Aussiebutterfly

True!:

Dalek

I disagree, Robby. We have flushed out and exposed another Beast hole, which, even though it may not apply to you personally, is quite common, judging from some of the questions received. Heck, Allen Carr even wrote a whole book on changing your thinking to see alcohol as poison, or at least something that doesn't give you any benefits at all.

If it takes some back and forth to get there, so be it. AVRT discussion is not a "sharing" phenomenon, after all. We actively identify the addictive voice in other people's thinking and help them flush the Beast out from hiding. The Beast is indeed a "dumbass," insofar as it is stupidly single-minded, but its power comes from operating in secrecy. Once exposed, it is defeated, which is precisely why you are now able to see it as a dumbass -- in hindsight.

Dalek

This thread is a remarkable phenomenon, given that it is essentially a tiny island situated in a vast sea of addictive voice and recovery-ism. In this setting, AVRT was extremely susceptible to misrepresentation, misinterpretation, and bastardization that can destroy its potency and natural appeal. The odds were heavily stacked against it from the onset, but this experiment has somehow survived, mostly by sticking to the spirit of AVRT.

Whether or not that spirit is maintained remains to be seen, but this thread has no doubt reached people who would not have known about AVRT otherwise. It would indeed be a shame for this thread to now collapse in upon itself, or to deviate from purpose. Personally, I have faith that if people stick to the model that has worked thus far, that it can continue to thrive. For those of you lamenting the good old days, I leave you with this as food for thought.

RobbyRobot

Hey, Dalek, I made that comment much earlier on, lol, in response to Tippingpoint making an observation. After my comment, we got into it much more, and I thought so, and I thanked you, that we were having a great discussion.

And yeah, I've always thought this thread was, and is, awesome! And I'll be enjoying more discussions I'm sure as I learn more about AVRT, and offer my contributions to the thread.

RobbyRobot

Totally.

I was just feeling concern for Elphaba, with my comment, and I hope things are alright with her and the thread.

:ghug3

Aussiebutterfly

:ghug3

I hope she is doing great too. I miss TU also of course! Very good at showing how AVRT works.

Elphaba

Lol....l apologize, I had considerable beast activity yesterday. In retrospect, my last post was my AV. Discussion is good, it still is a great thread.

Saskia

I feel a lot like a babe in the woods while reading this thread. I probably won't be posting much for awhile since I'm still reading the RR book and working my way through TUs comments.

I was disturbed to read on a different thread on SR that I've been following referring to "struggling" with the beast and referring to it as "he". These both seem to me to be the opposite of what RR is about. It seems to me that it is in separating "it" from I rather than struggling with it (the beast) that enables us to not drink.

Am I understanding this correctly?

Thank you!

RobbyRobot

Hi Saskia,

I've read some of your posts. You already have a good understanding, imo, and even in your above post, you've correctly stated how seperation of ourselves from our AV is what AVRT is about. Awesome.

I wonder why you are seeking more affirmations? I detect some variance of AV in your above post.

I'm asking this in all earnest. And I also noticed in some recent post of yours, stating how you like the direct talk of AVRT. Me too.

Dalek

You are correct. IT, the Beast, wants to drink and struggles with abstinence, you do not. The AV will try to convince you that you are IT and that IT is you, but separation is the key. Let the Beast struggle, and realize that you are not struggling, even though you feel it struggle. Just observe it, and be glad it suffers. The Beast doesn't care if you suffer or die, after all, so what do you care if that thing suffers?

I advise not referring to the Beast as a "he" or a "she" -- it is not a person, but an enemy within, a parasite with no conscience whatsoever.

Robby is correct. The Beast wants to put off quitting for as long as possible, and your AV may tell you that you need to learn every little nuance of AVRT before you will 'get it', or that there is always something else you need to learn before you can put the ideas to use.

In AVRT, all self doubt is Addictive Voice. Read through the materials, set your confidence level for lifetime abstinence arbitrarily at 100%, recognize all self-doubt as your Addictive Voice, and you’ll do fine.

Saskia

Thanks, Robby and Dalek! Yes, I understand your point about wanting to understand AVRT to the fullest before using it would be beast activity. I did start using it in spite of missing pieces both because I felt it was important for me to move on and also because it reminds me so much of when I quit smoking almost 30 years ago. I used similar constructs and after a few months have had absolutely no cravings or interest in ever smoking again. So I can relate to AVRT much more easily than other methods.

I do not feel powerless nor do I feel that I will always be a "recovering alcoholic". Using AVRT makes me feel more competent and in charge of my future.

I reached out to make sure I wasn't heading in the wrong direction ... Especially given some other comments I have read.

Thanks again for sharing your insights.

RobbyRobot

Well said. Awesome.

:ghug3

Dalek

What if you did have 'cravings' or an interest in smoking? What if the desire to smoke came back? What then?

Does your plan to quit drinking depend on the absence of desire?

What if the desire to drink never goes away?

Is the presence of desire bad?

Is the absence of desire good?

imaquitter

I'm new in this thread. I have just recently revisited the website after about 18 months off but the site never sent me my password email so I made a new acct. I've been reading these 4 threads for 2 days now lol. I've only drank once in the past 2 weeks but of course it had to be on the 5th of July, me alone again patting myself on the back for making it though the 4th, haha.

I really wish these threads were around when i was here about 2 years ago because its really helpful and makes more sense than other programs. The funny thing is, this is almost exactly how I had quit smoking in 2010 and I never thought about trying it for alcohol. Also, since I kept drinking I eventually started smoking again since it's really hard not to smoke when drinking. It's just what I always and most people do when drinking. Maybe I never really wanted to make the commitment though since quitting smoking is much more difficult to do short term and I actually did that for months. I have to quit drinking first before I can quit smoking again.

I was in the Navy for 20 years until 2010. I always knew I could go for weeks without drinking because we can't drink on a ship, so even until now I can always stop for 3 days or a week but I ALWAYS do the "Vertigo" thing that was mentioned before here and then end up drinking for another month before stopping for a week again. Usually after several days of being aware and rejecting my desire to drink I'll find myself in a good mood and in a Supermarket buying groceries so why not just get a 6 pack? I already know I can go a while without the alcohol anyway, right?

It really seems like I've just been trying to prove that I can do it and then go back into my hole for another month drinking. I only drink beer but I can't stop once I get past 2-3 beers and I'll drink that final 8-10 beers in about 2 hours just guzzling. I've been on this merry-go-round since my first marriage around 1997 or so except the original 6 pack a night has grown to 10-15 occasionally 18, and this is usually 6-8% stuff. Also I almost never drink 2 nights in a row but I know I still can't be a normal moderate drinker at all.

Back in 1998 I was forced into a Military AA class for several weeks as a condition for future employment due to a DUI and I've always known that type of "program" will never work for me. I even failed and got kicked out of that program (its not really AA, its just what the military uses to force us to quit) and served my final 13 years in the Navy under the condition that I would never have an alcohol "incident" again and somehow I hid it from everyone the whole time.

I always drink ALONE and have always tried to hide my problem from everyone (except my 2nd wife who for some reason put up with it all that time) so why be in a big recovery group like I'm in a bar full of drunks trying to quit?

Anyway, I really enjoy reading all these posts and I'm sure that this can work for me as long as I commit to it and get off the see saw. I might not be around again today since I'm going to take my RV to the beach to get away from this crazy heat here in So Cal lol.

Dalek

Nonsense. That's just your Beast trying to hold onto the ciggies. If you want to, you can just as easily quit both the alcohol and the cigarettes at once.

So what's the holdup? Are you going to get off the see saw, or not?

imaquitter

I hear ya, it's just that even though I've done it once before quitting smoking scares me a lot more than quitting drinking. I quit drinking all the time because of my former job and I know that AVRT will get me over the top with the one problem I did have with it. It worked perfectly last night at the store, I just laughed at it and said haha, no dice bro, I don't drink lol.

I'm pretty sure that's why the Navy even today still allows smoking on ships even though there have been so many fires because of it. People would find a way to do it anyway. It's much more addictive, at least it is for most people. Everybody can stop drinking for a while but most of them go crazy when told to put out the cigs so I'll just have to build it up more to do that. The worst is always waking up in the morning and not having that first one. When I quit last time that was the only time of the day that I'd almost give in but I was so busy at work doing 15 hour days and I hadn't drank for a month either so my head was clear and I stuck with it.

Anyway, I'm not drinking anymore and I won't start again. Thanks for the help here. I can read all this repeatedly too but I have no idea where to buy the book locally, I'd hate to have to wait for it to come in the mail.

Aussiebutterfly

I had to wait a few weeks for my copy of the book imaquitter so order it as soon as you can. It's worth having around. You may even get one second hand of ebay or somewhere.

My husband quit smoking using some medication from the doctor. Maybe you could try that or patches etc as well as AVRT to help you through.

MeredithD1

The books can be hard to find so I got mine from Amazon.

Amazon.com: Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction (9780671528584): Jack Trimpey: Books

Saskia

Thanks for your thought-provoking questions! Somehow the rare feelings about smoking are on the order of "oh..it would be nice to be able to have a cigarette....oops...no, that's not something I want to do again". I've had a lot of practice with self-hypnosis, visualization and mindfulness meditation. I seem to be able to quickly banish thoughts about smoking and they now only rarely come up.

I don't think my plan depends on the absence of desire. My experience when I didn't drink for 14years was that, after the worst of the cravings were over, like with smoking I could banish those thoughts.

I don't see the presence or absence of desire as being "good" or "bad". It is what it is and after I'm past the worst, I know it will become easier to manage with time. I did learn from this relapse that I can't become complacent and need to keep in mind that the beast may be banished but can sneak in if I am not watchful.

I'm always receptive to suggestions. I'm still very much in early learning mode about AVRT and have much more to read and digest.

Saskia

Dalek, I am still digesting your comments/questions and became aware of the fact that I had previously said that I had absolutely no cravings for cigarettes once I got past the hard part. That is not true, lol!

What I finally realized is that I do occasionally have minor cravings but I seem to be able to disengage from those thoughts so quickly that I barely notice it. With past PTSD I got to be pretty good at dissociation! The other thing with cigs --- none of my friends and acquaintances smoke and I'm rarely around anyone who does.