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How Do I Help Her?

Old 05-24-2006, 01:00 PM
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Question How Do I Help Her?

Hiya everyone, I hope i am doing this in the correct place. I am at my wits end. I have a very close friend who is also my next door neighbour. She is currently drinking herself out of her life. She has already been in hospital in september last year and suffers severe depression/anxiety/panic. Her parents are great and have tried everything that they can possibly think off to help. Although we are all aware that the ability for her to get better has to come from within herself. What do we all do in the meantime while she is getting drunk every night to knock herself out?

She has already lost her two teenage daughters as they cant stand to be in the house with her due to her behaviour when she is drunk. They are now with her mum and dad, however, she still isnt low enough to fight the alcohol to get the kids home.

I'm completely stuck as to what i should do, her mum is the same, we are constantly picking her up and carrying her to the toilet, making sure she is ok throughout the nights, talking to her when she is drunk and upset trying to settle her down so she can sleep the alcohol off. We have also recently had to walk with her to the shops as she is too scared to go alone, although we know she will buy drink but its not as easy as just walking away and leaving her. Are we doing the right thing picking her up and looking after her when she is drunk, or are we just enabling her to carry it on....should we withdraw our help so it forces her to help herself? We dont know what to do for the best, can anyone help with any suggestions as to a way forward?
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Old 05-24-2006, 01:11 PM
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Friend In Need,
You will be able to find a lot of great information here, resources, programs, meetings, etc. But find out how to help her? That is the age old question we all have faced and had to admit that probably there is not much of any you can do to help her,
Letting go of a loved one while they are still actively drinking/using is a very tough thing to do - I know I had to tap into the help of my Higher Power to be able to accomplish that.
If you are able, try to attend Al-Anon meetings, open AA meetings (to help understand the disease), read Al-Anon literature on detachment, enabling, and acceptance, these are some of my favorite comforts in recovery to know if my actions are the right thing for me.
Most of all, I hope that you take care of you, not to be unsympathetic of the suffering alcoholic, but you can't help someone that doesn't want help and most of the time we can't help our friends and family members anyway, because we are way to close to the situation.
Keep coming back, it works if you work it,
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Old 05-24-2006, 01:13 PM
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No. You are enabling her to remain a drunk. Alcoholics USE people. Thats just what we do in the midst of addiction. As long as you or anyone swoops in to clean up her messes, carry her to the couch,...accompany her to the store, bail her out of jail, or looking after her in ANY WAY,...as long as you are doing these things,....she will never get help. You are not helping her. You are shielding her from any and all consequences from her own drinking. The only thing you can really do at this point is, stop "cleaning up her messes" for her,....let her SEE what she is doing to HERSELF. That,.....and perhaps an intervention. Get you, her friends, neighbors, her family, and anyone else who cares about her together and confront her on it. Force her to address the issue with all of you all at once. Usually, this is enough for the addict to take a serious look at themselves. Its the embarrassment, the shame of what they have been doing hitting them all at once that sometimes causes them to seek help or ask for it. At this intervention you all must lay down serious consequences to her not seeking help. These being, you are not helping her any longer in any way. If she continues to use, none of you can have her in your lives any longer in any fashion. Stress to her that you all love her, and because of that, you cannot go on watching her destroy herself. Its too hard. Say all these things. But, you absolutely MUST mean it. You cannot back on any of the things you say. If you do, you undo any good the intervention had. Its hard. But you must do this to help her. That is the only thing I can come up with. Good Luck !!!
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Old 05-24-2006, 01:19 PM
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Helping here once she is drunk is not wrong. Helping her find a way to get drunk is where you could do better (from what you post)
"Drive me to the store"
NO!
"But I need food"
I will get it for you.

Driving her to get her booze is the one thing I would stop. She wants it, she can find a way to get it.

Co dependant No More is a good book for you to get. Al Anon meetings will give you a place of gathering info and support as well.
Look about and read the posts that say "sticky" beside them at the top of the boards.
You will find many wonderful people stop by here and share as well. Check back often.
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Old 05-24-2006, 01:41 PM
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Hey, Friendinneed, and welcome!! The others are 100% right, even if it's hard to hear! Those of us that haven't been alcoholics or drug addicts have had to deal w/ them and know every trick in the book!

Before I got sober, it took a serious kick in the pants from my former employer for me to seek help. No longer would he accept excuses for coming in late (if at all), and no longer would he sit back and watch my life deteriorate. It was the push I needed to get myself help. In the end, I wasn't mad at him at all (although the same reaction may not come from your friend...but you never know..) - I thanked him for caring and helping me get my life back.

Good luck and let us know how things are going, k?
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Old 05-24-2006, 01:50 PM
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Thank you Earlybird and Best for a quick reply. Most of what u both said has went through my head at some point or another in my bid to find a solution to what i should do.
Your right Best about the helping her get drink, ive only went with her the once (last night) as she never usually asks me when she is sober, only when drunk at which times ive ALWAYS refused! rightly or wrongly but extremely difficult as i worry she hurts herself or ends up knocked out in the road.
Early bird, what u said is exactly how i feel i should behaving with her, but the idea of us all getting together and telling her how bad she is, what she has done etc etc, isnt this exactly the opposite to what AA suggest u do, i could be wrong but i'm sure i read somewhere that there is no need to make an alcoholic feel guilty and avoid doing it because they already feel bad enough and making them feel worse will only make them drink all the more.

Is it perhaps just a case of different things work for different people?
I'm sitting here deading my way through all the postings to get a better idea of things, while worrying myself that any second now, my friend will come walking in the front door drunk....wanting me to roll her cigarettes or help her upstairs, theres always something although i wonder if its more a case of letting people know she is drunk....she keeps saying she "can't do it" "its too difficult just now" but i think she is looking for her parents to get her taken in to hospital like they had to in september, but she isnt quite as bad this time altho she would tell u she is worse! Is it possible that she is attention seeking when she is drunk? making herself out to be worse than she is...that she wants an easy way out of her drinking by being taken in to hospital to be "forced" sober through a locked in detox?

I really apologise for all the questions, but i have one more....its a request for oppinions on whether taking people away to detox against there will actually works....or are they MORE likely to slip back as apposed to if they reach rock bottom and drag themselves out? Or again is it just a case of it works differently for different people.
Thanks again for listening, i really do appreciate it! apart from here i have no other contacts to help me with this at the moment.
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Old 05-24-2006, 02:03 PM
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Well, yes, I think addicts often look for drama in their lives. It was something I used to do, almost unintentionally. But, looking back on it, I was seeking drama. I loved any kind of excitement, the adrenaline rush.

And, as for the easy way out, of course she is looking for an easy way out. We probably all did that. I kept figuring there had to be an easier way than just suffering through it. And, there isn't!

And, for detox, I think it would work differently for different people.

Please focus on you and taking care of yourself.
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Old 05-24-2006, 07:15 PM
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Welcome to SR Friend. You have found a GREAT place for some inciteful information, compassion, and understanding.

There is a two letter word you need to practice for EVERYTHING she asks............NO

No I can't help you up the stairs. No I can't help you to the toilet. No I can't take you to the store, but I will pick you up some food. No I can't help you to bed. No I can't help you shower.

NO, NO, NO

You, her friends (the ones she has left) and her parents are enabling her. She won't see how bad she is getting until all help has ceased and desisted and even then it may take some time for her to come out and actually ask for help and admit that she has a BIG probelm with alcohol.

It hurts to see it happen with someone we care about. I know I have been on both sides of the fence. For 24 years I was a falling down drunk, (well only the last couple were where I was falling down). I used and abused people to get them to do what I wanted.

Then due to events ALL OF MY OWN MAKING, I finally got sober. Not only have I now lived sober for a very long time, but I have had many in my life, in sobriety, in the condition (or worse) of your friend. Alanon helped me with that. It was there I really learned how to not "carry the alcoholic" and just "carry the message of recovery."

Please read everything you can here at SR and especially check out our Friends and Family forums. You will find many here who have either been where you are now, or are where you are now.

Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing.

JMHO

Love and (((((to all),
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Old 05-25-2006, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by FriendInNeed
Thank you Earlybird and Best for a quick reply. Most of what u both said has went through my head at some point or another in my bid to find a solution to what i should do.
Your right Best about the helping her get drink, ive only went with her the once (last night) as she never usually asks me when she is sober, only when drunk at which times ive ALWAYS refused! rightly or wrongly but extremely difficult as i worry she hurts herself or ends up knocked out in the road.
Early bird, what u said is exactly how i feel i should behaving with her, but the idea of us all getting together and telling her how bad she is, what she has done etc etc, isnt this exactly the opposite to what AA suggest u do, i could be wrong but i'm sure i read somewhere that there is no need to make an alcoholic feel guilty and avoid doing it because they already feel bad enough and making them feel worse will only make them drink all the more.

Is it perhaps just a case of different things work for different people?
I'm sitting here deading my way through all the postings to get a better idea of things, while worrying myself that any second now, my friend will come walking in the front door drunk....wanting me to roll her cigarettes or help her upstairs, theres always something although i wonder if its more a case of letting people know she is drunk....she keeps saying she "can't do it" "its too difficult just now" but i think she is looking for her parents to get her taken in to hospital like they had to in september, but she isnt quite as bad this time altho she would tell u she is worse! Is it possible that she is attention seeking when she is drunk? making herself out to be worse than she is...that she wants an easy way out of her drinking by being taken in to hospital to be "forced" sober through a locked in detox?

I really apologise for all the questions, but i have one more....its a request for oppinions on whether taking people away to detox against there will actually works....or are they MORE likely to slip back as apposed to if they reach rock bottom and drag themselves out? Or again is it just a case of it works differently for different people.
Thanks again for listening, i really do appreciate it! apart from here i have no other contacts to help me with this at the moment.

AA is for people who are ready to deal with their addictions. For those who admit they may have a problem. Interventions are designed to get them to that point. Why have you decided against an intervention? It may be the only shot you have. Why NOT try it? What do you have to lose?
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Old 05-25-2006, 10:33 AM
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Ya know what?.......Yes, it is a problem to even help her while she is drunk. She got herself that way. So far this is her thinking. "Hmmmmm...I get drunk,....and they take care of me". She has to deal with this problem HERSELF. Until she is ready to admit it IS a problem. Whats the quickest way to that point? By letting the brunt of ALL she does fall squarely on HER shoulders and no one elses. Yes,...it would be bad to HELP her GET drunk. But helping her WHILE she is drunk is just as bad. She thinks that if she can just get herself wasted,...then someone will be there to watch over her. Thats what is happening thus far. You are giving her a reason TO KEEP drinking.
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Old 05-25-2006, 10:49 AM
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There is a show on the A&E channel on cable TV. Its called "Intervention". It deals with exactly what Ive been describing. Friends and family get together to intervene in a loved ones drug or alcohol addicted life. The addict thinks that A&E is just doing a documentary on drug use or alcohol lifestyles and wants to follow them around with a camera to see the daily lifestyle. What they dont know is that the whole thing has been set up by their friends and family. At the end of the hour long show, they lure the addict to some location like their house or a neighbors house by telling them some lie. They walk in and are immediately confronted by everyone. This way, the addict cant make up lies or excuses. Addicts are very crafty liars and actors when dealing with people one on one. They can tweek their lies when talking to different people about basically the same lie. But when they are confronted by everyone at once, they cant BS them all. They are forced to admit that their life is causing the entire family unit and friend-circle severe pain. Each person at the intervention has a couple of minutes to speak to the addict directly, but in front of the rest of the group. That way it all gets out in the open. This holds the addict accountable for anything he or she says. They cant tell you one thing, and then tell your brother, sister, or mother or father that they never said it when questioned about it. You are all right there, front and center. The addict must address the issue right then and there, because you are ambushing them. If you are wondering,....yes,...this often DOES pi55 off the addict immensly. They act betrayed, angry, upset and may even start name calling. But they are only mad at themselves because they KNOW its all true and that they deserved the ambush. They also suspected all along that it was only a matter of time before the ambush or something like it took place. From what I understand,....the success rate in cases where an intervention took place, is overwelming
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Old 05-25-2006, 02:22 PM
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If you haven't stopped by already, here's a quick link to the Friends and Family of Alcoholics section of this forum

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ly-alcoholics/
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Old 05-25-2006, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by earlybird
If you are wondering,....yes,...this often DOES pi55 off the addict immensly. They act betrayed, angry, upset and may even start name calling. But they are only mad at themselves because they KNOW its all true and that they deserved the ambush. They also suspected all along that it was only a matter of time before the ambush or something like it took place. From what I understand,....the success rate in cases where an intervention took place, is overwelming

THIS is really frightening! Intervention in a private situation by people who know and truly care about the addict is one thing, but to put this on TV!? If the addict goes straight I think the first thing he or she should do is find a new set of "friends and family".

Wow, what this society has come to.

Gianna
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Old 05-25-2006, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by earlybird
AA is for people who are ready to deal with their addictions. For those who admit they may have a problem. Interventions are designed to get them to that point. Why have you decided against an intervention? It may be the only shot you have. Why NOT try it? What do you have to lose?
Thanks Earlybird for your replies, i really do appreciate it. I understand what ur saying about intervention methods but haven't decided against intervention. I had a look at the A&E "Intervention" website as i dont get the channel and i think intervention is a good idea. However i noticed that it mentioned that if they choose to get better they get the chance to go in to a therapy clinic straight away. What would happen if we tried this idea of intervention and basically left her rotting in her house afterwards with no therapy, i think thats a major problem here where we live, theres not alot of help available.

What have i got to lose? my friend! although she is practically lost to drink, i know she is in there somewhere. However, if she is pushed lower,myself and her parents are afraid she will eventually succeed where previous suicide attempts have failed. If she can't fight her way back for the sake of her kids ( they went to live with her mum about 2 weeks ago) then she isnt going to get better on the grounds that myself and her parents are fed up carrying her up the stairs/toilet etc.

We are no longer tidying up the house, doing dishes, washing her sick up, she is being left to do it herself, all we are doing is visiting her to make sure she is alive basically. I sat with her for hours today and did manage to get a conversation going and she interacted with me quite well, and we spent the evening with friends round at her mums which she hasnt done in a long time.She seemed to enjoy herself. However i know she has a couple of cans to drink now she is home, which is really disappointing. Even when she seems to have a good day/night she still seems to resort to drink altho she tells us she only drinks because she is depressed, all excuses i know.
Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to offer me help,support and advice. I really do appreciate it.
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Old 05-25-2006, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by gianna
THIS is really frightening! Intervention in a private situation by people who know and truly care about the addict is one thing, but to put this on TV!? If the addict goes straight I think the first thing he or she should do is find a new set of "friends and family".

Wow, what this society has come to.

Gianna
I agree Gianna, the idea of intervention is good i think but to actually use it for tv is maybe not the best thing to do. Each to their own but tv isnt in my oppinion the best way to go.
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Old 05-25-2006, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by gianna
THIS is really frightening! Intervention in a private situation by people who know and truly care about the addict is one thing, but to put this on TV!? If the addict goes straight I think the first thing he or she should do is find a new set of "friends and family".

Wow, what this society has come to.

Gianna

Its done very tastefully. Besides,....they have to get the "okay" from everyone before they can air it.
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Old 05-29-2006, 06:45 AM
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Hiya, this is just a quick update on my friend. She has today said she wants to detox to the people who's care she is under and they have decided to take her in to hospital to detox her over the next 10/11 days. She will be taken later this afternoon and i am not sure how long it will be that i will see her as i know they let u in 2 days in to detox but with me not having a car at the moment its gonna be extremely difficult.
Anyway just thought i would give an update on her. Take care everyone.
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Old 05-29-2006, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by earlybird
Its done very tastefully. Besides,....they have to get the "okay" from everyone before they can air it.

They also already know that they are being taped for their addiction. So, I am sure that the actual intervention is not a huge shock to many of them.
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Old 05-29-2006, 08:00 AM
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I wish your friend the very best of luck.

Reading your post was hard for me as it brought me back to the final days of my drinking and remembering the things I put my kids and mom and friends through. It was through a one-person intervention in the form of my mom that got me in the rooms of AA for the hopefully final time. My daughter had gone to live with her dad as she couldn't stand to watch me drunk. My son was being cared for by mom as he had no other place to turn. He asked my mom "Why doesn't she care about us anymore?" He was 17 at the time and my daughter was 14. My mom's only response was that it wasn't that I didn't care about THEM, I no longer cared about MYSELF (which was true). I loved my kids, family, friends etc. but all I CARED about was getting the liquor in me so I could pass out and not have to face life.

I share all of this to tell you that there is hope but your friend has got to reach the point where she is willing to get help (which it sounds like she may be). She is going to have to do the work and she is going to have to be willing to do whatever it takes. Enabling her doesn't do her any favors although I understand that you do it out of love and concern for her. Regardless of how this treatment works out try to let it go and let her find her way. I highly suggest Al-Anon for you as well as her family. This will help you learn how to deal with life regardless of what the A in your life does.

Thank you so much for sharing and helping this alcoholic remember what it was like.

Hugs,
Kellye
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Old 05-29-2006, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by OVERIT
They also already know that they are being taped for their addiction. So, I am sure that the actual intervention is not a huge shock to many of them.

Well,....the whole idea behind an intervention IS to shock the addict. The hope is that the shock and "ambush" is enough to abuptly FORCE the addict to see, all at once, what their addiction is doing. That is why an intervention is so effective.
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