Baloo

Thanks, that is awesome! I'm trying to work on this idea. I don't wanna just be sober. There are too many things I can improve about myself. The drink was like carrying a boulder around while running a race. I'm trying to focus on the race.

MemphisBlues

Dry drunk describes a huge chunk of my 17 months of sobriety.

The first six months were spent sick as a dog, pure misery physically and mentally. Now, it's the mental part that plagues me, daily, hourly, even as I type this.

That's why the steps of Alcoholics Anonymous speak to me, though I'm stuck on the 8th step at the moment due to ego and fear.

There are programs that will help keep you from drinking, and many use AA for that, incorrectly in my opinion. AA addresses the concept of being a dry drunk through the process of the 12 steps, where you bore inside to fix the soul sickness that could only be anesthetized chemically. In fact, My first four months of sobriety were done simply by not drinking. And I looked around at the shambles drinking and drugging caused and, well, really wanted a drink.

AA is for those who just couldn't accomplish the internal change that needed to take place to overcome years of drinking and drugging. If you take away the booze for a significant chunk of time and find out you are still miserable, maybe it's time to step back and wonder why the hell there are people who can not drink and drug and actually be happy.

If you can stop and stay stopped and life is peachy, don't go to AA. If you stop and stay stopped and still hurt after a significant period of sobriety, crawl into the rooms.

justhadenough

I hope my previous post was not interpreted as critical of AA-it was not meant to be and I apologize if it came across that way. I think AA is great and works for many millions of people. It is not for me though.

I know people may stop drinking and still be self centred, obnoxious, selfish people. But there are people in the world who have these traits who have never drunk. Also, there are people who only display these traits when drunk-take the drink away and the nastiness goes too.

For me, abstinence has opened up a whole new world.

jocata

I agree. I am one of those that merely abstaining is not enough. Apparently for some it is. If I take away just the alcohol and drug, I am still a selfish, egotistical, irritable sob. I drank because I liked the effect it produced. Take the drink away, and I have to live a lifestyle that will produce an effect even beyond what alcohol and drugs could ever do.

That's been my experience.

God bless.

midgetcop

TU - thanks for catching me on this, I guess I need to clarify by saying that it was/is necessary for *me* in my sobriety. Having never been sober as an adult, there's so much to re-learn and many ways in which I need to re-adjust my life. But abstaining from alcohol *is* ultimately the most important aspect of this necessary change in my life.

We all have our methods, and all are valid if they ultimately are working for us.

Terminally Unique

This is certainly understandable, and not unusual at all, midgetcop. I have a very refined eye for anything that suggests the possibility of future drinking, though, and the "dry drunk" fits the bill. I view the "dry drunk" mythology, which implies that you have to replace that wonderful, wonderful buzz from alcohol with yet another wonderful buzz, or you will go insane and explode, as a set-up for a future drunk. Jacota more or less summed up this point of view.

The implication from this line of thinking is the following: "I will only stay sober if life is great and I enjoy a wonderful high from life that is better than alcohol." It is effectively a bargain promising a payoff. What happens if that payoff goes away, though? Someday, life will inevitably throw you a curve-ball, and it might not be happy, joyous, and free for a while.

If you hold this mindset when things go south, you may start thinking "well, life certainly sucks again, so why bother not drinking, this not drinking deal is off," and back to the stuff you go. Far safer to decide the following: "I drank, had lots of good times, and then lots of bad times. I drank for better or for worse, but I'm done now, and like my drinking, I will abstain for better or for worse."

Just my 0.02

midgetcop

I have to say that I agree with your line of thinking, TU. Replacing my alcoholism with another type of "buzz" that achieves a similar effect won't help me in the long run. And that's why I have work to do - to not NEED or seek out that instant gratification, and to be able to mitigate the ups and downs of my life.

I believe it would be dangerous for me to simply believe that life will be wonderful as long as I abstain from alcohol. I have to expect that it won't, and yet still believe that it certainly wouldn't get any BETTER if I choose to pick up that drink.

Interesting discussion.

justhadenough

this is very interesting. I agree with MC and TU, I think people are led into a false sense of security by believing life will always be wonderful when they stop drinking. Life is life-it has ups and downs, good times and bad.

My theory is that life is better for me since I stopped drinking. I know I will, and have had, upsets, bad times etc all the time. they won't suddenly disappear just because I have stopped drinking. However, having stopped drinking I feel mentally more capable of dealing with such things and also better able to put them in perspective too. It is better for me to face these things sober than drunk or hungover. I view feeling better and more mentally positive as a direct result of stopping drinking-it isn't something I have had to work on-if that makes sense.

littlefish

My impression is that it is a phrase that came out of the rooms of AA. (?) It is used to describe someone who has quit drinking but hasn't worked the steps and, although they no longer drink, seem to be as sick as they were when they were active.

MustStop

I'd think it would just be that, a dry drunk. A raging alcoholic that can't get a drink but indeed wants one and has no interest in quitting. Maybe they are in jail or can't afford the booze, but want it. Thats a "dry drunk" in my opinion.

keithj

Sure. That's a great way to quit drinking if it works for you. It might not be a very reliable, or 'high-odds' approach, though. I look at the many hundreds of people who have signed up on this site and tried to follow this suggestion and failed, and it wouldn't be my first choice in a quit drinking program. Go look at any of the 'Month of whatever' daily threads and start counting names. There are a handful of people for whom that 'don't drink' program has worked, and countless hundreds and thousands for whom it has not worked.

This line of reasoning is quite a leap from reality. It jumped to a straw man argument that isn't consistent with reality. The reality is, that most people who stay in that miserable, 'dry drunk', not happy about sobriety, not happy about life, don't stay dry for long. A few do, and most of us wish they'd go have a drink.

The reality is, that many thousands of people who have transformed their lives into one filled with peace and usefulness, have weathered all sorts of horrible life events without drinking. Even when things go really badly, a spiritually based life works for sobriety.

Ranger

Absolutely. Sadly, SR provides a historical record of countless examples of folks who "quit", enjoyed a wonderful sobriety honeymoon, then slipped back into the alcoholic oblivion when real life set in.

It is both reasonable and logical that discontented people are more likely than contented people to turn (or REturn) to something unhealthy such as food, drugs, booze, sex.

Wanna give yourself the best shot at lifelong sobriety? Make yourself a meaningful, contented life. The term "dry drunk" is helpful to me as a shorthand that describes this basic, rational concept. Unfortunately, the term carries so much baggage from use as a pejorative that it throws some folks into hysterics.

RobbyRobot

You know, there is truth in that for some persons just a simple practice of abstinence would be considered insufficient for real recovery. I am counted as among those people, lol.

Dry drunkeness is no myth, has been my experience. I don't use my understanding of those "dry drunk" experiences except as a "quality check" tool in my own journey of ongoing sobriety. Scaring away others from living their own experiences of abstinence has zero interest for me. Absolutely I do appreciate that abstinence is enough in and of itself for many ex-alcoholics to experience and live real recovery. No problemo. Live and let live.

RobbyRobot

I agree that the idea that some people absolutely require a program to quit drinking is without merit. Totally. Not everyone requires an organised program to quit drinking for good and all; to enjoy that abstinence ongoing; and to otherwise live happily without drinking etc

Not everyone though can live a sober life sans program. Chronic alcoholics such as myself require a program of recovery because I have so chosen to walk that defined recovery path. Alcoholics such as myself... so what the hell does that mean?!

Yeah. Live and let live.

Ranger

Reading between the lines of the referenced post, it means that by virtue of spending decades within a program, you are a lot slow on the uptake.

But it wasn't meant to be patronizing...right?


How's this for a make-a-million-bucks-a-year program?

1. Make $19230.77 per week.
2. Work for 52 weeks.

Or how about a program for cutters:

1. Don't do #2
2. Cut yourself

Damn, this *** is easy. People who die from it must be less informed or slow on the uptake or something.

RobbyRobot

Yeah, I have weathered plenty of tough times without drinking. A spiritual based sobriety works well, as is my experience -- but its not the only "kind" of sobriety that works is also truth. Only by observation and fellowshipping with those living in sobriety who choose not to have a spiritual based life do I have relative experience of that "kind" of sobriety.

I have no reason to believe less their experiences simply because mine are different.

You know, I for one never wished the dry drunks who continually struggle with a dry drunk ongoing to go have a drink. That's me though. You're different it seems than me re: dry drunkeness. No problem. I don't agree with your advice, but no matter.

I'm wondering how often, or if ever, you yourself were told to have a drink when you experienced being dry drunk? Have you experienced been dry drunk Keith?

I know I've absolutely been told by some others to have a drink when I experienced some of my dry drunkeness....

Of course... I worked through those time without taking that drink... and funny enough without inquiring from those same persons any further "advice" moving forward...

Terminally Unique

Yes, I know. I was purposefully trying to simplify to the point of absurdity in order to illustrate that one could technically say that anything works, or doesn't work. As I said, I was a little slow on the uptake myself. I needed some "tips and tricks," as Boleo likes to call them, and even then, they didn't quite register until some other more clever people explained them to me properly.

I try to stay away from those threads, for the reasons you state. I long ago concluded that newbie "lean on me" sobriety pacts do not work very well, and the only advice I would have to give is to either go it alone or find someone solid to learn from.

langkah

When a thread has been dead for 7 years, perhaps there's a good reason.

I could be wrong, but suspect the poster who dug it out of mothballs and brought it back to life did so for a personal agenda.

Terminally Unique

You are essentially saying the same thing, though — that you need to fill that "dark hole" with something comparable, or better, or else you will drink again. Both the spiritual and psychological models of alcoholism take this view. I don't think "happiness" has anything to do with it, however. This idea that one must never be miserable, but "happy" instead, is classic addict thinking, and my AVRT training is going to zero in on it like a heat-seeking missile. No way around it, though, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

I won't really argue this point with you, Keith, as I've seen the revolving door first hand, as well as successes. From what I saw, the people who were able to truly adapt to the spiritual life (and not everyone can) usually did not relapse every two weeks.

RobbyRobot

Yeah, I was totally clueless on what sobriety was, how to live it, and all the rest that goes with staying sober. I was pretty busy just not getting drunk when I first detoxed and began the program that I have now been in for decades. So yeah... slow... absolutely.

But I was really just saying when I call myself an alcoholic of a certain type, what does that really mean to any one else.

Yeah, people do die from alcoholism. Some absolutely die from being less informed or slow or something. This is not news.