If you really knew me
Chrys
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 12
If you really knew me 
Hi again:
I'm wondering about other people's experiences of guilt and shame. Many of us crossed some of our own lines in the course of actively using. I know that at times, a memory or thought of some of my past drunkeness, promisciousness and basically making an a__ of my self coming flooding back. I wonder who knows what about me. I am embarassed. I'm afraid at times that parts of my past may come back to haunt me.
Last drink June 2002.
I always go back to staying sober and try to refocus on what I have accomplished since I put the booze away. That is most important I think. But I don't feel the same about myself anymore.
Would welcome any thoughts or experiences.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The Field of Dreams
Posts: 7,249
"We will not regret the past,nor wish to shut the door on it" Alcoholics Anonymous,into action pg 83.Chrys,we have all done things we regret.If I dwelled on my past mistakes I would literally lose my mind.Thats whats good about working the 12 steps.
In Memory Of
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Connecticut.
Posts: 3,736
We have all done thing's we are not proud of.Those were the thing's that nudged me into having the life I have today.In the promise's in the BB of AA it say's" we will not regret the past or wish to shut the door on it" pg83.Have you done a 4th and 5th?I found that working those and the rest of the step's have made me part of the human race.Go easy on yourself,everyday we live sober and don't repeat those behavior's is an amends. Bless, Trish
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 689
Hi chrys,
I'm not a 12-stepper so my beliefs diverge a bit. My recovery process has shown me that you can't put things behind you simply by willing yourself to do so.
Shame and guilt are big emotions and as you indicate, sobriety on its own doesn't address the feelings underneath the harmful choices we made for ouurselves. When we feel things like "If you really knew me", what we're feeling is a sense of worthlessness. We're feeling that the things we have done define who we are. We feel that we're imposters, waiting to be found out. We feel we're 'bad' and unlovable. So we believe things like, "If you only knew, you couldn't love me."
But the things you have done, do not define you. But it's easy to believe exactly that. As children, when so many of us were punished for doing 'bad' things, we felt unlovable. That we were bad. How else to make sense of a parent's rage and anger?
And we carried the belief that we were unlovable with us into adulthood, along with a lot of pain. And that feeling is often the very thing that leads to addiction and the accompanying beahviours we feel so much shame about.
It's taken a lot of hard work to learn to love myself and forgive myself. That process has involved understanding what led to my addiction -- to codependency as much as any other addiction.
Through therapy and a lot of reading about recovery from early childhood pain and trauma, I learned to accept that I made unhealthy choices for entirely understandable reasons. I had a lot of mistaken beliefs that had been drummed into me very early on (believing I was unlovable), and a lot of pain, and as a child I learned to surivive in certain way. Understanding that child, and why she did things, has been critical to letting go of shame or guilt.
I cannot change the things I've done. But I can continue to learn to accept and love myself. In seeing the connection between so long ago and the things I've done, I learn to have compassion for myself rather than feelings shame and guilt.
best
gf
I'm not a 12-stepper so my beliefs diverge a bit. My recovery process has shown me that you can't put things behind you simply by willing yourself to do so.
Shame and guilt are big emotions and as you indicate, sobriety on its own doesn't address the feelings underneath the harmful choices we made for ouurselves. When we feel things like "If you really knew me", what we're feeling is a sense of worthlessness. We're feeling that the things we have done define who we are. We feel that we're imposters, waiting to be found out. We feel we're 'bad' and unlovable. So we believe things like, "If you only knew, you couldn't love me."
But the things you have done, do not define you. But it's easy to believe exactly that. As children, when so many of us were punished for doing 'bad' things, we felt unlovable. That we were bad. How else to make sense of a parent's rage and anger?
And we carried the belief that we were unlovable with us into adulthood, along with a lot of pain. And that feeling is often the very thing that leads to addiction and the accompanying beahviours we feel so much shame about.
It's taken a lot of hard work to learn to love myself and forgive myself. That process has involved understanding what led to my addiction -- to codependency as much as any other addiction.
Through therapy and a lot of reading about recovery from early childhood pain and trauma, I learned to accept that I made unhealthy choices for entirely understandable reasons. I had a lot of mistaken beliefs that had been drummed into me very early on (believing I was unlovable), and a lot of pain, and as a child I learned to surivive in certain way. Understanding that child, and why she did things, has been critical to letting go of shame or guilt.
I cannot change the things I've done. But I can continue to learn to accept and love myself. In seeing the connection between so long ago and the things I've done, I learn to have compassion for myself rather than feelings shame and guilt.
best
gf
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Dubh Linn - Ireland
Posts: 455
Chrys,
Good people - bad disease....... I work it out by looking at my children and posing the question about how much and truely I love them. It is simply a fact that no matter what they do I will love them though I may often not like their actions etc.... We do have to love ourselves and that bit is hard......
Stay Well and A Big Congrats on your sobriety - it is sooo encouraging to a newbie like me!
Ama
Good people - bad disease....... I work it out by looking at my children and posing the question about how much and truely I love them. It is simply a fact that no matter what they do I will love them though I may often not like their actions etc.... We do have to love ourselves and that bit is hard......
Stay Well and A Big Congrats on your sobriety - it is sooo encouraging to a newbie like me!
Ama
Learning to love me.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: on my way
Posts: 617
Chrys,
First congrats in your sobriety.
Second, Let the past go. It's exactly that, in the PAST. Keep focusing on the here and now and what you can regain power over. Take it easy and keep working it.
First congrats in your sobriety.
Second, Let the past go. It's exactly that, in the PAST. Keep focusing on the here and now and what you can regain power over. Take it easy and keep working it.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: brandon man, canada
Posts: 258
chrys,I know what you mean i think when we were using we all did things we were not proud of.But i think that,thats the part in our hearts that tells us hey what are we doing and to smarten up and get the help we need to stop using.I,m trying not to let my past come back to haunt me to but as they say in the big book.Forget the past and start a new and better beginning.Good luck and another 24hrs.....
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: God's Grace
Posts: 689
Hello, Chrys. People are always going to think what they want to think about you. We can't worry or let out past actions consume us. Accept them as a reminder of how much you have grown. "Lessons". I have done some really bad and embarassing things in my drinking days. I don't want to forget them ever! If I forget all the lessons I learned so far, I will probably have to re-learn them again later.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Jasper, GA
Posts: 239
I do know you...
I know you because I see you every time I look in the mirror. Sometimes I feel as you describe, but I remember four things I was taught in rehab that allow me to re-frame my thoughts, that is, look at my self from a slightly different, but hugely more healthy, perspective.
I'm wondering about other people's experiences of guilt and shame. Many of us crossed some of our own lines...I know that at times, a memory of some of my past drunkeness, promisciousness...coming flooding back. I wonder who knows what about me. I am embarassed.
I always go back to staying sober and try to refocus on what I have accomplished... That is most important I think. 1. I am not a bad person trying to be good, I am a sick person trying to get better, and I'll just be damned if I'm going to be ashamed or embarassed about trying to get well, any more than I would be embarassed about recovering from a heart attack (done that already) or cancer.
2. I live in today. Yes, past actions do bring me some mental discomfort, but I remind myself they are PAST actions that cannot be undone. You gotta "live where your feets is at"...in today.
3. I absolutely hate cutesy sayings. I have to "live life on life's terms", while true, absolutely drives me bonkers when I hear it. With that said, one saying I try to keep in my mind daily is "it's none of my business what you think of me". There are two reasons that, for me, that is important to remember. First, when I worry about what someone else thinks of me, I am taking their inventory, and I have enough inventory of my own to deal with, thank you very much. Second, my friends...I'm talking real friends, not acquaintanances, know the good vs bad, sick vs well thing, and anyone else that would judge me on what I was rather than what I am can kiss my getting well ass...I just don't care what they think.
4. I remember that I am a child of God, my Higher Power. I know that my past actions were just that, actions, and actions don't hold a candle to beliefs in His eyes. I believe that we are "saved", whatever that means, by grace and by faith. No action, good or bad, will decide if I am saved. Only by grace and faith does He judge. Baptism, or as you Baptists call it sometimes, "getting dunked" (small attempt at humor Baptists, don't get all offended), is an action, and a good one, but it is an action. Lighting candles for the dead (see, I poke at Catholocism too) is an action that I don't believe does any good except to church bank accounts. Grace and faith...that's all that's needed for my God.
I don't know if this does any good. I hope it does...but treat it like anything else at an AA meeting...take what you can use and leave the rest on the table.
BubbaBob
Originally Posted by chrys
I'm wondering about other people's experiences of guilt and shame. Many of us crossed some of our own lines...I know that at times, a memory of some of my past drunkeness, promisciousness...coming flooding back. I wonder who knows what about me. I am embarassed.
I always go back to staying sober and try to refocus on what I have accomplished... That is most important I think.
2. I live in today. Yes, past actions do bring me some mental discomfort, but I remind myself they are PAST actions that cannot be undone. You gotta "live where your feets is at"...in today.
3. I absolutely hate cutesy sayings. I have to "live life on life's terms", while true, absolutely drives me bonkers when I hear it. With that said, one saying I try to keep in my mind daily is "it's none of my business what you think of me". There are two reasons that, for me, that is important to remember. First, when I worry about what someone else thinks of me, I am taking their inventory, and I have enough inventory of my own to deal with, thank you very much. Second, my friends...I'm talking real friends, not acquaintanances, know the good vs bad, sick vs well thing, and anyone else that would judge me on what I was rather than what I am can kiss my getting well ass...I just don't care what they think.
4. I remember that I am a child of God, my Higher Power. I know that my past actions were just that, actions, and actions don't hold a candle to beliefs in His eyes. I believe that we are "saved", whatever that means, by grace and by faith. No action, good or bad, will decide if I am saved. Only by grace and faith does He judge. Baptism, or as you Baptists call it sometimes, "getting dunked" (small attempt at humor Baptists, don't get all offended), is an action, and a good one, but it is an action. Lighting candles for the dead (see, I poke at Catholocism too) is an action that I don't believe does any good except to church bank accounts. Grace and faith...that's all that's needed for my God.
I don't know if this does any good. I hope it does...but treat it like anything else at an AA meeting...take what you can use and leave the rest on the table.
BubbaBob
NOT EVEN 1 CLUB!!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: When I find myself, I'll let you know!
Posts: 1,835
Chrys great topic and great answers everyone!!
Of course I feel bad about the pain I have caused others and the terrible things I have done. BUT, I never behaved that way when I wasn't drinking. That may sound like and excuse, but it's true and gives me some comfort.
I also believe, as previously said, what other people think of me is none of my business. With being sober and working the steps, every aspect of my life has changed for the better (thanks to my HP). I can't change my past, but believe me, people can sure see the change in me now!! And that's all that matters! Everyday I make a living amends.
Thankfully, I am no longer the person that did those bad things, but I will not forget that I did!!
Hugs to you,
Missy
Of course I feel bad about the pain I have caused others and the terrible things I have done. BUT, I never behaved that way when I wasn't drinking. That may sound like and excuse, but it's true and gives me some comfort.
I also believe, as previously said, what other people think of me is none of my business. With being sober and working the steps, every aspect of my life has changed for the better (thanks to my HP). I can't change my past, but believe me, people can sure see the change in me now!! And that's all that matters! Everyday I make a living amends.
Thankfully, I am no longer the person that did those bad things, but I will not forget that I did!!
Hugs to you,
Missy
Psalm 118:24
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ILLINOIS
Posts: 15,203
God forgives you, forgive yourself. Ask others you've done wrong to forgive you. That's a weight they have to bear if, they don't. Anyone that has taken an inventory of themselves knows they can't cast stones.
Ty
4
reminding me of this
chris
Ty
4
reminding me of this
chris
Last edited by CAPTAINZING2000; 01-31-2005 at 07:16 AM. Reason: spelling
My Boss is a Jewish Carpenter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 338
((((Chrys))))
Big Book, page 164:
Abandon yourself to God as you understand God. Admit your faults to Him and to your fellows.Clear away the wreckage of your past.
(end quote)
Some thoughts on that from me, over 16 years sober:
This summarizes steps one to nine. I think this is where your program is deficient. If you had done them properly, you wouldn't be feeling the way you are. You'd be able to stand tall, look the world in the eye, and be proud of yourself today, who you are today, and what you've done about your malady.
Get a sponsor. Rework the steps, especially shortcomings (7) and amends (9). Then you will have done all you can do.
I also think you're too hard on yourself. Everyone has regrets.
Humility is the ability to look in the mirror and see what's really there - nothing more, nothing less. You're seeing a lot less. Congratulations on your long-term sobriety. If you think I'm kidding, read some threads.
Remember, I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together.
Big Book, page 164:
Abandon yourself to God as you understand God. Admit your faults to Him and to your fellows.Clear away the wreckage of your past.
(end quote)
Some thoughts on that from me, over 16 years sober:
This summarizes steps one to nine. I think this is where your program is deficient. If you had done them properly, you wouldn't be feeling the way you are. You'd be able to stand tall, look the world in the eye, and be proud of yourself today, who you are today, and what you've done about your malady.
Get a sponsor. Rework the steps, especially shortcomings (7) and amends (9). Then you will have done all you can do.
I also think you're too hard on yourself. Everyone has regrets.
Humility is the ability to look in the mirror and see what's really there - nothing more, nothing less. You're seeing a lot less. Congratulations on your long-term sobriety. If you think I'm kidding, read some threads.
Remember, I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together.
Chrys
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 12
one of many
I am reminded that I am one of many. I have been reading and re-reading all the responses. Thank you. I was prompted today to open the Big Book. Yes I do have one. I landed somewhere in How it Works.
There are some real barriers to my attending an actual live AA meeting- really I'm not just making excuses- another post. But I do believe in the power of the program as well as some of the other more insight oriented and cognitive perspectives.
Prayers are powerful too.
There are some real barriers to my attending an actual live AA meeting- really I'm not just making excuses- another post. But I do believe in the power of the program as well as some of the other more insight oriented and cognitive perspectives.
Prayers are powerful too.
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