TroubleAfoot

I don't expect my best friend to live much longer than a couple of years, maximum, if he doesn't stop drinking. I've known him for 17 years and we drank hard, together, for about 14 of those and amassed many of those epic (and often times dangerous and stupid) drinking stories we drunks all have. He moved away, about three years ago, but he moved back six months ago. Five months ago I quit drinking but, as he really is a good guy and my best friend, I hang out with him every now and again even though I remain sober while he drinks.

A year and a half ago he was hospitalized for seven days and told he had cirrhosis. He quit drinking for six months, and began to feel much better, so he started drinking again and it has reached a point where it is absolutely out of control. I suspect he starts drinking shortly after waking up in the morning and then drinks all day. He is between jobs and is living on savings and income his wife of one year (and who I believe enables him) brings in. We live in a small town and everyone knows everyone. And because everyone knows what tight friends we are I have had countless people come up to me and tell me how most of the time they see him he is drunk and that, physically, he looks terrible. Which he does. Most of these people are telling me this because they also care about him.

Two months ago I called him and told him what people were saying and that I too thought he was drinking too much. He said, coming from me, he respected what I had to say and admitted he also thought he was drinking too much and needed to "slow down." He hasn't. I figured I did my part, what I needed to do, and that he's a grown man and will either fix himself or not.

The other night he did something stupid and has been permanently 86ed from one of the most popular drinking and hang-out establishments in our little mountain town. My thoughts on him lately, and I feel guilty and horrible for saying this, is that he has become pathetic. I don't like being around him anymore. He's not an angry or belligerent drunk. He's just a sad, pathetic drunk.

He has had many successes in life and I know the person he is, the person he can be again, if he can put himself back together. I am deeply concerned for his life and wonder if there is anything else I can do. He obviously has deep personal demons which drive his addiction and, being so close to him, I know a little about what those are. However I don't know how to help him conquer them. I thought saying my piece and confronting him about it was enough, was all I could do, but can I do more? Is it time for tough love? As in do I brutally call him out on what he has become? It seems harsh and I don't want to drive him even deeper into his addiction. I don't want him to misinterpret my concern as betrayal. Do I try the soft approach again?

And then, having said all of this, there is a part of me that wonders if maybe I'm overreacting because he acts like nothing is wrong. When I catch him in the mornings, and he is still sober, he seems like the same likeable guy he always has been.

I read that 50 percent of people who are diagnosed with cirrhosis are dead within, depending on the source, 2 to 5 years. I am sure that the ones who keep drinking are the majority of the deceased.

Thank you for reading. Any advice and/or insights are deeply appreciated as I've never been in a situation like this before.

Cityboy

Sounds like you are setting a good example by having quit yourself. That may be the best you can do. A positive example. In the end, I had to decide for myself because I was finally sick of that lifestyle. Not sure what anyone could have said to push me over that edge. I have a couple of friends who had already quit and they helped somewhat by their example.

Reid82

It is a tough situation for you to watch but at the end of the day your friend will only want to stop himself. You can only lead by example but I've seen so
many people pushed into meetings, rehabs, etc and they simply kept on drinking. They need to really want it deep down.

Be careful of your recovery in this too, you're still in early recovery and you need to protect that.

Dee74

I hope your friend, like most of us here , has that window of clarity where he can straighten himself out, TroubleAfoot.

D

FreeOwl

Since you asked for advice, I'll give you my reflection and what I feel I'd be compelled to do given the information you've shared here....

I'd revisit the conversation I had previously. I'd remind him he said he 'respected what I had to say' and I'd tell him what you said above. That you no longer like being around him and that he's becoming sad and pathetic.

Then I'd tell him "you don't need to 'slow down'.... you need to embrace sobriety and be the man you truly are, be the person you're capable of being, live the life you are here to live, and to give..... and listen; when you're ready to do whatever it takes to achieve that - I'm here for you. Until then, I'd prefer not to even be around you. I need to establish boundaries for my own emotional health. I care about you, and I can't stand by and watch you kill yourself."

Then, I'd hold to that. And I would simply not see him anymore - unless and until he truly gave himself to a program of recovery.

TroubleAfoot

Thanks for everyone's replies. I appreciate it:

I got sick of it too. And while I am 100 percent able to take part in social situations, where there is drinking all around me, extremely drunk people are increasingly becoming a turn-off to me. I seem to be more acutely aware of what it does to people even though, if I am to be honest, I had many great times drinking before it was, in the end, a long slow decline into anxiety, remorse, and regret not to mention poor health.

Thanks. You answered my question regarding the "tough love" approach. I don't think I'm ready to separate yet but I may be close. Aside from the fact that I care about him his actions don't have much affect on my personal life. It is sad to witness this go down though.

Indeed. Ironically the stress of this situation has made me think about drinking. I won't though because, ultimately, seeing what alcohol can do to someone is serving to turn me even more off from wanting to drink it. I know that it only takes one moment of weakness, that must always be guarded against, but the longer I remain sober the more the idea of drinking becomes less attractive and only a part of the old me that I do not want to be anymore.

I know he needs to decide for himself. I hope he makes the right decision. Hell for all I know maybe, deep down, he has already decided to give up and that's all there is to it. With being hospitalized for cirrhosis, quitting for awhile thereafter and making vast improvements in his health, I feel he has already been given a second chance. I don't know that he'll get a third one.

TroubleAfoot

Thanks Dee! For your reply and for everything you do around here.

Hodd

This is a great reply, Cityboy. We of all people know that it’s impossible/unlikely that a drinker will quit as a result of others telling them to. Only the drinker can make themselves quit, and what a cruel and heartbreaking prospect that is for their loved ones.

And TroubleAfoot, you sound like a great friend and example. I’m lucky to have escaped liver disease, but cirrhosis isn’t a death sentence if it’s compensated, i.e. enough of the liver is still working. Your friend could turn this around and have his life back. Maybe point him in the direction of a liver health forum to see some success stories. Good luck, and I hope he turns things around.

FreeOwl

The trouble with YOU not being ready to separate yet..... is that you're actually not doing him any favors, nor are you really doing yourself honor.

You said yourself that you no longer like to be around him, you've expressed clearly how you feel to him, and yet he persists in his spiral.

My reflection for your consideration is this: Who are you serving by being around someone you don't like? How is your continued support - even just emotional support - contributing to his willingness to change? In my experience and in that of many hundreds of others I've known in recovery - we only make the decision to recovery when we personally decide 'our lives have become unmanageable'. Often the best way to 'help' someone come to that conclusion is to tell them clearly "I cannot be around you, or support you, or be connected with you as you continue your downward spiral with alcohol. It also threatens MY sobriety, which is something I cannot accept in my life. For these reasons, I have to let you know I have a new, clear, firm boundary on our friendship. Though I love and care for you, and though it pains me to say it - I cannot continue engaging in our friendship at this time. If you should choose to embrace sobriety and need some help with that - I will absolutely be there. I will be glad to support your sobriety as a friend and fellow alcoholic.... but what that's going to mean is that your actions need to demonstrate that you're actually committed to doing whatever it takes to get sober. I'll drive you to a meeting. I'll meet you for coffee to listen to your progress, to support you in step work, to be there so you won't drink. What I WON'T do is: give you money. Support you even emotionally if you're not actively taking steps in recovery, engage in dialogue with you when you're drunk, or take on any of your responsibility for your own recovery. I'm here for you when you're ready to jump in and get it done."

TroubleAfoot

Thanks Hodd. I agree about cirrhosis. The liver can heal. He thinks he'll be fine because he isn't drinking whiskey anymore but, rather, "only beer." It is a delusion of the highest order.

TroubleAfoot

Your point is well taken and I am certainly considering it. I have just begun to process all of this, over the past few days, and am still trying to sort it all out. I should probably clarify that I can't stand to be around him once he gets exceedingly drunk. Of course this is usually earlier in the day or afternoon. Though I may have implied it he is not insufferable all the time. I wouldn't be friends with him if he was.

Hodd

I’ve heard that sort of talk a lot. It’s the same substance (ethanol) going through the liver whether the drink of choice is a light beer or gutrot moonshine.

A friend of my wife’s has alcohol-related cirrhosis of the very worst kind. This person needs a transplant and has to go to hospital every few days to have their abdomen drained. I can’t think of a poorer quality of life than what that person has. It shook my wife to the core as she knew I would’ve probably been like that in the very near future if I hadn’t quit. Your friend should consider himself lucky to not be at that stage yet.

Not good. Can I ask what your friend’s approximate age is? It’s just that I’m 52 and doing all sorts of great stuff now, and I keep hearing of people my age dying of lifestyle-related illnesses. One thing that struck me when I was still drinking was a radio interview with a liver doctor who was giving a warning message about alcohol. The interviewer posed the question that some people accept the risks and are OK to die younger. The doctor replied that so many of those people ask or beg to be helped when it’s too late. I don’t believe anyone lying on their death bed dying of an alcohol-related condition doesn’t regret their drinking.

TroubleAfoot

I hear you and actually have used that as motivation for myself. I may not be the smartest guy in a room, because I drank a lot for a long time, but I finally decided I wasn't going to be so stupid as to literally drink myself to death. My friend, who is 50, had ascites and they drained something like 7 or 8 quarts of fluid out of him while he was in the hospital. I hope your wife's friend gets the donated liver and a second lease on life. It sure would be miserable to be in constant distress while knowing you did it all to yourself. I am also 52 and the health problems were starting to accumulate rapidly to the point where I could see the writing on the wall in big flashing neon letters. I didn't go to the doctor for any of them but most have receded quite a bit since I quit. They were nagging aches and pains, around my body, and some of them were in the area of important organs (liver, kidneys and/or pancreas, etc).

Again, a big reason why I quit. Not to mention I'm getting on, in age, and I wanted to stop pissing my life away. I'm playing catch up now. I'm single living in a mountain town where good women, who aren't taken, are few and far between. It's funny, because I was a party guy for 35 years, but now I just want to settle down and live a simple and quiet life.

Hodd

Thanks TroubleAfoot.

Re my wife’s friend and a liver transplant, that’s a huge operation in itself, but I don’t think I’d cope with having a donated liver which replaced my own one I’d destroyed from drinking. A guy I know on a liver forum had a transplant but he wasn’t a big drinker, just unlucky. He’s 70 now, and all he knows about his donor was he died at 29. This guy grieves daily for the life the donor’s not having now. If I found myself in that situation through drinking, I’d be in mental hell.

Since I turned 50, I retrained as a school teacher and have done triathlons and such things. At 50, you’re still fit enough to do most things whilst being mature enough to enjoy them. Your friend is wasting that opportunity. It sounds like you’re on the up, though. You’ve got decades left now you’ve quit, enjoy.

least

its hard as hell knowing what to do, or not do, in cases like this. you want to help him but you know that it has to be him who makes the decision to better his life. I hope he sees the light and gets treatment for himself before its too late.

TroubleAfoot

It is hard watching a good friend make poor life choices.

Thanks for your comment and I hope you get some relief from that sciatica pain soon.

tornrealization

I feel like I’m watching my brother make heart breaking decisions about his drinking as well. I’ve had the give sobriety a try talk, I’m leading by example and he’s not decided yet to quit. Just agree, admits the issue and carries on. I know when people reached out to me, the message was received even if I continued to drink. That’s all we can do. I have had to shut out the emotional things as I found my concern, worrying and wishing things were different or that my message wasn’t headed has led to some flashbacks to early sobriety struggles and I had to decide to preserve my sobriety and not engage unless it’s in the form of sobriety questions or discussions. So I get it, I do. It’s rough. Protect your sobriety, understand that this ultimately is up to your friend to make their decision. I wish you both the best.

TroubleAfoot

I agree in that, if the liver could have gone to someone more deserving (as in someone who needed one through no obvious fault of their own) I too would feel guilty about getting one because I drank my first one into a toughened pulp. That's too bad the guy you met, in the liver forum, has guilt over the liver he received. Maybe he got some of the emotions of the donor through the liver? There are more than a few freaky stories of organ transplant recipients taking on habits, emotions, and the preferences of the donor.

That's really cool that you have turned your life around the way you have. I did two triathalons once . . . one summer . . . . when I was 16 years old ha ha! Perhaps I should aim for something like that again. If you don't mind me asking how long have you been sober? At five months I don't feel quite as improved as I hoped I might but, at the same time, can't deny that I'm still observing, and feeling, small incremental improvements here and there. I figure it took me a long time to get into this mess so it's gonna take awhile to get completely out of it.

TroubleAfoot

Thanks TR. And I hope your brother figures it out too. I think I posted this mostly to just talk about it with others who understand the perils of alcoholism. I already knew that, for the most part, no one really quits drinking unless they decide for themselves that they need to. And, as you mentioned concerning your own struggles, my sobriety is in sharp contrast to where he is now and who I was when I was right there with him drinking hardcore every day.

He has other people to drink with now, who are mutual acquaintances, and I believe they are enabling him because the main ones, including his wife, all know about his hospitalization and diagnosis of cirrhosis. I feel some animosity towards them because I feel they are willfully accompanying him down a dangerous road. But then again he is the one who, ultimately, bears the responsibility for his own actions.

Hodd

Thanks. My local Tri club had a try a Tri day, and I was surprised how inclusive and friendly it all was. I’d always thought triathlon meant Ironman 140, but as you know there are shorter versions nearly anyone can try. A sprint or Olympic distance Tri is very doable for someone like you, especially if you did it before albeit a long time ago.

My journey started at the end of 2017 when I was obese and had been drinking way too much for 14 years. I had the aches and pain you had. First I cut down on drinking and took up exercise, and that’s where the huge weight gains came. I lost 40lbs in six months. I continued to drink to a lesser extent, but I was still dependent and drinking to an unhealthy level. At the end of 2018, a medical check up which included an ultrasound detected a mild fatty liver - not serious if addressed but definitely the first stage into liver disease. I quit at the end of 2018 (33 months ago). I didn’t lose much more weight as a result, but I had a liver fibroscan out of curiosity in mid 2019 (about eight months after the ultra sound) and the fat had all gone! What an escape that was.

So in your case, you say small improvements, but it can all happen very fast. I’m always wary, though, of how fast things could go the other way if I drank again. I’m definitely convinced that “one drink” is too much.