Escapism...
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 675
Originally Posted by 2dayzmuse
A lot people are problem drinkers. For example, in college. Every weekend is a drunken weekend. Then the settle down and grow out of it. Their drinking is no longer problematic and they are not alcoholic. They can return to social drinking without any problems.
I think the title for people you just mentioned is exactly that,....college kids,...not problem drinkers. I think its safe to say that when we mention "problem drinkers" we mostly mean people in everyday life, with everyday jobs, kids, wives, husbands, and responsibility, who let their drinking get in the way of all or some of that. I think the college kids you exampled are a huge minority in the area of problem drinkers considering there are more people out living in the real world that abuse alcohol.
I also find it interesting that you said, in no uncertain terms, as if everyone is like that so it must be the norm,....."Every weekend is a drunken weekend"
Actually,...no,...its not. Many college students who dont abuse alcohol dont get blitzed every weekend. You seem to be letting what you deemed as normal become everyones reality because it may have been all you knew then.
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: fumbling towards ecstasy
Posts: 2,551
I think you're splitting hairs and making blanket statements, EB. I suggest we step back and share from our own ES&H here. I find that the most productive way I can help someone is to say, "This is what happened to me..." or "In my experiece, ..."
Thanks!
Thanks!
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Washington
Posts: 5,093
Don't forget, you don't have to try to convince me of the differences between problem drinkers and alcoholics EB. I'm quite aware. Let me rephrase my statement. I left if brief in hopes I could make a point in simple terms, but I see that was a mistake.
College kids who drink to excess do have a problem with their drinking for an brief or extended amount of time. Yes, most do drink every weekend and drink way past excess. I know this to be true. You can say that it is my experience only, but I don't believe that. Feel free to continue to believe that. That is perfectly fine with me.
When you say I think its safe to say that when we mention "problem drinkers" we mostly mean people in everyday life, with everyday jobs, kids, wives, husbands, and responsibility, who let their drinking get in the way of all or some of that. Instead of we I think what you meant to say is I. I think that is your interpretation. I was trying to give an example outside of the everyday problem drinker whom crosses the line into alcoholism. They are out there, sparse, but there non the less. Again, I'm well aware of that invisible line.
I did not say in uncertain terms that everyone was like that, nor did I say it was the norm. That was your interpretation. However, it was my experience during that time in my life as well as my friends who were partying right along with me. They live productive lives and are social drinkers or don't drink at all today. There sure were a lot of people at those college parties, a lot of familiar faces. What I deemed as normal, apparently they could say the same for that time. I'm also aware that there are many students who chose to stay home on the weekends to study.
Please don't try to suggest that college drinking isn't a problem because they are just that college kids. The gist is those who are alcoholic will grow to have unmanageable lives over the years and those who are not, will grow out of it and live productive ones. You can't pick and choose problem drinkers to fit your own definition.
My point is simply this, not all problem drinkers turn out to be alcoholic. Maybe as an alcoholic you can not accept that belief? That is fine. I can.
College kids who drink to excess do have a problem with their drinking for an brief or extended amount of time. Yes, most do drink every weekend and drink way past excess. I know this to be true. You can say that it is my experience only, but I don't believe that. Feel free to continue to believe that. That is perfectly fine with me.
When you say I think its safe to say that when we mention "problem drinkers" we mostly mean people in everyday life, with everyday jobs, kids, wives, husbands, and responsibility, who let their drinking get in the way of all or some of that. Instead of we I think what you meant to say is I. I think that is your interpretation. I was trying to give an example outside of the everyday problem drinker whom crosses the line into alcoholism. They are out there, sparse, but there non the less. Again, I'm well aware of that invisible line.
I did not say in uncertain terms that everyone was like that, nor did I say it was the norm. That was your interpretation. However, it was my experience during that time in my life as well as my friends who were partying right along with me. They live productive lives and are social drinkers or don't drink at all today. There sure were a lot of people at those college parties, a lot of familiar faces. What I deemed as normal, apparently they could say the same for that time. I'm also aware that there are many students who chose to stay home on the weekends to study.
Please don't try to suggest that college drinking isn't a problem because they are just that college kids. The gist is those who are alcoholic will grow to have unmanageable lives over the years and those who are not, will grow out of it and live productive ones. You can't pick and choose problem drinkers to fit your own definition.
My point is simply this, not all problem drinkers turn out to be alcoholic. Maybe as an alcoholic you can not accept that belief? That is fine. I can.
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Minneapolis MN
Posts: 404
Welcome to SR. In my opinion, it does not matter if we think you are an alcoholic or not - What does matter is that if you think that you have a problem - you probably do. I hope you find what you're looking for. I tend to agree w Earlybird that, generally, people without a drinking problem don't google recovery websites. Just my opinion.
JMHS
JMHS
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Big Woods
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by jmhs002
In my opinion, it does not matter if we think you are an alcoholic or not - What does matter is that if you think that you have a problem - you probably do.
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: london
Posts: 2
There seems to be a debate going on here.
I think I am an alcohol abuser rather than alcoholic...not all the time, just sometimes and I probably drink more than your average non-alcoholic. For instance, last night one of my clients paid for me to stay in a five star hotel, complete with mini bar plus half a dozen bottles of champagne in the room. My last glass of wine was on Sunday afternoon, so this is Tuesday night (and I haven't felt the need for a drink since Sunday afternoon). I am tired, it's been a hot and very long working day. I go to the room and I see all the champagne, including one that's been opened for me and placed in a bucket with ice. Part of me wants a big long glass of champagne....just because it's there and it's free and I'm all alone in a big impersonal hotel room. However, I decide to test myself, because of this debate we're having on soberrecovery. I had a shower and an early night instead, giving the champagne a second thought I must admit.....but I woke up in the morning feeling as fresh as a daisy not having touched it at all.....another long hot working day ahead...tonight I finally get home....and relax... with a large glass of wine and the window wide open. Surely, if I was an alcoholic, I would have drank some of that champagne as it was so easily available to me?
My boyfriend lived with me for a short while a couple of years ago. We didn't last long under the same roof because he is an alcoholic. He no longer drinks....but he did at that time. He drank the minute he opened his eyes...that can of beer was waiting on the bedside table and at least a dozen more were in the fridge. If we went anywhere, there would be a can in each of his pockets. If he got down to six cans, he'd have to go to the store and replenish his stock. When I dragged him off to an AA meeting he drank all the way in the car and left the can on the dashboard for afterwards.... I threw it away, thinking he would be sober when he came out of that meeting....instead he wanted to go to the pub to celebrate! Sometimes, on taking that first morning drink, he would vomit...but it never stopped him from finishing the can.
I knew about Soberrecovery from a couple of years ago, when I was looking for advice on how to help my boyfriend get sober...and how to help myself to cope with his alcoholism. So I didn't need to google......
I've been drinking quite heavily for years but I have never woken up needing a drink nor have I had DT's if I've stopped drinking either.... I don't think I got the disease of alcoholism but I believe my boyfriend did...as he fights every day to stay sober and interact within the world around him...with great difficulty...as he's painfully shy since alcohol is no longer an option to hide himself behind....he's no longer wearing his alcoholic cloak of confidence.
So, I believe it is true....an alcohol abuser or problem drinker can drink in a controlled way...but an alcoholic does not have an option....... I do believe also that the line is razor thin...maybe I am treading a very thin line at the moment and trying not to cross it and hoping to get away with it because having a drink right now is the only thing that enables me to cope with the pain I feel inside. Thanks for all your input...this is a most interesting debate and very helpful to me.
I think I am an alcohol abuser rather than alcoholic...not all the time, just sometimes and I probably drink more than your average non-alcoholic. For instance, last night one of my clients paid for me to stay in a five star hotel, complete with mini bar plus half a dozen bottles of champagne in the room. My last glass of wine was on Sunday afternoon, so this is Tuesday night (and I haven't felt the need for a drink since Sunday afternoon). I am tired, it's been a hot and very long working day. I go to the room and I see all the champagne, including one that's been opened for me and placed in a bucket with ice. Part of me wants a big long glass of champagne....just because it's there and it's free and I'm all alone in a big impersonal hotel room. However, I decide to test myself, because of this debate we're having on soberrecovery. I had a shower and an early night instead, giving the champagne a second thought I must admit.....but I woke up in the morning feeling as fresh as a daisy not having touched it at all.....another long hot working day ahead...tonight I finally get home....and relax... with a large glass of wine and the window wide open. Surely, if I was an alcoholic, I would have drank some of that champagne as it was so easily available to me?
My boyfriend lived with me for a short while a couple of years ago. We didn't last long under the same roof because he is an alcoholic. He no longer drinks....but he did at that time. He drank the minute he opened his eyes...that can of beer was waiting on the bedside table and at least a dozen more were in the fridge. If we went anywhere, there would be a can in each of his pockets. If he got down to six cans, he'd have to go to the store and replenish his stock. When I dragged him off to an AA meeting he drank all the way in the car and left the can on the dashboard for afterwards.... I threw it away, thinking he would be sober when he came out of that meeting....instead he wanted to go to the pub to celebrate! Sometimes, on taking that first morning drink, he would vomit...but it never stopped him from finishing the can.
I knew about Soberrecovery from a couple of years ago, when I was looking for advice on how to help my boyfriend get sober...and how to help myself to cope with his alcoholism. So I didn't need to google......
I've been drinking quite heavily for years but I have never woken up needing a drink nor have I had DT's if I've stopped drinking either.... I don't think I got the disease of alcoholism but I believe my boyfriend did...as he fights every day to stay sober and interact within the world around him...with great difficulty...as he's painfully shy since alcohol is no longer an option to hide himself behind....he's no longer wearing his alcoholic cloak of confidence.
So, I believe it is true....an alcohol abuser or problem drinker can drink in a controlled way...but an alcoholic does not have an option....... I do believe also that the line is razor thin...maybe I am treading a very thin line at the moment and trying not to cross it and hoping to get away with it because having a drink right now is the only thing that enables me to cope with the pain I feel inside. Thanks for all your input...this is a most interesting debate and very helpful to me.
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lost in translation
Posts: 47
Wow, I can almost relate to what you are saying. Binge drinking...I do that..I can go days, weeks gosh went almost a year and a half while pregnant then breastfeeding without a drop. But, I always go back to it that is my problem. I might go a few days, even if it's in the house like you did in the hotel room, but then go buy a 12 pack and it's gone that night. I use to be alot worse, where I did need it everyday and would get the shakes if I didn't have any. I know it is a problem however, so I'm trying to just exclude it from my life completly for my sake and my daughters.
I too come from a VERY messed up family and a line of alcoholics. My Grandfather died from liver cancer, (heavy drinker) my mother drinks a 5 liter box of wine every other night, I have 2 uncles that died homeless drunks so here I am with these GREAT genes! I pray to the heavens above that my daughter does not get this HORRIBLE gene from me. I do not talk to my mother or my sister anymore as they were a BIG source of my drinking....the stress and negativity just drove me to it more.
I do understand what you are saying though...I think there is somewhat of a difference between binge drinking and alcoholism, even though it is slight.
I too come from a VERY messed up family and a line of alcoholics. My Grandfather died from liver cancer, (heavy drinker) my mother drinks a 5 liter box of wine every other night, I have 2 uncles that died homeless drunks so here I am with these GREAT genes! I pray to the heavens above that my daughter does not get this HORRIBLE gene from me. I do not talk to my mother or my sister anymore as they were a BIG source of my drinking....the stress and negativity just drove me to it more.
I do understand what you are saying though...I think there is somewhat of a difference between binge drinking and alcoholism, even though it is slight.
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 675
If someone always binge ate, they would be considered having an eating disorder.
Sounds to me like you are at that stage where you are searching for evidence that you arent an alcoholic. That is usually a red flag that you are. Im not saying you ARE,....Im just saying that is usually the case. I did the same thing. I told my friends that I was "just a binge drinker". Then I told them "Well,.....maybe I abuse alcohol from time to time,...so what?.....Im not an alcoholic though"
Look at me now. I almost died from it because it progressed from that point into a demon that almost killed me. And at that ONE point,...I was exactly where you are now. Saying the exact same things. Point is,.....you cannot see the future. You DONT know if this is the early stages of the progressive disease of alcoholism. If you were in that stage, you WOULDNT know it. All you can do,....is realize that you arent different from all of us,....and we are telling you that we said the very same things about our drinking that you are saying now. Consider it, atleast.
Sounds to me like you are at that stage where you are searching for evidence that you arent an alcoholic. That is usually a red flag that you are. Im not saying you ARE,....Im just saying that is usually the case. I did the same thing. I told my friends that I was "just a binge drinker". Then I told them "Well,.....maybe I abuse alcohol from time to time,...so what?.....Im not an alcoholic though"
Look at me now. I almost died from it because it progressed from that point into a demon that almost killed me. And at that ONE point,...I was exactly where you are now. Saying the exact same things. Point is,.....you cannot see the future. You DONT know if this is the early stages of the progressive disease of alcoholism. If you were in that stage, you WOULDNT know it. All you can do,....is realize that you arent different from all of us,....and we are telling you that we said the very same things about our drinking that you are saying now. Consider it, atleast.
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: windsor, ontario, canada
Posts: 201
Perhaps all is great now. But maybe the next time, you wont be visiting an alcohol recovery site and wont think twice about rewarding yourself after a long day of work with that free, quiet glass of champagne.
I havent read all the posts, but if your boyfriend doesnt drink, i wonder if it is he that has made you wonder whether or not you are an alcoholic? Or if it is you feeling guilty that you like to drink.
Remember the statement: 1 is too many and a 100 is not enough.
I guess if you were worried enough to post the original thread, then maybe there is a "problem". Being-the road to alcoholism is at the next traffic light and maybe you should start slowing now for the yellow caution before you lose control
mertyl
I havent read all the posts, but if your boyfriend doesnt drink, i wonder if it is he that has made you wonder whether or not you are an alcoholic? Or if it is you feeling guilty that you like to drink.
Remember the statement: 1 is too many and a 100 is not enough.
I guess if you were worried enough to post the original thread, then maybe there is a "problem". Being-the road to alcoholism is at the next traffic light and maybe you should start slowing now for the yellow caution before you lose control
mertyl
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: road to recovery
Posts: 1,689
Katy, i'm reading this and it could be my story during the years between college and marriage. in my case, drinking "helped" my creativity--"helped" me to be contemplative. "all" the fabulous, "all" the creative, "all" the intellectual people that I knew drank--some to excess. isn't that always the case? "all" great artists, writers etc. drink. right? i was just like that. i wanted to be like them. yikes, the things i told myself! ...and at the time i truly believed.
took 10 years to begin to think i might have a problem. another 5 before i knew. to this day, i've never had dt's nor wanted a drink in the morning, but occasionally, i would drink to blackout. not often. but it happened more and more frequently. i also lied to myself about my drinking. the whole point is: i realized that once i took a drink, i couldn't predict what would happen--would i keep drinking or stop after one or two? i simply didn't know and couldn't find a pattern. eureka. i'm an alcoholic. oh joy.
alcoholism is progressive. you will see in time--in YOUR time--what your situation is. we can't answer that for you. only YOU will know. i read the posts in your other thread and it looks like the conversation got a little off-track and for that it's a shame. there are a lot of good people here with a lot of collective wisdom and a lot of love. keep coming back.
took 10 years to begin to think i might have a problem. another 5 before i knew. to this day, i've never had dt's nor wanted a drink in the morning, but occasionally, i would drink to blackout. not often. but it happened more and more frequently. i also lied to myself about my drinking. the whole point is: i realized that once i took a drink, i couldn't predict what would happen--would i keep drinking or stop after one or two? i simply didn't know and couldn't find a pattern. eureka. i'm an alcoholic. oh joy.
alcoholism is progressive. you will see in time--in YOUR time--what your situation is. we can't answer that for you. only YOU will know. i read the posts in your other thread and it looks like the conversation got a little off-track and for that it's a shame. there are a lot of good people here with a lot of collective wisdom and a lot of love. keep coming back.
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: FRIENDSWOOD, TEXAS
Posts: 500
katy, I looked at things the same way you did and started drinking to escape from reality and because it made me feel good and it took away the pain and my heavy drinking started around 20 or 21 in college and i thought it was just to have fun but over the years escalated and within the last 4-5 years i realized i had become an alcoholic and it is progressive to the point where you will not be able to stop and you will not pass up a drink and you will also not be able to stop at 1 or 2 drinks and will have difficulty stopping without withdrawals , but it is up to you to decide if that is where you are headed, because as others have said on this thread deep down you know if you are an alcoholic and i think i knew i was a long time before i admitted to it. Just something to think about.
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