cusper

I have been almost 6 months sober now and fully committed to my sobriety. My mom has been an alcoholic my entire life and refuses to quit. Thing is, covid is coming to an end and she wants my son to go and stay with her and my father. My dad doesn't drink so much now that he has pretty debilitating diabetes and mobility issues. She had wanted us to go and stay there and when I flat out said no because most of the time I go there I end up feeling bad about myself and watching her get drunk and cry over all of her issues in life. However I said we couldn't go because my husband is working 3 jobs and I don't have a license. So after that she sends me an email saying that it is probably my dad's last father's day. (she has said this same exact thing about family members over the years.... it's a form of manipulation to guilt me into going) So I lost it! I called her up and viciously lost it on her for all of the manipulation she has used on me over the years (I believe she is what people call a narcissist) We haven't spoken for a week now. Thing is, she will never get it. She will never quit drinking and I do NOT want to leave my son in her care. Even though I used to drink I would wait until he went to sleep so he hasn't witnessed the life I grew up in. However if I ever bring up my concerns to her she never takes accountability for her behaviour in a sincere manner. At some point I am going to have to talk to her but I am dreading the conversation because it is nearly impossible. And the thing is, it could very well be the last year of my father's life but over the years she has cried wolf so often I don't believe a word. My brother won't even talk to my parents. So there is just me and right now the pressure is weighing on me. I honestly don't know what to do.

silentrun

You have every right to protect yourself and stay clear of her. My mom was the same way. If she wanted something from you she wouldn't take no for an answer. She ended up shunning me because I wouldn't return to the religion she raised me in. It was so very painful to work through but being removed from her orbit was a huge blessing.

cusper

Thank you Silentrun. I left home at 17 because our house was uninhabitable because of the chaos she created. I would not bother with them for years and it was so freeing. She is not religious per se however she wants me to buy into her fake reality and it is pure nonsense. I am so happy to hear you have come out strong on the other side of that situation and stuck to your truth. I know when it comes to religion it can be all or nothing.

RAL

You can choose to go no contact. As your brother has. You are an adult and can make your own decisions about who you have in your life or not.

Scd619x

Sounds incredibly toxic and not something you want influencing your children i'm sure. The best advise anyone could give you is to take care of you and your little family as when your parents are gone they will be the ones that you turn to and vice versa. I'm still in contact with my mother and my partner says every time i talk to her it takes me a week to recover so i can't show by example but i hope you do what i haven't managed to...yet...well tbh i think it will take my parent dying to finally stop myself contacting them lol

cusper

RAL, I enjoyed the no contact when I was free and single. It was fantastic. Plus my mother was so ashamed of me being not married and a waitress of course. However when I got married and had a child I was much more acceptable to her as a person so I let her in a bit more. But I am thinking no contact might be for my sanity since I still feel like **** after every visit with her.

And Scd- That is so true. My brother and my husband have to hear about my rants after spending any length of time with her. She is incredibly subtle in her maneuvers but that is why she gets away with it. If called out about it, she manages to turn it around on me and never says that she is actually responsible for any of it. Even though my brother is free from their presence he is constantly haunted and spends thousands of dollars on therapy trying untangle his brain. So no contact may have helped but still isn't necessarily the cure. I think that I will have to just not talk to them for a while until I have cooled down. I probably won't cut them off all together but it looks like if they want to spend time with my son it will have to be during the day and at my house. I am not opening that chaotic door for him too. No way in hell.

Steely

Switching the blame is a mean move. My mother was good at it in her own way.

I made no contact for with my (daughter) for about two weeks. Doing my head in. Thought about myself, and the importance of boundaries. I wanted our relationship to succeed, but realised it could never without boundaries.

I don't know if you want the relationship with your mother to succeed. Sounds like you do.

But, if they can't take boundaries they should leave the field. Sounds fair.

Sometimes a boundary means no contact?



.

Anna

Cusper, I grew up with an alcoholic, narcissistic mother. She never got it, ever. She never tried to quit drinking, never saw it as a problem. Like you, I never left my children in her care, no matter what. We didn't live close to each other which was helpful, but nevertheless, when I stopped drinking, I rarely called her or answered her calls for several months. I needed to distance myself and it was the best thing I could have done for myself. You may talk to her again before too long, but you don't need to rush it. Follow your own timeline and what works for you.

stickyone

I also am going through it with a sibling who appears to have plans to change her lifestyle of addiction. She refuses to take responsibilities. I had also completely lost it and had to speak my mind. When it comes down to a decision to see her at this time. It will be all up to you. Your recovery must come first so everything you love won't come last. Hope this helps

cusper

Hi Steely, yes, for now I really think that no contact is the way to go. For now. My son does love them and he is too young for me to have a conversation with regards to addiction. However once they have gone I might tell him. I am not sure. I want him to have a good relationship with them. But I have to be nearby.

Thank you Anna, it tough isn't it? I was sober for almost two years not too long ago and lost my way temporarily. I think I didn't make sobriety priority #1 when I started again. However now it is. It is so important to me to really focus on getting strong and healthy. We don't live very close either but still sometimes not far enough in my opinion. Thank you for your response. I might just take off a few months as well.

And Stickyone, yes! I agree. Sobriety has to come first. There were times when I saw my mother's patterns creeping into my parenting my child. Although he has never seen me drunk he has definitely seen me sick in bed, grumpy and less tolerant for sure. I am committed to being better. It blows my mind when people categorically deny their actions and take zero responsibility for their behaviour. But I guess it's true when people say, "you can't change what you don't acknowledge" and honestly I want my son to grow up feeling like I am his rock and not some helpless, sad, wino. I hope your sister sees the light. Because I think once you cross the line into alcoholism the only way is abstinence. My mom keeps buying these books that tell her she can just have one or two but it's too late for that crap. However she believes that since she is retired there is just no point. And apparently losing both her kids is not enough.

Dee74

My folks are not alcoholics but I went very limited contact with my folks for a number of years and it was great for me.

I grew as a person and when I let them back into my life, even tho they weren't too much different (they did/do try) I'd changed and that made the difference.

I accepted I would never get the love and support I needed from them - I let go the resentment (in time) and I found love and support in other places.

I accepted they would never change, and that was ok....not my circus not my monkeys...I simply have to keep good boundaries.

I accepted the reality that the things they said about me were not true, and the things they did to me were crappy...and I worked towards forgiving them....not for their sake, but mine.

Hugs Cusper

D

cusper

Thank you Dee. It would have to be you that does the changing because they would never see their behaviour as being hurtful or wrong in anyway. I remember what it was like in early sobriety before and here I am again. I will not compromise my progression and it will have to be some time before I reach out. I have to make sure I stay on this path. Thing is, years ago I just left them and didn't actually care about what their fate was. I find now that I am older I have more compassion. But that compassion stops at the welfare of my son. I think once I get some serious sobriety and therapy under my belt I might be better equipped to deal. I really appreciate everyone's support. I had woken up with a lump in my chest because it was Father's Day and it was weighing heavily on my conscience. So happy I wrote this post because it really helped. Once I had read people's comments I felt like I was doing the right thing for me.

Thank you again.xoxo

Mizz

Boundaries are an essential part of our self care. It is acceptable to work towards a solution that works for you. If for now the solution is "no contact" then that is what it is. You are making good decisions to protect your son and to protect yourself. The guilt associated with that protection could be from long engrained behaviors/ dynamics in the family. I see you breaking away from all of that and drawing a line in the sand. You will get better at these boundaries as you move forward and implement them. The next time may have less emotion and you may find yourself calmly asserting yourself and not losing it on your Mother. We learn as we go. The training wheels eventually come off and we find ourselves skilled at the new boundaries. Does that make sense?

I just wanted to say that you are doing fabulous work right now. It is hard but it is necessary. Keep on keeping on!

cusper

Yes Mizz!

Boundaries are very very difficult for me in general. I have my first therapy appointment and this is the first thing I want to work on. I am hoping that maybe after a few months of sessions I will be able to be very clear on how to implement them. You are so right about the guilt. Since my blow up at her I have been bouncing between guilt then anger. There are lots of helpful podcasts on alcoholic parents to adult children and it's crazy how much I can relate. And yes it does make sense. I think it will just take some time and for now I want the space. Thank you for writing in to me. I really appreciate the feedback and support.

Hawkeye13

As COAs, we are pretty much conditioned from birth to attend to the drinking parent, and to keep coming close for the next psychological and / or physical blow.

Over and over they reel us in, and if we dare step back, it triggers that inevitable avalanche of guilt.

After all, as children, we are under their power—they are supposed to know “best”.

Also, society reinforces that to be a good child you honor and respect your parents no matter what—especially when the harm is done, as it usually is, out of public view and only within the family.

I really understand. Boundaries are hard, but it gets easier. The guilt is coming from that old data—it is OK to let it go—

BeABetterMan

My (sober for 15yrs) brother didn’t speak to my mother (raging alcoholic) for 7 years because of her toxicity. I never understood how he could turn his back on her. Then she focused her evil on me. We have not spoken for a year or two. She sends me texts every now and then wishing me death and saying the most evil things a human can say. So we don’t talk. She’s been so mean for so long that I hardly remember any good times so I pretty much have already mourned the loss of her. Ironically, now my brother and her have some sort of relationship. Which is fine by me.

It is in our best interest to have boundaries. And what is in our best interest is what we should do. We drinkers don’t have a choice. If we don’t take care of ourselves the consequences are much more grave than for the average person.

cusper

Hawkeye13 It is so hard to not feel guilty. I am just reading up about ACOAs right now and I spent my entire childhood never feeling safe because I was always worried about their welfare or the next outburst. Especially my mother, just because she was so out of control and incapable of even getting herself to bed. I am now middle aged and my words fall on deaf ears. Thing is I was never the "good child", that actually was my brother. I always called her behaviour out. Anyhow there is no reason for me to feel guilty but yet I do. It will be an interesting road ahead. I just have to stay sober and strong and for now, far away from that woman until I learn what boundaries to set. Thank you so much for responding to my post.

Steely

I think having a good relationship with your brother is much better than having a toxic relationship with your mother BABM. I can't recall one bit of affection coming from my mothers lips. I don't think she knew how to. She had other, good points.

I can remember my father saying to all around that, "steely will look after me." He was alcoholic and have love/hate for him. But even at that age I knew it was a wrong thing to say. How did he ever get it so wrong? Boundaries.

And as I become more skilled at applying them my daughter learns, and is rewarded too. If this doesn't happe, it's not working.

DriGuy

I had that kind of relationship with my father, and eventually we went our separate ways. Although none of this had to do with drinking. He was toxic, and I refused to put up with it anymore. For awhile I found that I could manipulate him into acting like a pathetic and apologetic loser, but he wasn't any more sincere about that than he was as a judgemental jerk, and I didn't find either of his two sides to be something I wanted to be around. My wife disliked him too. I didn't speak to him during the last 10 years of his life, which was fine with his new wife too, because she didn't want me in the picture either. She was about as likeable as my father anyway.

Sometimes, but not often, I think it would have been nice to have a better relationship with him, but I can't say I feel saddened by it, and neither of us had the wherewithal to improve the relationship. You don't get to choose your family like you do your friends. In my case, I could not find a reason to believe there was anything there that I wanted to bother cultivating. I put up with him for enough years of my life, and I felt it was better for my mental health to move on. The regrets were unsolvable and the rewards for severing the relationship outweighed the losses.

Anyway, I had other close relationships with other relatives who actually loved me. My mother was one who I still miss 40 years after her early death. I guess I could wish I had a better relationship with my father, but as in recovery, sometimes you have to accept reality rather than just pursuing wishful fantasies. Society tells us we are supposed to be closer to our family, but then I don't buy everything society tells us either. And having a satisfying life is my first priority over satisfying society's expectations.

I don't expect this to be of any help. It's not something that is supposed to be. It's just what actually is, and I'm OK with that. Perhaps you can do better. All I can say is don't beat yourself up if it can't be. I don't think you are, but getting it off you chest is probably not a bad idea, either.

BeABetterMan

That’s a great post Driguy.