT

At first, I just knew I had been sober x number of days. After awhile I didn't think of it as often, although I still know my day 1 date.

I try to look at it like I do with Brussels sprouts. I know I'll never eat them again regardless of the situation. And I don't celebrate any Brussels sprouts anniversaries, lol.

freethinking

I guess it might be relevant if you have some very serious health issues related to your drinking, but otherwise I don't see it as a reason to keep track of days if you don't want to.

Personally, I don't tell my dr's sh*t because I don't want it down on paper. I get my liver enzymes, etc checked to make sure that's okay, but that happens anyway when I go in for a yearly checkup and they do bloodwork (i.e. I don't ask them to check my liver enzymes....it happens when I say I want a check up and bloodwork done). Amazingly, this past time, my enzymes were at an okay level even though I was up to 4 bottles of wine a day - although maybe they were lower because this time around I dropped vodka. Who knows...the milk thistle may have helped too when I was sober enough to remember to take it.

Anyway, I'm on the fence about counting sober time. On the one hand, it puts a really bad taste in my mouth because it was such a huge factor in another program I use to be a part of. It made me feel like I would never reach what others had all the time, and I also felt others used it as a way to act superior while still acting like jerks (some, not all). It was always "Oh, that's Bob, he may be harsh but you should listen to what he has to say because he has 30 years...". Really? Because 'Bob' seems like a giant a-hole to me but I guess since he has x amount of years I should excuse that. Not.

I won't ever forget that I stopped drinking last May due to the circumstances in which I made myself stop - and I suppose when I hit a year I may celebrate a little (no, not with alcohol!) by doing something special with my husband and kids because it symbolizes to me us getting our lives back....but other than that, I just leave the "time" thing alone. It's sort of irrelevant - I'm not drunk right now and that's all that matters to me.

soberlicious

It would seem to me if you have a big plan and are securely abstinent forever then counting time and celebrating wouldn't be a problem at all. That's how it is for me.

FT

I think people sometimes use the sober-count as some kind of a time investment that should not be wasted away. While that may be true, it has the reverse effect for someone that relapses. I think it makes it easier for a relapse to turn into a "toot" (a term my mother in law -- long dead now -- used to use for binge drinking). And then for the "toot" to turn into a lifestyle. Hey, I blew MY WHOLE WAD ANYWAY, so why bother stopping until I'm READY?

It also adds shame into the mix to have to admit you've "blown" your accumulated time.

I'll have to admit I do enjoy the realization that I haven't had a drink in a very long time, but that feeling pales compared to the enjoyment I get on a daily basis from the sense of freedom I get by being a non-drinker and non-opiate-user. No chains. No calendars. No restrictions. No decisions. I have enough of that stuff in other parts of my life.

Just my thoughts.

FT

DrivenHeart85

I'm on the fence about day counting. My time in that other program made day counting seem like "sobriety points", whoever had the most points was the one that should be listened to. Some people, no matter how long they've been sober, still just don't make any sense though. lol Plus, after I lost my whole 8 months of sobriety because I drank I felt really insulted...I had a whole 8 months of not touching the stuff! And they told me I was a newcomer again and had to raise my hand in meetings...and it wasn't long after that before I was out the door. What made even less sense was that they don't start you back at the first step after you drink again...I thought it was common sense that if you're doing something in steps that lead to sobriety and you're 3/4's of the way done and drink again that you probably missed something and should start over. Even board games aren't that forgiving. lol But that's a digression into my bad experiences.

Also when I was with that group I remember just sitting and waiting and hoping and planning for the one year mark to get there, as if I was going to be healed or graduate or something. It wasn't healthy at all and it killed my ability to live in the now...which is unhealthy spiritually.

I think it's good to know when you stopped and vaguely where you're at in the scheme of things but a whole world of emphasis should not be placed on it. If you're sitting there each day thinking, "today is day 78, tomorrow is 79, then 80, 81" it sounds kinda sick.

But this is my opinion, not that of Rational Recovery.

freethinking

Yes, I've seen this before a lot too - even on this site in the short amount of time I have been here. people get so caught up in the time aspect they forget about the importance of just not drink, period. That's why I see both sides of the coin on this one.

freethinking

Yeah, I cringe when people say they threw away their "x amount of months/years" because they drank again. You didn't throw it away, you were sober! It's not a contest!!

Terminally Unique

This is true, but AVRT will identify certain thought patterns, which on the surface may seem harmless, as the Addictive Voice. You can bet that while "you" are counting days or celebrating with cake, your Beast is also counting and creating a sense of wonderment that you have gone so very long without your stuff.

Many people often get nervous right before or right after their sober anniversary and some go back to drinking/using around that time; this is why. Since the Beast will naturally fixate on its last buzz like a dog on bacon, I let the Beast count time. But no, it doesn't mean that you will explode into drunkenness if you do count days or celebrate.

DrivenHeart85

I wonder under what circumstances would anyone explode into drunkenness? Maybe if you got pushed into a giant pool of tequila. lol

soberlicious

Yes, TU, I understand. I guess I'm just saying that if one really has a big plan and is adept at identifying the AV, then there is no circumstance that would call for drinking. None. Ever. That includes any time counted or milestone reached. It's not a reason to drink...equal to any other BS the beast pulls.

I plan on celebrating the 5 year mark of my decision to quit, which will be this Feb. Another jump from an airplane is on the agenda. It symbolic because jumping is one of the things I've enjoyed since quitting. It directly relates to my decision to be a nondrinker, because now I have the money, the drive, and the balls to do it...none of which I had when drinking, so that's why I like to do stuff like that around my anniversary of quitting.

Of course, I'll celebrate with some shoe shopping...badass heels probably. But that doesn't have to correlate with a "sobriety date". Any old Tuesday will do. LOL

I do understand why counting time/celebrating causes a problem for some. Same goes for going to bars or being around alcohol (another popular discussion), but I just feel like if one has a big plan and they are ever aware of beast activity and able to dismiss it easily because they have successfully split (I/It) then all this other stuff is moot. I can't see how counting time would be any different than the gajillion other excuses the beast uses to get you to drink. They're all the same, equal in that the goal is the same. So it matters not where I go, or how much cake I eat. There is never a reason to drink. Period.

But, again, anything that causes a problem or leads one to drinking should definitely be a Big Fat No. I am just sharing thoughts from my perspective.

Watcher

Revelation for me tonight. I was doing research on line (I can't stop with some things) and I came across "Moderation Management".

Mr. Beast came out in full force. That f'er liked what I was reading. To the point that I felt uncomfortable.

Then I got to the MM, "guidelines". At that point I heard IT say, "well this practice has a lot of backing, but these "guidelines" they can't be written in stone." In that instant I laughed at IT, remarking that there is no way IT would be happy drinking under those guidelines, it's not enough booze for IT. I then told IT that I do not drink , ever and to go back to ITS corner.


On the one hand, I know engaging it in a dialogue was probably ill advised, but the back and forth was a bit empowering to say the least.

Terminally Unique

Moderation is like Beast heaven, because IT knows that once you have a few drinks, and your judgment is impaired, you will definitely have more. Incidentally, Moderation Management was founded by someone whose Beast did not like the "no more drinking, ever" part of Rational Recovery.

Terminally Unique

There is a thread in the newcomer's forum about "outing" yourself as an alcoholic. We all know that many addicted people will not "get help" because they are afraid that others will find out about their addiction. For any lurkers out there who fit the bill, one of the chief benefits of AVRT is that you don't have to "out" yourself. It is completely private recovery, which you undertake on your own, and you don't have to tell anyone about it unless you want to.

Watcher

TU, I just wanted to let you know I figured out what your user name means through some reading, gave me a chuckle because I identify completely.

I won't post the site as it could be seen as "program bashing".

DrivenHeart85

I remember when I first saw TU's name and avatar on here...I had a lot of recovery-ism in me, so he was to me what a picture of the devil would be like to a Catholic. lol In fact I almost possibly rolled my eyes.

kanamit

According to the above matrix any negative feelings associated with abstaining are the Beast's—and any positive feelings are the Abstinence Commitment Effect (ACE).

If you feel some unhappiness about quitting, is it possible to turn that into the ACE? I find the ACE comes periodically but is out of my control as do negative feelings.

DrivenHeart85

Here's an interesting thought...

I listen to music that "serenades my Beast". Where I live, it's either the country's Top 40, where the songs insinuate, "Get drunk so I can rape you" or country music which says, "Get drunk so we can make love". Thinking country music was the lesser of two evils, that's what I've been listening to. But if the Beast could write music, it would write country songs..."It's 5 'O Clock Somewhere" is just screaming alcohol dependence. lol

Has anyone run into this music problem? I'll never drink again but I certainly don't want to send music messages to my Beast that drinking is a good time and highly advocated.

In all honesty, I need my iPod to come back to life! Or finally get an iPhone so I can select the songs I listen to rather than wake up to drunk-athon radio music. Seriously, the culture I live in just makes me want pull my hair out sometimes.

Watcher

One very good reason to stop listening to commercial radio. And trust me, it's mostly commercials whether set to a beat or not.

kanamit

What is important to me is that, if used correctly, so-called "triggers" actually pour petrol onto the flames of AVRT.

I don't spend a great deal of time listening to music but I listen/watch to huge amounts of audiobooks, radio shows, DVDs, films, etc as I spend all day, every day at a computer. I love watching and listening to programmes and films that involve drinking as it is a way of torturing the Beast. The way I see it that if you whet its appetite with ideas of drinking and don't drink, it's an act of cruelty to the Beast.

For me it is crucial to never avoid any situation that involves drinking. If I say, don't go there because there is alcohol, I'm telling myself that I (not the Beast) can't take it. And if you ever inadvertently find yourself in front of alcohol your Beast will say. Oh well, you didn't plan for this, it's not your fault, so fill your boots. There is always loads of alcohol in our house and I go to pubs and dinner parties all the time.

Does that make any sort of sense?