Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion — Part 6
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
Hi Karen, I'm so glad you've read these threads. Terminally Unique is a lovely soul, I only joined last year, so never 'spoke' to him. But his legacy lives on.
I stopped drinking, forever, by learning and applying AVRT. I was a lapsed Catholic, plus AA didn't work for me, despite trying so hard and working the Steps twice. Since stopping drinking, quite literally, forever, via AVRT, I've a renewed faith in God and spiritualism.
But, AVRT works on the premise that God gave us the power, free-will, to decide whether to drink, or not. Practising AVRT does not require God's help, because we've already been provided with it, from birth. Our higher brains can override the lower base brain (pleasure seeking, stress-relieving....alcohol seeking) by saying NO to the lower brain's pursuit for instant gratification.
But it's fantastic if God is on, your side, but God will be pleased you're using your God given free-will, or as I call it, free-won't. Not sure I've made much sense, but truly glad to see you posting here, Karen. AVRT probably saved my life, that's why I read these threads every day, hoping to pay it forward.
I stopped drinking, forever, by learning and applying AVRT. I was a lapsed Catholic, plus AA didn't work for me, despite trying so hard and working the Steps twice. Since stopping drinking, quite literally, forever, via AVRT, I've a renewed faith in God and spiritualism.
But, AVRT works on the premise that God gave us the power, free-will, to decide whether to drink, or not. Practising AVRT does not require God's help, because we've already been provided with it, from birth. Our higher brains can override the lower base brain (pleasure seeking, stress-relieving....alcohol seeking) by saying NO to the lower brain's pursuit for instant gratification.
But it's fantastic if God is on, your side, but God will be pleased you're using your God given free-will, or as I call it, free-won't. Not sure I've made much sense, but truly glad to see you posting here, Karen. AVRT probably saved my life, that's why I read these threads every day, hoping to pay it forward.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Chester, UK
Posts: 684
Yes, welcome Karen.
I agree with much of what you say - I hope that's gentle enough!
IMO I don't think there should be a reference to a higher power in the Big Plan because it would be an unnecessary obstacle to a lot of people.
The only concern I would have about including the words "With God's strength" in a Big Plan is that it makes it dependant on your faith and so it will fall if this is ever lost.
IMO you could still draw strength from your belief that God is with you on this even if He is not explicitly mentioned in the Big Plan, just as you could with anything good such as a fitness regime for example.
I agree with much of what you say - I hope that's gentle enough!
IMO I don't think there should be a reference to a higher power in the Big Plan because it would be an unnecessary obstacle to a lot of people.
The only concern I would have about including the words "With God's strength" in a Big Plan is that it makes it dependant on your faith and so it will fall if this is ever lost.
IMO you could still draw strength from your belief that God is with you on this even if He is not explicitly mentioned in the Big Plan, just as you could with anything good such as a fitness regime for example.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,574
Originally Posted by AlericB 
"concern I would have about including the words "With God's strength" in a Big Plan is that it makes it dependant on your faith and so it will fall if this is ever lost.
IMO you could still draw strength from your belief that God is with you on this even if He is not explicitly mentioned in the Big Plan, just as you could with anything good such as a fitness regime for example.
IMO you could still draw strength from your belief that God is with you on this even if He is not explicitly mentioned in the Big Plan, just as you could with anything good such as a fitness regime for example.
My thoughts are similar to Aleric's. My only concern would be if I made my non-drinking status contingent on a belief in God. I think my AV might use that against me --- if something happened that caused me to question my faith in God, would it then be OK to drink? And my AV might even try to manufacture a crisis of faith ... "see, that thing happened, so God must not really be with you, so your vow doesn't count, so ... what's stopping us from drinking?".
That said, my understanding of AVRT, is that once we've made the decision to quit, we're free to practice our beliefs and use any and all resources to become the people we want to be, and live in accordance with our values. In your prayers you could thank god for having given you the power of choice.
Ps, edited to add, im just trying to explain my own understanding of AVRT. I'm not the "thought police" lol, you may come to a different understanding. There are also, as you probably know, faith-based approaches in which one explicitly calls on one's higher power to stay sober.
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by Karen22
I understand that we have the power within us - just us alone - but wouldn't it give added strength to include it. For example, my Big Plan is "I will never drink again". What if I amend it to something like "With God's strength, I will never drink again".
Originally Posted by Karen22
I've read through the posts that it's possible to make a big plan and not keep it.)
You know what "drinking" is. You know what "never" means. It's amazingly IN-OUR-FACES obvious when alcohol gets by our mouths. Nevertheless, millions of people have lied about never drinking again. But they didn't really mean it, until that last time. It might have been on a death bed, which would have been pretty meaningless.
But making a Big Plan pledge of permanent abstinence has also been done by millions of people throughout history. It's just impossible to prove that you've REALLY done it, which is OK. No more evidence of Beastly behavior can pile up to regaining trust from others, and a better life. I did it years ago, but I don't expect people to believe me. I just know it myself.
You might be interested in Tammy711's posts and blog from the past.
Reach Out and Touch Faith
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
I didn't make my decision to stop contingent on my higher power. That doesn't mean I'm eternally thankful at the end of each day that S/he gave me SMART Recovery when I needed it. In addition, living without drinking is much more in tune with the universe as it exists than drinking into oblivion every night.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 41
I started drinking heavily at age 60 to dull the pain of my divorce after 35 years of marriage. I've found AVRT to be exactly what I need and it's been working well for me but I have a question. I don't feel like I have a "disease" since the drinking was a coping mechanism that I started in response to unhappiness in my life. But a therapist I spoke to told me that my two years of heavy drinking had permanently changed my brain and that now I will have a disease for life. Can anyone tell me if there is any scientific evidence for this assertion of permanent brain alterations?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
I don't know any scientific advice but I personally don't prescribe to the AA disease theory of alcoholism. I do believe that my AV is with me for life, although it does get quieter over time. I believe I stopped being an alcoholic as soon as I stopped drinking. How can I be an alcoholic if I don't drink? Now I'm just a non drinking teetotaler.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Chester, UK
Posts: 684
Colette
Even if drinking does permanently alter the brain, how useful would this information be? These physical changes would constitute the Beast which produces the physical need for alcohol, a desire which expresses itself in thoughts, feelings and imagery designed to satisfy that desire.
AVRT regards the AV as the sole source of addiction, not the desire itself. You can feel the desire to drink and either calmly watch it rise or fall away or allow yourself get caught up in thoughts of possible drinking again (the AV).
Even if drinking does permanently alter the brain, how useful would this information be? These physical changes would constitute the Beast which produces the physical need for alcohol, a desire which expresses itself in thoughts, feelings and imagery designed to satisfy that desire.
AVRT regards the AV as the sole source of addiction, not the desire itself. You can feel the desire to drink and either calmly watch it rise or fall away or allow yourself get caught up in thoughts of possible drinking again (the AV).
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
Collette, here's a random, short article refuting your therapist's claim: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ction-recovery
Neuroplasticity is well established. There are practices designed specifically to help rewire the brain (which is to say, develop new neural pathways and thus new habits). Check out anything by Rick Hanson, for examples, especially the book Hardwiring Happiness.
AVRT, whether deliberately or not, utilizes this concept. By repeatedly saying I will never drink again, and by repeatedly refuting (rather than surrendering to) the AV, we are literally strengthening neural pathways that will help wire our resolve into our brains.
Aside from certain types of brain trauma (such as caused by an impact or concussion), the brain can heal. If addiction is a disease, neurobiologists tend to agree that it is not permanent, though returning to old behaviors (using) can reactivate dormant pathways and quickly return people to old patterns.
That's part of why a commitment to forever works better than one day at a time. Close that door and wire it shut yo.
Neuroplasticity is well established. There are practices designed specifically to help rewire the brain (which is to say, develop new neural pathways and thus new habits). Check out anything by Rick Hanson, for examples, especially the book Hardwiring Happiness.
AVRT, whether deliberately or not, utilizes this concept. By repeatedly saying I will never drink again, and by repeatedly refuting (rather than surrendering to) the AV, we are literally strengthening neural pathways that will help wire our resolve into our brains.
Aside from certain types of brain trauma (such as caused by an impact or concussion), the brain can heal. If addiction is a disease, neurobiologists tend to agree that it is not permanent, though returning to old behaviors (using) can reactivate dormant pathways and quickly return people to old patterns.
That's part of why a commitment to forever works better than one day at a time. Close that door and wire it shut yo.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 41
More advice needed from all of you wise people. Yesterday my adult daughter was upset with me and blurted out "well you're an alcoholic!" I stopped drinking about three weeks ago and plan to never ever drink again and will use avrt as I am doing now. Do you think I should tell my daughter about this? Should I just say I am not drinking anymore? How do I make up for the several times she saw me drunk and making a horrible scene (like vomiting, slurring,passing out,etc). I drank heavily only for the last year.
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,822
First of all, congratulations on your decision!
A Big Plan is a pledge/ promise made to yourself and since we can not lie to ourselves( if we tried we know we were trying to 'lie' , yeah ? ) , you could try and explain about your decision and resolve, but for others the pledge is only 'theoretical', and it may take time for them to trust in our resolve , especially if in the past we have stated before that the drinking was overand then drank again anyway.
As far as the label or name calling, after you have discussed your BP , you could remind her you remember when she used to poop her pants ....
A Big Plan is a pledge/ promise made to yourself and since we can not lie to ourselves( if we tried we know we were trying to 'lie' , yeah ? ) , you could try and explain about your decision and resolve, but for others the pledge is only 'theoretical', and it may take time for them to trust in our resolve , especially if in the past we have stated before that the drinking was overand then drank again anyway.
As far as the label or name calling, after you have discussed your BP , you could remind her you remember when she used to poop her pants ....
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
My kids are still kids and live with me. I've told them that I quit and that they will never see me drunk again and that I'm sorry, I was wrong. Since then I've been backing up my words with action/ or non action when it comes to not drinking.
Congrats on your decision to quit! Good for you!
Congrats on your decision to quit! Good for you!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Chester, UK
Posts: 684
Yes, congratulations, and just to say something about apologising as zenchaser brought up. If you haven't already done so it may be worth apologising for drinking in the first place knowing what it could lead to as well as for the actual acts committed while drunk.
You daughter may interpret apologies only for what you did while drunk as in some way making excuses for yourself. This is true for us all really. We were always more responsible for the decision to drink, which was made when fully in control of ourselves, than we were for the things we did once drunk.
You daughter may interpret apologies only for what you did while drunk as in some way making excuses for yourself. This is true for us all really. We were always more responsible for the decision to drink, which was made when fully in control of ourselves, than we were for the things we did once drunk.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 41
Thank you all once again for your advice. I have apologized many times to my daughters but I guess it rings pretty hollow without actions to back it up. This will take time but in the meantime we are suffering the consequences of my drinking. My daughter has said she feels like she has to take care of me because of my drinking and that it has ruined her life. She is afraid to move out on her own (she is 23 and has a good job). My heart is breaking for the way I've screwed up our lives.
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