brynn

Zen...I tried what Nons was talking about last weekend.....thinking if I could recognize my AV then I could choose to drink and it wasn't like was being duped ? (Or something to that effect). Anyway....I drank, felt like ****, betrayed myself, blah blah blah. It was ridiculous and I knew it then and I know it now.

We've talked enough for me to know you're not happy when you drink. What you share here, the negatives, are the bigger part of your drinking (from what I've gathered about you) than the positives. If it was something you truly enjoyed EVERY time, you wouldn't be here and you wouldn't be reading RR.

I would never push you to do something you're not totally sure about, but You know that as long as you keep the door to drinking open you are going to feel conflicted and unsettled and I would love to see you have some peace in your life, dear zen.

Wholesome

I ended up drinking last night. My murdered friends trial started yesterday and it's so gruesome and disturbing what happened to her, reading about it really rattled me...... Plus my AV was running rampant over reading the book. In full rebellion mode! I sincerely wish I hadn't...... never good to pour beer on top of feelings of grief.

Gonna finish the book and do some introspection. Start putting the tools I'm learning to use. Of all the drugs I've done alcohol is by far the worst and most insidious.

SDH73

Hey, Zen. I read that article about your friend. I'm really sorry. That's just unthinkable. I agree with you, though, pouring a depressant on top of natural grieving can amplify the emotion.

I guess it really comes down to whether or not alcohol is making problems for you. Would your life be better without it? Pros and cons. Personally, as much as I thought I enjoyed drinking there aren't really any "pros" for me. I could think of plenty of excuses, but no actual good reasons.

Something to consider is that people who do not have a drinking problem don't feel at odds with themselves about drinking. They do or they don't and that's that.

Anyway, glad you're reading the book. Great read.

Wholesome

Yeah people who don't have a drinking problem don't drink out of rebellion at the notion of quitting! The irony of it did occur to me as I was pouring that first beer.

SDH73

Typically I will read someone's SR signature once, then sort of overlook it after that unless it's big and bold and in my face. I just reread yours, zen. Do you still stand by that?

Not trying to be pushy here, be true to yourself. Just an observation/question.

Wholesome

Well not drinking is absolutely the only way to control it. So yes I do stand behind it.

Nonsensical

If there was someone making book on that possibility I would have bet on it happening. I don't know anyone who put drinking back on the table and then didn't exercise the option the same day.

We are all unique individuals. Our Beasts, however, have much in common.

Be well.

Wholesome

Yup I'm a turkey for letting my going against my better judgement and allowing my beast to win the inner debate the other day. It was silly of me. It was not an appropriate time to drink. I shouldn't be drinking alone, or to numb my feelings.

I'm still not sure about whether or not I'm ready to make the commitment of a BP. I want to explore if I am capable of being sober the majority of the time but still drink on certain occasions that are planned in advance. What I've learned over these last months is that I enjoy being sober. I used to drink every day so the only time that I felt good was when I started drinking again. And I know that I'm better off to have none than to try to have just a few.

It's a journey....... like Elvis said, "It's your baby, you rock it."

Nonsensical

I disagree. A turkey's frontal cortex is puny next to yours. A turkey would have no option but to give in to it's beastly drive. You are quite human, and you have the resources available to defeat the beast.

If someone were making book on whether or not you were eventually going to get this sorted out and live happily ever after, I'd bet that you will.

Wholesome

I just realized after finishing the book that this winter when I chose to go back to drinking that it was my AV that was making me feel so depressed. I never made the connection back then. It was telling me that I was tense, and sad, and that I'd never feel pleasure again, that I needed a release, that life was dull and hopeless and pointless.... that was the internal dialogue going for some time before I finally fell for it and picked back up. And just like that my depression was cured! I actually remember thinking and ever saying to my bf how much of a happier person I am when I drink.... it make a better person, I really thought that.

What an insight!

At the time I was only looking for obvious thoughts of drinking..... I wasn't self aware enough to be thinking of my moods as a indicator of AV. I thought I was depressed because I'd given myself brain damage but now I see that my AV was exploiting my emotions to get an opportunity to drink.

Now that I know I'll be better prepared this time around

brynn

I ordered the book, just waiting for it to arrive. Until last weekend I was hesitant to read it and I'm not sure why. All I know is that last weekend was a huge disaster and I need to reinforce my thinking.

One thing I'm struggling with right now is making a Big Plan for pills. I recommitted to my Big Plan for alcohol but the pills are a different story.

Some people say you can't be truly sober if you're still taking another substance and I've subscribed to that idea before, too, but now I'm not so sure.
Not having a BP for pills doesn't negate my BP for alcohol. So I can still consider myself abstinent, right?

RobbyRobot

Absolutely consider yourself abstinent. Pills taken for your medical conditions are an entirely different plane of reality. Be at peace with your abstinence of alcohol. You'll learn all about AV and how to best make use of the simplicity in the technique offered by AVRT. No worries.

freshstart57

Long overdue for a bump to the top.

brynn

Thanks Freshstart!

Seeing Robby's post there is kind of startling. I was just thinking of him the other day and how he touched my life in such an incredible way right when I needed it most! He was such an encourager to everyone in this community. Rest in Peace, dear Robby
Xo

Algorithm

I was reading through the forums, and thinking about some of the difficulties people have with recognizing their own Addictive Voice. Many of the more subtle forms of AV are often a consequence or variation on the idea that it just can't be this simple, that something is missing from the puzzle.

One variation of AV that initially flew past me was the idea that I needed to really study and practice AVRT in order increase my chances of success. This sounds perfectly reasonable at first glance, but it also contained embedded within it the idea that I might never fully "get" AVRT, and therefore might not succeed.

tursiops999

Algorithm, thanks for that post. I think I am just beginning to get my mind around the concept that AV includes any doubts about my success at staying alcohol-free, and any idea that I have to do something special to sustain sobriety. Or that staying alcohol-free might be too "difficult" under some circumstances.

So the AV says "Sure, you were happily sober while you had a good job and had your stress under control, but now that you're job hunting, and your mom is showing signs of dementia, and your house is all torn up from construction ... it's much harder now. You'll probably have to do a bunch of things to make sure you don't 'relapse', like study more books, post a lot on SR, etc". The AV uses fear about relapsing, and fear of feeling pain, as a way in?

It's a tricky distinction for me. I think that's because there are things I can do that make my life happier and more contented -- exercise, stay in touch with friends, meditate, keep a gratitude list, post on SR, read, etc -- these are all really good things that I can and should do. But none of those is actually required to keep me sober. I can go to my grave without ever taking another drink. How I feel in the meantime (happy and contented, or stressed and unhappy and hating life) is up to me -- I choose to take positive actions to build happiness. But that doesn't mean that the alternative to that is drinking.

I know people have posted this before, but it is taking time for me to really get this. I think because my AV really does not want me to believe I can go to my grave without drinking alcohol ever again.

Algorithm

One prime function of the Addictive Voice is to exaggerate the difficulty and suffering that discontinuing alcohol and other drugs will cause. At first, this serves to keep people from taking the initial leap out of addiction, and later, to inject doubt about continued abstinence.

The Addictive Voice generates relapse anxiety. Another way to look at it is that relapse anxiety is AV, plain and simple, because it suggests the possible future use of alcohol. It fits the definition of AV.

Of course it doesn't. In the Beast's analysis, you will definitely drink again, and the chief function of the addictive voice is to guarantee opportunities to drink. One of the ways it does this is by using siege tactics to undermine your confidence and to wear you down.

Recognize it as the AV itself, and you will be fine.

jazzfish

This was a huge realization for me. One day I just realized that any requirement I had for sobriety would become an excuse to drink. It would be so easy to tell myself "I haven't done X for a week, better drink now." It just didn't make any sense to me.

Not drinking is a non event for me. What do I have to do? Nothing. What do I have to not do? Nothing. Drinking just doesn't exist in this space I call now.

Algorithm

I found this interview with Jack Trimpey today from the "Your Daily Diet" blog, which I hadn't heard before. The blog's author, Sandra Elia, used AVRT for her own Binge Eating problem, and Jack discusses the basic aspects of AVRT. Some of this has been covered in this thread, but this interview is a nice supplement.

Here is the link to the audio of Sandra's interview with Jack. It is about 45 minutes in length, and can be streamed or downloaded.

January 6, 2016: Episode 8 – Rational Recovery

sainos

I read that bit someone posted about drink "numbing feelings" that would be my excuse to drink lots of times. But reading Trimpey, has made me realise, it never numbed my feelings! At first alcohol is a stimulant, bringing on feelings of Euphoria. Thats not numb! Then as you drink more it acts as a depressant, making you feel more relaxed, that's not numb! And as I largely drank for the effect I got when I started drinking, that means it was my BEAST after the euphoria drinking brings, not after the feeling of "nothing"