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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 2

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Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion Part 2

Old 10-26-2011, 05:32 PM
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Beast attack...huh that sneaky thing. I was sitting on my couch and eating my chicken quesadilla tonight. I had a roommate once that would make them all the time and she inspired me back then to like them too. I was heavy into my drinking back then and haven't really made a chicken quesadilla since I lived there. Funny thing is as I was eating it my memory flashed back to that time and I felt sooooo happy and relaxed like I was back in that kitchen at night, sneaking in and out of my bedroom to grab more beers from the fridge. Drinking was such a good time back then, I was skinny, had a dating life, friends and still managed to escape reality every night and hide in my bedroom drinking beers and watching Comedy Central without a care in the world. Anyway, while remembering this all I heard, "I can get that feeling back right now. I can just go get some beer and it'll be back like in the good old days. Sure, I can never get those days back, but if I drink it'll be the closest thing! It'd be so great just to pretend that nothing bad exists again." And then I started to think of where I could get some money for beer and snapped back out of it. I restated my Big Plan and then heard "But WHY are you never going to drink again?" At first I tried to explain myself and then decided it doesn't matter WHY and I responded, "I made that Plan during a time of clarity about the problems booze has caused me and I'm fully committed to sticking to it no matter what. There doesn't need to be a WHY. I'm just never drinking again. Period."

Sometimes I feel like the AV gets a stronghold on my thoughts which is why it's hard to come up with a WHY for my Big Plan; which is why I just resort so saying there just doesn't need to be a why, I made the plan and I'm sticking to it no matter what.

Anyway, how evil of my Beast to throw me in a mental time machine. It must be getting really agitated now that's it's not getting any of "its precious". Ahahaha, sucker.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by flyawayfromhere View Post
I restated my Big Plan and then heard "But WHY are you never going to drink again?" At first I tried to explain myself and then decided it doesn't matter WHY and I responded, "I made that Plan during a time of clarity about the problems booze has caused me and I'm fully committed to sticking to it no matter what. There doesn't need to be a WHY. I'm just never drinking again. Period."

Sometimes I feel like the AV gets a stronghold on my thoughts which is why it's hard to come up with a WHY for my Big Plan; which is why I just resort so saying there just doesn't need to be a why, I made the plan and I'm sticking to it no matter what.
April,

Recognition, and then separation, is the key.
AV --> Beast = bark --> dog

When you hear/feel/see your AV, recognize it as the Beast squawking. If you don't want to, you don't need to explain anything to IT, because you are in control over IT.
A = I/IT (Abstinence = I over IT)

You seem to be recognizing it, but perhaps not quite separating. For example, when you heard your AV, you could have applied "Addiction Diction" to transpose it.

AV:
"I can get that feeling back right now. I can just go get some beer and it'll be back like in the good old days."
AV Transposed:
"IT can get that feeling back right now. IT can just go get some beer and it'll be back like in the good old days."

Next time your Beast acts up, try thinking "IT wants a drink, but I don't drink. OK, Ms. Beast, if you want a drink so badly, why don't you go get it then?"

Otherwise, not bad.
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:34 PM
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Thanks TU. I always forget the addiction diction for some reason. I still see the urge to drink as me and I'm not fully dissociating. I just kind of refer to it as my addicted side or that's my addiction acting up. There's a part of me thinks it's a little silly to act like part of me is not a part of me.
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:30 AM
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I'm starting to feel a lot more confident now. Three very important things I've learned for myself are:
  1. Don't count time. At first I thought this wouldn't make a difference but actually it does (for me anyway). When you start thinking, I'll be at a month, 90 days, a year or whatever, you're almost inviting the Beast to provide a counter attack. It might try to convince you you deserve a 'reward' for beating your last period of abstinence or that it can't have been a problem in the first place. AVRT's power is in its simplicity. And it's so much simpler to say, I will never drink again, and that includes today. When you start contextualising it with dates, targets, etc you lose the power of now.
  2. Don't enter into debates with the Beast. That's really where I've struggled. The thought of catching yourself taking on the Beast persona is a strange concept but one that you really need to get your head around. An immoral act you find utterly repellent may cross your mind for a split second but you would never entertain the thought of acting on it—or getting into a debate. For me, trying to make drinking one of those acts in the key to success.
  3. Make use of Shifting. In the early days even though you will never drink again because you don't want to, you will feel things that indicate otherwise. At first, even though I was using the Addiction Diction and recognised the voices as the Beast, I didn't so much with the feelings. The Shifting exercise, however, engrains in you that Beasts have feelings too. There's also that anxiety grid with the pluses and minuses on.

Just my thoughts…
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:33 AM
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I think my not dissociating is just me being a newbie...there was a bit of panic last night when that thought entered my head (that was the strongest I'd experienced other than just fleeting thoughts) and I had to get my bearings straight just to re-affirm my Big Plan...I have faith that I will improve with time.

Thanks for your post Kanamit. I like number 2. I can list several horror movies I've seen that supply me with many morally repellent acts I would never even debate in my head about doing. I tend to get stuck in debate with my Beast too but there is no sense in doing so. Kinda like the back and forth with parents and kids...if you get into a debate with them, you're stooping to their level and engaging them, giving them the opportunity to fight for their side of the argument.

Now, here's a question I'd like to see AVRT users answer, what in the world is up with the drunk/drinking dreams? Jeeze! Is this my midbrain getting its way when I sleep? lol
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Old 10-27-2011, 06:10 AM
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Whenever I dream I'm drinking I wake up and feel a huge sense of relief. If I didn't I'd start to worry.

I concur with Allen Carr that such dreams means almost nothing.
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Old 10-27-2011, 06:25 AM
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Yeah, I feel the relief too and annoyance of the dream for feeling so real. lol I ordered Allen Carr's book from Amazon and am now very impatiently waiting for it to arrive in the mail!
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:34 AM
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The Allen Carr book is great for readjusting your perception of the so-called benefits of alcohol. For me, it never worked long term but if you use Allen Carr's EasyWay as your moral reason for making a Big Plan and AVRT to implement it I cannot see how anyone can fail.

In an ideal world I think a complete book that combines The Easy Way to Stop Drinking/Control Alcohol with Part II of RR:TNC would make a very potent manuscript.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by flyawayfromhere View Post
Now, here's a question I'd like to see AVRT users answer, what in the world is up with the drunk/drinking dreams? Jeeze! Is this my midbrain getting its way when I sleep? lol
With AVRT, drinking dreams are a definite sign of good progress. It means that the Beast is fully on the defensive, and has to "indulge" when you are asleep and cannot do its bidding. When you wake up from a drinking dream, the AV may try to inject doubt, as if the dream were a bad omen. Ignore the AV, restate your Big Plan, and rejoice. It means that the Beast is getting weaker.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:58 AM
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Kanamit makes a good point about the shifting exercises and the relapse anxiety grid on page 190, which is essentially AVRT in a picture. Memorize that picture. I know I've mentioned this in an earlier post, but if the plus and minus signs don't mean much to you, replace "+" with and "-" with and you'll get the idea.
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by flyawayfromhere View Post
I think my not dissociating is just me being a newbie...
I just caught this. With AVRT, there are no newcomers and old-timers, only people who have made a Big Plan for unconditional abstinence, and those who have not. I say this not as criticism, but only to point out that if you are confident that you will never drink again and never change your mind, you are as recovered as anyone else. There is no deference to the wisdom of people with more sober time, and that includes me.

On that note, I know that people are reading this thread, because I keep getting private messages about it. To any lurkers out there interested in AVRT, feel free to join the discussion.
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Old 10-28-2011, 10:40 AM
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Well, I meant newbie as in the way that I haven't used the tools as much as others may have...not to say that I'd end up drinking anyway. That was my first real "My AV is trying to take me out" experience. So I panicked and used the Big Plan reaffirmation even though Addiction Diction and the Shifting were also available to me. Just like in the book how they urge you to practice and how this technique gets easier with time, that's kind of what I was referring to. Maybe there's no more "mysterious epiphanies" but I believe that you can sharpen your sword so to speak.

Also at times, I lack self confidence, so when you said what I should've done, (there's a psych term for this) I "somethinged" and said I was a newbie so as to deflect my shame from not being perfect. I'm really tired and that's what I'm psychoanalyzing myself "out loud" on the internet...I need sleep and I might not make it to 5:30pm. lol

And yes, lurkers please come talk. If you're interested in AVRT, posting and getting responses from others is very helpful...especially if you're a "runaway" from more common methods like me. There's no such thing as a stupid question...well there is, but not when you're learning something new anyway. lol
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Old 10-28-2011, 10:50 AM
  # 213 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by flyawayfromhere View Post
And yes, lurkers please come talk. If you're interested in AVRT, posting and getting responses from others is very helpful...especially if you're a "runaway" from more common methods like me.
Runaways are especially welcome, since AVRT is the underground railroad of recovery.
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:01 PM
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So, TU, you are kind of like Harriet Tubman, no?
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Old 10-28-2011, 02:49 PM
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Beast rumblings after my coworker called and talked to me about how she wished she could get an epidural once a month. lol She was just saying how relaxing it was...and the AV was saying in my head, "Oh, "I" get that kind of thing from alcohol...see how normal wanting to feel like that is? Even "my" super straight laced coworker likes a heavy dose of relaxation." Which got "me" thinking..."Well, am "I" ready to have a reversal of intent yet?"

Huh? Sure...my AV has to play on the one gray area of the method.

Which makes me think, if you can have a reversal of intent at the same time you have a Big Plan in place, how can Trimpey say there's nothing that can break a Big Plan? Yes, this is all AV typing (it's been a crazy week and the Beast is excited to poke at me with ideas for a "stress cure" but I don't intend to go about breaking my Big Plan...I don't much prefer the self-imprisonment of addiction), but I am kinda curious how that works anyway as long as that ******* brought it up...
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Old 10-28-2011, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by soberlicious View Post
So, TU, you are kind of like Harriet Tubman, no?
Harriet Tubman lamented that she could have freed a thousand more slaves if only they knew that they were slaves. I don't lament the fact that some people choose not to summarily quit their addiction, and that I can't save them from themselves. I just point out the escape hatch, but the rest is up to them. There are no conductors in AVRT, and you are on your own to either sink or swim. No one is going to hold your hand.
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Old 10-28-2011, 02:59 PM
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Not even little arm floaties? LOL
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Old 10-28-2011, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by flyawayfromhere View Post
Which makes me think, if you can have a reversal of intent at the same time you have a Big Plan in place, how can Trimpey say there's nothing that can break a Big Plan? Yes, this is all AV typing (it's been a crazy week and the Beast is excited to poke at me with ideas for a "stress cure" but I don't intend to go about breaking my Big Plan...I don't much prefer the self-imprisonment of addiction), but I am kinda curious how that works anyway as long as that ******* brought it up...
Although the suggested wording of the Big Plan is fairly concise and airtight, it is nevertheless up to you to make a Big Plan that will stick. You have correctly recognized this analysis of the reversal of intent as your addictive voice, and you have the tools to deal with it now. What you do with that knowledge is entirely up to you.

Drinking again anyway is certainly an option, but you wouldn't be able to post "I had a relapse, I don't know what happened, the drinks just magically poured themselves down my throat" if you did. You would have to post "I recognized my AV, and I chose to drink anyway, which means that I did not mean it when I made a Big Plan."

You can probably guess how I would respond to such a post, but I'll just note that using AVRT between binges, without a solid Big Plan, is entirely self-defeating. You may as well choose tentative, trial basis sobriety in that case, with the ensuing white knuckles and all.

Best choices to you.
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Old 10-28-2011, 04:01 PM
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I don't think I could've made a more solid Big Plan unless I tattooed it on my forehead...which means I choose to take a nap. lol
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:03 AM
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Really glad I found this thread, it makes sense to me.

After two weeks of feeling fine I had a beast attack last night which I gritted my teeth through. All the ususal messages : 'You've had a tough week, have a drink', 'you've made good money, have a drink', 'it's Friday, have a drink'.

I didn't drink as I will never drink again, but white knuckling isn't easy.

No more need to grit my teeth with some of the things I am learning here. There is a rational answer and I am going to use it.
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