SouthernSober

So a number of folks in my class have seconded an idea for a Sleep and Nutrition thread. I'm still learning to navigate my way around, but I'll give this a shot.

I posted earlier that things like sleep, nutrition and exercise are part and parcel of my recovery. They're also things that comprise a positive cycle vs. the vicious circle of active addiction. They promote recovery, and in turn recovery enables you to purse all sorts of important things that were lacking or absent in addiction.

Without going off on a tangent, "sleep hygiene" is a challenge for a huge percentage of many populations. Normie or alkie, we don't get enough sleep. And the sleep we do get is compromised. Especially in the digital age, when we are plugged in near constantly, sometimes even in the bedroom.

Same for exercise. My own personal view is that COVID magnifies almost everything, and issues like obesity, stress-related mental health issues, and fatigue are prime examples.

You get the drift as it pertains to nutrition. Few of us can say "Naw, I'm good to go--can't really make any improvements." Meantime, logistics, inflation and time constraints today make it tougher than ever to stay healthy and consistent.

I hope we encourage eclectic suggestions and discussions. A few guidelines (most of which are based on SR itself), please:

1. Any of these topics are health related, so again, let's remember the boundary of no medical advice.

2. Let's be open-minded. Take what you need, leave the rest. If you are a diabetic or just think IF (Intermittent Fasting) is stupid, skip the post(s) and move on to something else. Everybody has different views and health needs.

3. Let's be positive.

I will check responses/interest and try to post some things to get us going. Welcome your input and participation. best, SS

Bethany57

This is a great thread....as I suffer from binge eating. I also suffer from insomnia....they kind of go hand in hand...when I am really tired I binge. When I eat healthy and get OK sleep I feel so much better.
I try to eat healthy and exercise...but I fall off the wagon way (food wise) too much.
I'm glad you started this thread.

Cityboy

At least for me, it's all connected, partly in the way you describe. Better sleep and nutrition help promote a healthy lifestyle, and vice versa, which puts you in a better position to avoid alcohol and other addictions. On the other hand, a nice dinner of fried fish and cheese grits, or a nice rib eye and baked potato with some butter, sour cream, and cajun seasoning keep life interesting and give you something to look forward to. Or a trip to the frozen yogurt place give you something fun to do with the significant other. The mental aspect is huge also. Unresolved conflict, resentments, anxiety, guilt, fear, all reinforced the cycle of alcohol addiction, and vice versa. That was why saying "never again" after getting up with a hangover was never going to work. It had to be a comprehensive approach. Knock down a couple of dominoes and gain some strength with which to knock down a couple more, and keep it going. It's the only way.

venuscat

Awesome post dear SS.

As you know, I am on board all the way. ❤️

SouthernSober

Off to a good start! Thanks y'all. 😎

Binge eating while tired...does anyone else notice this trend? How about HALT (Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired)--usually refers to sobriety threats but can also apply to other threats to holistic living ("HL"). Does our mood and/or circumstances affect HL?

Reward systems--in my view (I will say that from time to time to stress it's just that, my view and we're all different with different needs and circumstances), a program based on denial will be short-lived at best and is a recipe for both failure and monotony (which is a hidden danger to sobriety, at least for me). In all things I would ask: what will I do with my sobriety? Answer is: a million different things. So yes, by all means have that ribeye with loaded baked potato, hit the frozen yogurt place with your SO. I myself have a burger or steak every weekend, a no-sugar-added Klondike bar nightly, and insist on great coffee with real cream. I find that other than alcohol...I'm pretty good with moderation. I can indulge in a block of great dark chocolate and then not even think about it for days. The other thing is that small rewards like that enable me to follow my usual strict regimen of IF (intermittent fasting) and veggies/salad/lean protein daily.

Insomnia. We could probably fill an entire thread with just that, but let's weave it into this one. I've seen several posts about it in a short time. One starter question: just as it's advisable to consult a medical provider to start/re-boot a diet/exercise program...would you not want to rule out any medical issues that might be causing the insomnia? I have sleep apnea, which I suspected I not only had but was hereditary; I didn't know how bad it was 'til I went to the sleep clinic and got a CPAP device. I hate the damn thing, but that's just more incentive to be healthy enough to not need it eventually.

BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front): I have found that the more I stick to my routine/regimen, the less I have to worry about my sleep hygiene. Actually, I usually fall asleep within minutes. Another question: what type of insomnia do people have? Trouble falling asleep, staying asleep, both? Waking up too early?

I'll wrap this up with one major suggestion: the principle of Backwards Planning. This is a tool used in the Army as the paradigm for military operations. Most people come up with a goal or event and make a list forward. The Army will list the desired end state/objective and work backwards to the first thing. How well does it work? Well enough that when there's a major natural disaster that has nothing to do with combat, guess who gets the call. So here it would be: e.g. I want to lose 50 pounds, or kick my dependence on sugar, or address my insomnia. Set a time frame and desired end state, then work backwards to what do I have to do today to get it going?

best, SS

ClearPath64

Great stuff SS, and so much to respond to. However, I'll keep it simple and respond to your question regarding type of insomnia. Like you, I tend to fall asleep right away. No issues there. My issue is getting back to sleep after nature calls, usually about five hours in. Doesn't matter if I stop drinking any type of liquid by 6:00pm. I'm going to wake up once. Then it's next to impossible for me to get back to sleep. I'm pretty good about keeping a regular sleep schedule, getting to bed nightly between 9-9:30. I also keep the room dark and cool, which I feel are important to good sleep. I just haven't found a consistent solution to getting back to sleep.

Thanks for starting this helpful thread.

SnazzyDresser

I try to minimize sugar, soda, highly processed foods and try to hit 100g of protein a day and stay under 2500 calories. I walk several miles a day, real walking outside in real 3d space. I love my strong black coffee but try to minimize even that after 6pm to maximize sleep. I do 30 minutes a day of Buddhist-style meditation to cool my monkey mind down a few degrees.

Free2bme888

Thanks SS

My insomnia started when I was a little girl, when my mum would pass out drunk and drop lit cigs on the carpet. I was always afraid of being burned alive, and I stayed awake when I was 8 to wait until she passed out, then put her cig out after she dropped it on the floor. To take it out of her hand before then was a DISASTER.

Another PTSD for me was in 1986, in KCMO (Kansas City, Missouri). I was a single parent, worked three jobs seven days a week, when someone came into my apartment in the middle of the night. I saw the flashlight coming In my window, checking out how many people were in my bed. I thought it was my ex, he was crazy. So I ignored it. Then I heard someone in my kitchen. I got up, opened a creaky drawer to get a t-shirt on, I thought it was my three year old daughter sleepwalking. I moved down the hall, in the dark, opened her door. She was sleeping in her bed. So I walked in the dark to the dining room, and flipped on the light. I saw someone leaving the front door, and on the back of my couch was a huge roll of duct tape, and the largest butcher knife of my collection. No gun, no 911 Back then. Terrified. Cops said they weren’t there to steal, they were there to rape and kill. With the element of surprise gone, and the possibility to the perp(s) that I was fetching a gun probably saved my life.

So, for me, getting to sleep, which is why I tried to numb myself out in the past is the toughest part. To turn off my brain. Never worked, so being sober now, sleep is much better, although last night I woke up about three hours ago. Peed, that wasn’t it, the trauma of last weeks ordeal were ruminating in my head (false accusations from boss and horizontal hostility from charge nurse).

So I now take an OTC (over the counter) Walmart brand sleeping pill nightly -it’s an antihistamine, not Benadryl though. It helps. I also like to physically exhaust myself, which heals and nourishes my soul and my body, and sets it right for sleep.

Thanks for great thread, SS

Cityboy

Free2b, wow, thank goodness that incident ended the way it did!

SouthernSober

Thanks, CP.

Does anyone have tips to share regarding falling back to sleep? I usually have a few slices of turkey breast with a slice of swiss, then read for ~15 minutes before giving it another try.

SouthernSober

Thanks, Free. Wow.

As a Veteran with PTSD, I have tried just about every medication and modality, including sleep. I was prescribed Prazosin for nightmares and Seroquel for sleep. Effective, but trying to wean my way off and Seroquel is linked to major weight gain.

I really relate to the idea of physically exhausting oneself. Not just for a solid not night's sleep, but also because as the AA joke goes, "we're too tired to drink."

Snazzy, thanks for the tips and I would love to see more here about meditation.

Which segues into...going to/falling back to sleep...what works for y'all? Deep breathing? Meditation? Visualization?

venuscat

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MidnightBlue

Hi, guys.

Such a vast topic to talk about.

Binge eating is a quite a beat on its own, which, unfortunately, I know too well.

As for insomnia, I take magnesium threonate to improve quality of sleep. Sticking to the same wake up-go to sleep time really helps too. When I get up at 5 a.m. and don't skip a workout, usually I have no problem with falling asleep. \

And, yes, sugar is pure evil. I rarely, if ever, eat added sugar, but even when I overdo on fruit or dried fruit, it messes up with my sleep big time.

advbike

Good thread topic - thanks SS.

Exercise is so important to my health and sobriety - I bike hard 6-7 hours a week, walk a few times and do some light weights. This is really my cornerstone, as it helps with sleep, keeps my weight within range and is so good at reducing anxiety and stress, which keeps me sober.

I do love to eat, especially carbs (mostly healthy) and have a sweet tooth (not healthy). This has been an issue since I was a kid. I try to hold the sweets to one San Pellegrino fruit soda a day, or two if I'm doing outside work in the heat, and I occasionally get a gelato.. Sometimes when I shop for groceries however, there is a binge, like yesterday when I bought pudding and ALSO had cheese and crackers. Arrrgh.. I had lost a couple pounds recently and the system tends to want to replace the fat, so I was hungry but there were not enough veggies at the party, lol.

My sleep is fine if I haven't had coffee after lunch, but if I do it will be interrupted. Even a soda in the evening will do that. I normally have to get up once or twice at night, the difference is how easily I fall back to sleep. Sugar or excess caffeine during the day seems to get my mind going, and makes getting back to sleep that much more difficult.

VikingGF

Great thread, SS. Thanks for starting it up!

Free- Your story is going to wake me up tonight- I'm so glad it turned out the way it did, but how terrifying....

So my monster isn't sleep, at least not anymore. Stopping the drink has completely fixed that dreaded 3AM wake up for me. My monster has been my weight my whole dang life. Fighting it, giving up, giving in, crying, self-hatred, trying every diet known to man and woman with some good short-term success. Then I met my true savior, and it's called intermittent fasting. I do not exaggerate when I say it saved my life and gave me my self-respect back. I already knew that I did best with very little carbs- I lost a lot of weight on Atkins, but I didn't figure out that fasting was the other piece of the puzzle. So I started doing this seriously in February and dropped 4 (as of today, 5) sizes. I still have some pounds to go, but I no longer feel hopeless or fear my scale. Thanks to the weight I lost, I have managed to limit some of the damage I did by drinking, of this I am sure. Just like not drinking, IF is my way of life and I don't intend to ever stop. If I hit a plateau, I just shift my hours around or change up the type of calories I eat for a week or so and the weight comes off again. Plus, being more of a manageable size, I now exercise and feel good. (I had always been active- but at my heaviest I just freaking gave up.)

I have been working on myself so hard since I stopped drinking that I'm glad my diet was already figured out, I do admit I used ice cream for a bit of time to get through the first few weeks, but I knew how to compensate and am back to my usual intake. I eat well, but not perfectly, but as I've learned, for me, it's not so much what I eat as WHEN. I am usually done eating anything by 3-4 PM.

Looking forward to hearing more about everyone's journeys and learning some new things as well.

Free2bme888

I’m a fan of Wayne Dyer, and I don’t know how to post his YouTube link “Do this every night 5 minutes before you go to sleep”

For me, very spiritual (not in a particular religious way), but has beautiful music, visuals, and of course Wayne’s soothing voice. It helps self positive affirmation, pushes out the negative thoughts for five minutes, and sometimes it really really helps lessen the time I toss and turn awaiting sleep.

SouthernSober

Off to a good start! Lots of good topics and suggestions.

Weight control/loss will always be a principle topic. Sugar has been "the new smoking" for a while. We could devote an entire thread. But there are all kinds of sugar, overt and covert, in all kinds of places. They range from really and obviously bad (e.g. regular soda with HFCS and 39g sugar in a 12-oz can) to seemingly innocuous ones like agave or fructose in fruit [BTW--anytime my science or nomenclature is wrong, please let me know]. Kinna same thing with salt: we know sodium should be limited (2K mg/day?), but there is a huge difference between a couple cranks of pink Himalaya sea salt grinder and snarfing down a bag of chips.

The other thing about sugar is *inflammation*--another topic I hope to see discussed here. It's beyond the scope of this thread, but a lot of people believe many sugars and simple starches feed both inflammation and even cancer. Does anyone have a plan(s) for reducing inflammation?

Which segues into...IF (Intermittent Fasting). Like Keto--actually, a lot of people use it in conjunction with IF--it has its pro and con crowds. I am a big believer in IF, although I know many people might be better off with a near-opposite plan (e.g. 6 mini-meals throughout the day and the "keep the furnace burning" concept). It's easier for me because between a military career and grad school, I just got used to not eating and/or not being hungry 12-18 hours at a time. I'm working on something and focused, I just want water and sometimes coffee. Haven't eaten breakfast in over a decade. But in the evening after the gym, I could eat the ass end of a rhino. 😎

I like IF for two big reasons: 1/yes, I think for older people, it helps with weight control; 2/yes, I think it hugely reduces inflammation. One caveat: I do NOT think it's a good idea if alcohol cravings are persistent. Hungry - Angry - Lonely - Tired all things to avoid.

I also believe...***as a general rule for most healthy people***, lower carb and higher lean protein is a winning strategy. But I divide carbs into simple (very few) and complex (veggies, basically). These days, I try to do the 2/3, 1/3 plate thing...2/3 veggies or salad, 1/3 lean protein.

OK, that's a fair bit of stuff. Again, these are all loosely connected practices and observations that may or may not be right for some people. Please take what you need, leave the rest. Hope this thread will be diverse, valuable information discussed respectfully per SR guidelines. best, SS

SnazzyDresser

I'm not hardcore enough to plunk down on the floor and bend myself into a lotus position, that's for sure. I sit in a chair without my back touching its back, reasonably good posture, and think about my breath. I think "I'm breathing in and I know I'm breathing in. I'm breathing out, and I know I'm breathing out." When my mind runs away to find some distraction I non-judgmentally return its attention to the breath. It's simple but also can be extremely taxing, odd how that works!

And I sure didn't start out being able to do this for 30 minutes at a time. Lol I started out laying down on my bed and going 2 minutes, then 3 minutes, pushing for 5 minutes the next night, etc. I was crazy skeptical of this at first but I'll be damned if it doesn't work. Basically by doing absolutely nothing except breathing you're training your mind in several beneficial ways: to actually notice what you're seeing, thinking, and feeling at any given point (mindful!), to concentrate on something without tensing up, to notice how often and how subtly we're drawn to distraction and diversion, etc. on and on. And of course when it all comes together it can be very calming, relaxing, refreshing, even invigorating.

DriGuy

During college, I started a slow weight gain from 175 pounds, and after years and years of drinking and eating, I hit a high of around 230, and then dropped to 225 for several years. I dieted off and on, lost weight, gained weight, but I have always been active, granted with increasing difficulty as I got older. About 12 months ago, I dieted and went down to 210 and more or less gave up, and stayed there for 7 months. Five months ago, something clicked, and I decided enough was enough. I don't know why this happened, but I decided to get serious and not become disillusioned when I hit a plateau. This morning, I was at 186 pounds, and I haven't even gone out for my morning trail hike yet. I'm 10 pounds away from what I consider my ideal weight, and when I hit 175, I will re-evaluate and decide if I need to lose another 5 pounds or where I should go from there.

Now as to the topic, weight and health involves healthy food, and this aspect of health requires changes. I'm not fond of the word "holistic". It kind of reminds me of incense, chimes, and mysticism, but there is more there that is flat out medically good sense. I've lost my desire for red meat, and I'm starting to think, "Yee gods! I'm starting to feel like one of those holistic vegetarian types (minus the holistics, of course)." OK, I'm kidding -- sorta.

But the bottom line is that just like with my alcoholism, I'm starting to wonder what I've been doing with my life all along. I'm going to be 78 this month, and I never really expected to get this far, and what's really astonishing to me, is that I never thought I could feel this good at this age. The trails are not as steep or long as they were a year ago, and I'm covering ground at a faster pace, usually without stopping. I had to sit down and take a stone out of my boot yesterday, and just stopping was annoying in a funny way. Cutting out the junk food, being lighter, and yes, I believe I'm actually thinking clearer, along with something akin to an addiction for that morning hike, and I feel like I'm starting a new life. Actually, it's just a different phase, and those days of clocking 20 miles over a strenuous trail crossing a ridge and coming out the next valley, are in the past... Well, I think they are... Yeah, they probably are, but my life has really taken a surprising turn, and I feel good.

Looking for something to do after you quit drinking? One suggestion is pay attention to your health. It can make a big difference in your life. Like my recovery from alcohol, I wish I would have done this sooner, but I'm happy to settle for doing it now, so it's not a bitter pill.

Bethany57

Love this thread! Health is wealth. I tell myself that every day! Working hard all my life to save for a life in retirement means nothing without your health. I do agree sugar causes inflammation and that is so bad for our body. When I eat clean I feel so much better and want to exercise. Sugar to me is like alcohol for many. i cannot have just one. I don't know what causes this but I will continue to consume sometimes until I just pass out. I will wake up with an awful sugar hangover for two days until my mind can again focus. I really believe sugar is just so bad and it is hidden in EVERYTHING. Everything!
I do have problems with insomnia and trouble falling back to sleep like you SouthSober. It helps for me to read some and also I do this 7.7.7 thing. You breath in for 7 seconds...breath out for 7 seconds and do this 7 times. It may help and can't hurt.
I don't do IF but I know it helps for some. I get too light headed if I don't eat in the morning. Exercise is critical for me. I am in two running groups and I run almost every day.
This is a huge help to not only my physical health as well as my mental health.
Remember....health is wealth!