MrPL

Hey everyone,

Not sure this will make much sense, but reading Dostoyevsky’s “Notes from the Underground” I found what might be a compelling reason why I became an alcoholic. Ironically, it’s the same reason why I’m convinced I’m sober for good now.

Choice.

He says that out of the many things that can happen to us, out of the many good things that can happen, there’s one superior to all others - truly independent choice.

When I look back at my life, I was always a “good kid”, and pretty much followed the path that was expected of me naturally, kind of in autopilot.

I was always keen on choosing though, and explored a lot during my early teens - sports, martial arts, music, I went really deep into these things and I was happy, very happy.

Until I started getting ready to go to university, and when my story with heavy drinking and drugs begins.

I wanted to study, get a job, build a family, but I wanted this in a different way than my early teens choices. It was just the thing everybody did, including me, it was a logical thing to do, but it was an autopilot choice, and it took over.

I think this may have created some sort of frustration in me, and my pure independent choice was to get wasted at every opportunity, for 20 years.

Life kept moving in autopilot, and I kept choosing drink and drugs.

The same can also apply to anyone who sees themselves stuck in some sort of life that is not theirs, whatever the cause may be.

Drinking, even when we know it harms us, is a choice, it’s our own choice despite the consequences, and we accept the harm because we want the choice, it’s our way to say ****you to the system.

But if it’s a choice, it’s something we control, and we can choose differently.

It’s funny that on my first true sobriety attempt I went straight back to the same things I used to choose as a teenager, without even realising what I was doing.

It’s also why that attempt didn’t work, because I didn’t directly choose sobriety.

Now I understand what is different this time round. This time I truly, independently have chosen to be sober, to live a life without the influence of any substances. Sobriety is my choice, it’s my way to say **** you to the system.

It’s now also allowing me to review all those autopilot choices I made in the past, and to change my life by choice, do it my way.

Anyway, just another of my philosophical trips, hopefully it can help more of you make the same choice .

Worried14

Its an interesting thought MrPL.
Think about the studies they've done on identical twins that have been separated at birth. They find each other as adults and find they've both married at the same age to a similar woman sometimes even with the same name . They've had children sometimes choosing the same names and so it goes on.
Perhaps choice is an illusion.
I tend to believe that we're here in this life for the experience. We come from the Alpha and Omega of everything and nothing, have an experience, then go back. We experience right and wrong though ultimately there is no right and wrong, just what is. I'm not sure why we do this lol. I'm a non dualist.

MrPL

Interesting reply Worried! I agree that it’s hard to define what is ultimately right or wrong. However, I think we all know what is right or wrong for us at any given point. We may get confused sometimes, accidentally or deliberately, but deep inside I think we always know. Drinking and drugs never felt right, they just felt real at some point (until they didn’t ever again)

Worried14

For there to be right and wrong you need a judge. What if there were no people.

Mizz

I totally get where you are coming from. There is empowerment in "choice."

I was thinking about this the other day when I was triggered. Irritated. I thought "I am choosing to be sober. This is my choice entirely. I could not choose sobriety but we already know what that brings. So, I choose to get through this moment. Here I am "getting through" the moment"...... Lol.
Not that I was in any danger of relapse. I wasn't. I was just having a moment.....and then a bunch of marshmallows.....

We can choose any road we want. Playing the long game here. Its so much more rewarding.

Dee74

Thanks for sharing that MrPL

Drinking as I did was functionally no choice at all. I went with the flow and the flow was getting wasted.

I got my power of choice back when I accepted my addiction was real, virulent and a permanent fixture.

I know for me I was prone to philosophising as a way to stave off change, so for me action (not drinking and supporting that decision no matter what) was the key element in my path back to being able to exercise my choice to live a full and meaningful Life

My mind worked a lot better when I stopped poisoning it.

Worried14

Lol, definitely sounds like the right choice to me

MrPL

I think that there a still what we feel is right and what we feel is wrong, regarding our own actions and how they impact us and others. Mine may be different to yours, but in this forum, for example, we all agree drinking is wrong.

Worried14

Well, it's late here, night night folks I'm going to bed before I totally go off track and start pondering the meaning of life and why we are here - one of my fave topics - that and is there a conscious life after death and have people really had experiences with Aliens lol

MrPL

That’s it Mizz, it’s the right choice, which is often not the same as the easy or pleasant one, the important thing is that it yours

Colin1

I get that MrPL. After a few months of getting past the habit of drinking all the time, I changed my focus to my choice to not drink and that I really did not want to drink. Since I've really, truly, accepted this I have not had an urge to drink. I've never been able to internalize this before. Any time I've been sober for any length of time I felt I was missing something and always eventually relapsed. The mind is a very interesting thing

I keep thinking my AV is just waiting to hit me hard one day soon when I'm not expecting it, but so far so good. Wishing you all the best with it!

Steely

I think we have 'choice', but only within certain parameters. Sometimes there is no choice, only acceptance. i guess that's a choice tho.

Dostoyevsky was also a gambler, poor bugger.

Chevy123

Great Post Mrpl and interesting comments too . Iv just tried thinking to myself " this is my choice, I chose sobriety because that's what I want now"
It didn't half shut the AV dialogue down.

That's quite a revelation 🤔

Worried14

Ah, can't sleep, its after midnight but early sobriety for me...

Anyway, I like you post steely. Seems to bring another dimension to it.
It also brings us back to the Serenity Prayer !
Accepting things we can't change changing things we can etc.
Another bit of wisdom I learnt fromm AA was Keep It Simple Stupid Lol
I think that's what I'll do.
Today im not drinking tomorrow will take care of itself. Thats all i need to know, Is it a choice ? Who cares... one day at a time.

dwtbd

I’ve found that choice is fundamental to recovery. But with a twist , as almost all things recovery, lol (and that lol is shared and hopefully appreciated in a sense only we fellow travelers ‘get’ ).

Recovered is having chosen.

Call me lazy , lol, but I made one choice , I chose one time one thing , ... well actually two ; I chose to decide to never drink again And I chose to never change my mind about that decision. For me , it can’t be an open ended choice , I don’t allow ( btw I checked ,I’m allowed to bar any option ) , I don’t allow the option for more booze. For me it’s not an unending series of choices . In the past when it was a series of individual instances of ‘choosing right’ , I had an abysmal batting average.

I like the choice I made , and anytime a thought creeps up that questions the validity of that choice/decision I answer it with “hello AV”.

MrPL

I totally associate with that dwtbd (and Collin in post above).

Since I made the choice to be sober (different to choosing not to drink today, although that works for a lot of people so not saying it’s wrong), It is like alcohol doesn’t exist, and any thought of me drinking seems ludicrous and easy to handle, after all I don’t.

Loving everyone’s comments here, thanks guys!

DriGuy

First, I read Notes from the Underground 60 years ago as an assignment in a literature class, and I don't remember Dostoevsky's words of wisdom on choice specifically, but I do remember a lot of wisdom in the book. I had never read Dostoevsky before, but I decided to become a fan and read several of his better known works over the next couple of years, but none had the impact on me as Notes from the Underground. So maybe it's time for a reread because choice became an important step in my recovery. Although it was a discovery of my own. It was a simple discovery, but something I had overlooked, and really never understood the power that comes from it until I decided to actively use it.

I was in early recovery carried along mostly by a terrifying fear that I would relapse. Although the ugly cravings were now just memories, rather than actual events. I knew I would not relapse due to a gnawing craving, but there was this worry that, "But what if some mysterious force would take hold and cause me to drink, while hiding the terrible consequences of such an action from me." My terror of an accidental relapse was diminishing, but still, "What if...."

I decided I would have to rely on my choice from there out. Well duh?! Right? But the fact was I didn't realize how powerful choice was. Up until that time, I had blown off choice, as if there were more important factors and dangers than choice in relapse. But there really aren't. Choice is not something that could be taken away from me. I have and had the power of choice all along. I just never exercised it. But now with cravings reduced to nothing more than background noise, all I had to do was choose not to drink. That was easy, incredibly easy, but until that time, I had confused "easy" with "therefore ineffectual," which was patently a false perception. Choice is easy, recognizing it's true power was not.

Now, I'm going to find a copy of "Notes" and read it again.

DriGuy

Just found a used copy of Notes from the Underground on ebay for $4. I ordered it.

MrPL

haha. Awesome! I’m still in the first few chapters, but decided to log this choice insight as there’s a lot going on in the book so it may get lost later.

Loving it tough, my plan is to read his stuff in the order it’s been written this summer.

DriGuy

I thought "Notes" was an engaging read. But after that, I found the next three books I read to be a heavy slog. I gave up on Russian writers. I just looked up his bibliography, and I think there were only four books of his I read. So while I decided to be a fan, it was rather short lived.