Evoo

This is good advice. In early days the AV can try to push your boundaries in novel situations with thoughts like, “it’s a special occasion,” “I’m on vacation, I deserve this” — at least it did mine. Had some bad relapses at conferences.

Now I always use the hotel gym instead of hitting the bar. Just get a good workout, have a good meal, stay hydrated and hit the sack. Feel awesome for the trip home.

Hodd

🙂 It’s not just early days either. New situations can arrive which are either triggers or cause anxiety. I wrote a post recently about being in a pub with colleagues and being worried I’d be served an alcoholic drink by mistake. No big problem to resolve, but I was surprise how anxious that made me (after two and a half years sober). I’m sure there are unknown triggers ahead to test us, but we can try and plan ahead.

Evoo

Ah, interesting. Makes sense. It’s hard to anticipate triggers in a world where the drug is literally everywhere you go, in every corner gas station, at every social event etc.

But it does sound like you are secure in your sobriety, I’ve never gone 2 1/2 years without a single drink (relatively speaking I’m still new to this).

Do you really feel like you’re in danger of relapsing? Or do you think maybe it’s the anxiety itself latching itself to something? Maybe if you focus on tools for anxiety/mindfulness you’ll find some relief from the fear of triggers. Practically speaking, if someone accidentally served you alcohol would you really want it? Or would you send it back?

Edit: looking back I’ve never had a “spur of the moment” relapse. In every situation my AV had been eroding my will in the days and weeks before.

Hodd

You’ll get there.

Good question. Right now, I feel fine. I’ve had cravings, but these have been absent for a few months now. To counter any risk, I don’t have any alcohol in the house.

The biggest shield in my battle against relapsing is to be under no illusions about what would happen next. It’s hard to grasp for someone with no history of alcohol problems. A dieter can slip and have one bar of chocolate, and there’ll be no harm done. If I have one drink, I 100% will want one the next day and the next. At the very least, I’d have a few nasty weeks of withdrawal all over again. Knowing the outcome has stopped me relapsing. So I’m not in constant fear as such, just never complacent 👍

dustyfox

Yes Totally! That is well put. I KNOW that one drink will lead to many more and definitely days, maybe weeks, maybe years of drinking before I stop - that thought I keep in my head at all times, tucked away or sometimes I bring the thought right to the front of my consciousness so I just KNOW I will not / can not/must not pick up.

silentrun

I still get that way even after 8 years. If someone starts romancing a drink in front of me I get very anxious. I had to turn off a documentary about alcoholism because of that. I think of it as a detection device now.

Hodd

I only knew any drinking at all was a no no from reading this site. I went away and read up about GABA receptor and why we’ve been unfortunately rewired in our heads to be susceptible to relapsing, but it’s not really written anywhere that an alcoholic/alcohol dependent won’t be able to drink again as an occasional or moderate drinker.

nez

All I need to know is that it is written on my soul that this alcoholic will never be able to drink as an occasional or moderate drinker. Hell I don't think I ever was an occasional or moderate drinker!!!

Evoo

I’ve successfully “moderated” for long periods of time, but it was a hell of a lot of work — with “rules” and planning. And I always *wanted* more and occasionally “overdid it” on a “special occasion.” I probably could’ve continued that way indefinitely without ever going back to the kind of hardcore alcoholism of my late 20s. My experience with moderation management was painful and often ineffective. I’d have too much, binge for a few days, get really sick, recover, and start “moderating” again.

But why? For what? For whom? I certainly didn’t enjoy it. I just wanted to feel “normal.”

Moderate drinking shouldn’t require anxiety-producing hard work and extreme willpower. Not worth it for me.

biminiblue

^^Yup. I could have written that, what Evoo just posted. Word for word.

I started back drinking after many years of sober life. I drank "moderately" for a while. Most of the time. It was truly painful when I didn't and that was becoming more frequent, so time to give it up again. I never planned to over-imbibe but that is the natural progression of things and it happened without my intention.

I already did the experiment now and I won't be doing that again. Not in this lifetime.

I know life is far better without alcohol and anything less than total abstinence is no longer an option in the back of my mind.

spen71

Don’t do it! During one of my many attempts to stop drinking I had 4 bottles of non-alcoholic beer. Just gave me the “taste” and was back on beer next day

Hodd

I’ve mentioned this before. I know a guy who’s as alcoholic as they come, but he usually manages to keep his alcohol intake to within the UK government’s healthy limit of 14 units. A unit is a confusing measurement, but 14 units is about 7 large glasses of wine or 7 large beers.

If it wasn’t such a serious topic, this guy’s actions would be comical. He buys his 14 units at the start of each week. He usually finishes them
by day 4 and literally sits on his hands until the new week starts. Any of us reading could probably manage that, but what a wretched existence. He must crave beyond belief for those three days, and things won’t be much better on his drinking days. If alcohol was some sort of devil, it’s got him firmly by the balls and laughing at him.

It still amazes me when it all clicked into place, how easy it was to quit. To try and moderate like that guy is a total waste of life.

Evoo

Oh yeah — this is a great thing to order at a restaurant. Also sometimes it’s nice when others are drinking to have something that isn’t Diet Coke or water. I’d order kombucha at restaurants, but it’s not really offered yet.

Same, Dee. It’s amazing how much of my worry over this was all in my own head (and AV).

This was my experience. I was thirsty and drank down an NA beer in a few seconds. My brain immediately expected alcohol and I became very anxious and made the decision to grab a real beer (I was at a big family party so alcohol was everywhere). I didn’t get drunk immediately, but I’d let my AV back in and had a plan for drinking that night. It would be several months of bad moderating before I got back on track. No thanks.

Free2bme888

Very thoughtful and interesting thoughts one the process.

Since I didn’t ‘smoke’ candy cigs to fit in when I quit smoking almost 34 years ago, I have come to the conclusion that it was my AV contemplating the NA wine.

I think for me, part of my recipe for staying sober and not torturing myself will be no NA drinks disguised as the real poison…

Thesaviour

I think for many it is a stepping stone towards permanent abstinence.

From what I have observed a lot of moderation management and harm reduction can be a way to phase out or transition from the "cold turkey quit then binge drinking , then cold turkey quit, then binge drinking, then cold turkey quit then binge drinking" merry go round that many will perpetually ride...

Transitional as judging by comments, many do "achieve" a level of moderation management and then decide.....this is not worth the effort. by then the binge / cold turkey cycle has been phased out and going to permanent abstinence is a smooth and effortless next phase.

it would appear.

Evoo

This may not be for everyone, but I absolutely love kombucha. I started it shortly after getting sober, and it has a tang of fermentation and flavor profile that I love — but my brain doesn’t associate the flavor with intoxication but rather good health and well-being. It’s fun to know I can still appreciate a complex drink that is very much its own thing — not some weak approximation of an intoxicant.

Though again, not for everyone. I’ve heard from some here who say kombucha messes with their AV, in which case — I’d avoid entirely.

dustyfox

I love Kombucha - It does have a great taste - I am thinking about making my own - I am a seeker after complex tastes for my demanding taste buds - be that Coffee or Curry or Chilli or anything spicy - Kombucha gratifies them!

Hodd

Oh yes, I tried it all. I kept a diary of alcohol intake and tried really hard to keep within sensible limits, but it was excruciating to do so every night. I’d never bought in bulk for obvious reasons, and to my credit, I rarely went out again to buy more booze, but I’d feel so unsatisfied and in need of more. I was and am clearly alcohol dependent so that nightly performance was totally unsustainable. I soon forgot about the diary and drank heavily again. Those nightly cravings when I tried to moderate where the worst I’ve ever had. Once I knew I had to quit, the cravings reduced within days/weeks to manageable levels, and it dawned on me that quitting was a lot easier than my so-called moderating.

ScottFromWI

It's also worth mentioning that since kombucha is a fermented product, it does contain very small amounts of alcohol. At least in the us, it has to be less than 0.5 percent to be sold as a non-alcoholic beverage. Having said that you can find home or "natural" brewed versions that can contain significantly higher alcohol content - up to 3% in some cases, which is getting close to the beer range. Bottom line you need to know your ingredients and understand your reasonings for drinking/eating any food product that may contain traces of alcohol.

Thesaviour

It's worth bearing in mind something in the spirit of honesty:

i see many who are on the teetotal track say "I simply wanted to be sober more than I wanted to continue what I was doing (being a drunk)"

this is huge as it explains motivation as a huge driving factor. "I wanted to be sober more than I wanted to be drunk". there is a driving factor behind this....

there has to be a huge driving factor to want to moderate before you have any chance to moderate. Now, "i should moderate as the consequences of my continuing to be a drunk are too much" is not a huge driving factor.

Why? because the desire to get blasted drunk is still alive and kicking. "should moderate" won't stand a chance agains a burning desire to get drunk.

We have to be honest: those who have successfully gone on to the moderating track as a stronger desire and preference over being completely sober or being a drunk, are not to be found on this website or in AA. so they are like they don't exist unmongst us.

i realize I have "love" to get wasted and escape all of my problems by going into oblivion (but I hate the consequences...) Therefor I can fool myself thinking "I wan't to moderate" when really I still desire to get wasted (but just wish the consequences were the results of moderate drinking.

Once the desire is still there to get wasted, as a preference, you won't choose to moderate as it is not your real preference.

now if I truly believe that moderation would be preferable to getting wasted (the desire is loosing it's appeal) then it would be possible. The simple fact that I believe it is possible and I desire it to be possible would render it possible. those in a addiction often can't envisage a sober life until they desire it fully and believe in it fully. Same with moderation and it is the same with being a drunk.