Sohard

I hadn't thought of it this way. Yes, at four months I haven't yet created a life without drinking. Sometimes I find myself going to bed at insanely early hours because I literally don't know what to do with myself. I need to really work on creating a life without drinking, not just on not drinking.

And thanks for everyone's advice. I prefer to ask for it here, in the Secular Connections section under this AVRT thread, because this philosophy really struck a chord with me. Nothing against AA at all, but it just doesn't strike a chord with me, and I feel if I ask questions in the Alcoholism section I'm often directed to an AA meeting or the Big Book. Of course I know full well I haven't mastered AVRT or gotten even close, but learning about both it (and, actually, the Freedom Model) are the only reasons I'm 4 months free today. So, thanks for everyone's advice. What a RELIEF it is every time I read something that helps me nudge even closer to a peaceful acceptance.

dwtbd

Sohard
Don't ever forget You Did This, you may have learned somethings about AVRT, ect , but not having 'mastered' anything doesn't mean You haven't already Done It! Congrats! and Kudos! on that , Yeah ?!

Not feeling 'like a nondrinker' is the AV , whether or not you 'feel' 'like one' surely has no bearing on whether or not you are one , yeah ?

Getting a better handle or 'mastering' AVRT ( it is a technique) leads to being able to 'accept' or 'become happier' with residual desire.

Do you understand what GT is saying in post #379 ?
reading or rereading RR:TNC may help brush up on the terms and concepts, just remember your beast will be reading along too looking for loopholes .

Not getting sloshed all the time has made me reading habit well .. possible , again lol. The Rise and Fall of D.OD.O. has made my early to bed but not so much sleep thing a wizz bang of late

Sohard

Yes, it was good for me to read post #379. My AV often tells me “this is a load of b.s.....it is YOU that wants the drink (not ‘it’)”), but I know that this is the lie I’m being fed. I mean, intellectually I know it, but I fight to stop questioning that fact.

soberlicious

You aren't questioning that fact, It is.

Here's the crux for me, plain and simple I see it as two truths. I don't want alcohol and the problems it brings for me. It does want alcohol and isn't concerned about the consequences. I have one agenda, it has another. The two agendas will never be reconciled and agreed upon. They don't have to be. I have the hands, so I win. It's got pretty much nothing except a bunch of talk that can seem scary and powerful, until it's exposed for what it really is- just a bunch of nonsense.

Sohard

I've been thinking on it. I think a lot of my time prior to quitting drinking was spent not just drinking but the build-up to it. I remember practically being giddy when the day was over and my zone out time could begin. I agree with the thoughts earlier that I was excited for a false promise. And I admit I feel much more relaxed not drinking than I ever did drinking. Maybe the issue is one of literally being trained (like Pavlov the dog) to every day practically want to have a build up of a need like alcohol and then the satisfaction of meeting that need. "Aaaaaahhhhh. Home with the wine...." It's super not having that need to satisfy, that itch to scratch, anymore. But it's also bizarre when you've been satisfying it and itching it for over 20 years. It's like I'm not used to living at peace but also without the bursts of joy (even if it was false) I'd get when always seeking something, getting it, seeking something, getting it, seeking something, gettting it, ...

dwtbd

It’s interesting you bring up Pavlov. From a lay perspective /understanding it seems the important inferences from his study was the associative aspect of the bell ringing and the expectation of being presented with food. Actually as I type this it makes me think those experiments could be revisited with eye toward more fully understanding ‘dog consciousness’? Perhaps they suggest aspects of a more robust capacity for abstraction in dog ‘thought’? Recognition of future results?, hmm anyways..
Given what we know about human consciousness , current and future understanding not necessarily withstanding , a disassociative technique can be very powerful in ‘short circuiting’ an urge or desire. Without getting too far in the weeds pertaining to dopamine release and other brain chemical reactions to stimulae both concrete and abstract, the bell ringing effect of the unindulged desire brings the concomitant salivation of the feelings of unease of not indulging.
How long does it take for the bell ringing not followed by presentation to affect the salivation response ? The analogy really only holds loosely , but in either case the ringing isn’t really what brings the presentation , just the expectation , yeah? Sorry this is a rather stream of consciousness thingy.

GerandTwine

I’ve bumped this thread at the time of US Thanksgiving with thanks for its ongoing presence here on SR in the public realm.

One quarter of a century ago the first book on Addictive Voice Recognition Technique was published as “The Final Fix”, by Jack Trimpey, Lotus Press, CA, 1994. One year later, the Rational Recovery website went online worldwide. Two years later, an expanded version was published as “Rational Recovery, The New Cure”.

A quarter of a century is 10% of the age of the United States. The only other time in US history that this unconditional, permanent abstinent method of recovery from addiction was popularly promoted across the nation was for the two years of 1840 and 1841 by the original Washingtonians. Unfortunately, Washingtonianism changed and came to mean something other than unconditional self recovery.

Eight years ago Addictive Voice Recognition Technique was introduced worldwide through this website by Terminally Unique (originally using AVRT for a username) and the thousands of posts of this long running thread began. It is still here thanks to Morning Glory and the SR staff.

Since only so much can be said about AVRT, and since it is not an ongoing program of shared recovery, this thread has fallen silent; just like the musical duet of the alien mothership with the humans’ computers at the foot of Devil’s Tower in “Close Encounters of the Third Kind”. There are many types of arrivals at the door of learning AVRT, and a broad spectrum of them are here in this thread and others read them and find commonality.

Hopefully, those who, understandably, do not see the US Thanksgiving as commemorative of a time of thanks can still be thankful about discovering AVRT for themselves or someone they know, or simply knowing it has been created and cannot be uncreated. AVRT is culturally neutral and still publicly available to anyone in its pristine form.

Fusion

Secular Connections used to be frequented often, with its’ many references to RR/AVRT. Then this Permanent Abstinence Based Recovery sub-forum was opened, and it’s rarely visited. Which is sad. Why do you think that is GT?

Fusion

I miss Algorithm’s posts, he took over the main RR/AVRT threads, after Terminally Unique left SR. Algorithm suffered an injury to his leg/foot and stopped posting on SR. I do hope that he is well. He possessed a special skill in explaining the nuances of AVRT.

msl999

GerandTwine, I just wanted to thank you for your contributions to these threads.

You’re like an anti-AV ninja, calling out it’s BS at every turn. Some people get upset when you call out their AV, but it says more about them than it does you. I appreciate your advocacy of RR/AVRT, and I hope you are here for a long time...people need your wisdom.

Thanks again.

GerandTwine

Please reread the fifth paragraph in my last post just above your question. If you’ve never seen “Close Encounters of the Third Kind” it’s really entertaining, I think, even today forty two years post production.

Fusion

GT, you misunderstood me. The main six part AVRT threads had over a quarter of a million views when in Secular. Views have become almost non-existent since tne AVRT threads were moved to this sub-forum, with its esoteric title. Any time of day or night on the globe, there are virtually no readers.

This final part thread that you resurrected, the last poster date of 7 April 2018. Which is such a shame, because nobody appears to be reading the thread, and thus, learning AVRT.

AVRT is a great tool for stopping drinking, so maybe it’s time for you to rethink this sub-forum, so that more people can read and benefit. I ask you as you appear to have taken ownership of it, as Jack Trimpey’s ambassador?

GerandTwine

Tatsy,

I will thank you for your assumption of my power here on Permanent Abstinence because all I am actually doing is pointing out the Addictive Voice wherever I see it (within the limits of the SR rules).

I’ve mentioned several times in other threads that I think one reason the book “Rational Recovery, The New Cure” is as long as it is, is because of the massive the influence the Addictive Voice has in the English speaking countries.

Again, I will refer you to the fifth paragraph of the post just above your original question. Please read it carefully.

New posts usually attract about 20 views unless the thread becomes popular like the series of six AVRT threads of which this post is part.

This forum titled Permanent Abstinence gets a new visitor about once every twenty minutes. That has been going on for the last 20 months 24/7. And that does not include visitors to this duplicated series of six threads.

I suspect your negative feelings you have expressed in your post may be associated to the average belief in the English speaking countries about how people arrest their addictions, not how people become permanently abstinent.

GT

Fusion

GT you appear to be talking at cross purposes, or misunderstanding. Plus you won’t answer my question regarding your connection with RR/AVRT. I know that Algorithm had permission to post here. I guess we will have to leave it at that.

What I wrote has nothing to do with paragraph 5 of your post above mine.

fini

wondering how you are, Tatsy?
wishing everyone a good start to the new year and decade.

Fusion

Hi fini, thanks for asking, I'm fine thank you. Anti-alcohol-thought concrete wall is impermeable; thats not to say thoughts of drinking don't bash their habitual thinking against the wall....but I just ignore their mental thrashing, don't engage with their pathetic whining and pleading, and eventually they desist and scuttle back to their habitual pit.

I do hope you are well, fini, and that you enjoy peace in the new year and decade. How recently it seems I celebrated the last one, and the millenium. Sigh, how short even a long life is.

fini

yeah, time speeds up and is quite warped

Sohard

GT- I’m not sure you’re getting the gist of what Tatsy (I think) is saying. The reality is that most people in the country/world don’t use the term “Permanent Abstinent Based Recovery”. That’s a fact. So, people addicted to alcohol come on this site and flock to “newcomers” or the “Alcoholism” forum, not here. Why would they?! They don’t know it exists. I myself was lurking on SR for years before I accidentally stumbled upon “secular connections”, then I was again thrown and confused when my AVRT people were then directed to Permanent Abstinent Based Recovery. Frankly, it’s nuts and a bit shameful. It should not have been so hard to find the information I needed. The forum title is deliberately complex, to the point where it seems intentionally so (although perhaps subconsciously) in order to differentiate it from the more common AA. Make the thread title “For alcohol addicts who are looking for a way other than AA”. Then the people will be helped who need it. I bet Fresh Start would agree. Complexity holds no place here. Let’s make it as simple as possible.

I’m a teacher. Almost all schools have a “Code Red” that they say in order to practice for a terrorist and that they plan to actually announce over a speaker when/if there ever is a gunman. But new studies have proven the obvious. And this is that schools need to cut the bs and instead just state over the intercom “a man with a gun is shooting in the lobby”. This will save valuable seconds where people would have been thinking “huh? Code red? Like, for real? Or is it a drill?”

More lives could be saved here if people didn’t have to stumble upon something accidentally they didn’t even know existed so couldn’t have been looking for.

If I sound frustrated/annoyed, it’s because I am. There should be no discussion about the obvious.

fini

i agree with you about the title, though for a different reason. it is a cumbersome title, and does in fact also apply to the AA program goal.
the positioning of the forum is unfortunate, but since the forums are listed from top to bottom, something has to be first (and Newcomers needs to be at the top) and the rest somehow arranged.
maybe if someone came up with a better title, the mods would consider changing it.

Sohard