Why do I keep messing up?
I messed up until I was doing more for my recovery than I was doing for my drinking.
If that sounds like a condescending wise guy answer it’s not.
I dunno about you or anyone else reading but I would walk blocks in a severe thunderstorm to get my booze; if I was not putting in the same level of effort and commitment to stay sober I was always gonna revert to my default.
Not sure where you hail from but check out the local AA meetings, there may be some in person happening already.
D
If that sounds like a condescending wise guy answer it’s not.
I dunno about you or anyone else reading but I would walk blocks in a severe thunderstorm to get my booze; if I was not putting in the same level of effort and commitment to stay sober I was always gonna revert to my default.
Not sure where you hail from but check out the local AA meetings, there may be some in person happening already.
D
I just listened to “Alcohol Explained” by William Porter this past week—I thought I had a pretty solid understanding of psychology and physical impact of drinking, but this book really did connect a few dots of why I kept choosing to relapse, despite not wanting to, knowing it would not be rewarding for more than a few minutes, and that I could never stop at one drink. So we drink more—a lot more for most of us, right?
We all know that even though the first drink is deeply craved, it wears off so quickly we keep going, because in fact we feel more anxious and worse after just one because our body, due to our past patterns of over-drinking, releases stimulants to offset the (anticipated) depressive effect of the alcohol. So if we were anxious and stressed, we are even more so after a drink or two, and thus we actually feel worse—more stressed and anxious from the stimulants as well as the original causes craving / drive to take the first drink.
Porter suggests that our subconscious mind gets conditioned over time to the idea that another drink is the only thing that will “fix” things, and then another, and another due to delay time of getting the “hit” from the booze. This is the downward spiral all of us know too well. We end up drinking way more than we planned, and this in a nutshell is why we cannot moderate drinking ever, even if there are decades between the relapses.
The subconscious mind doesn’t forget—and we are right back where we left off or worse. The only drink we really have “control” over is the first one for a true addict. So not taking that one is the key—and the next steps are reprogramming of how we deal with stress in a healthier ways to take us further down the path to healing ourselves.
It isn’t hopeless, it is just making new patterns for our lives—better ones, in fact. . .
We all know that even though the first drink is deeply craved, it wears off so quickly we keep going, because in fact we feel more anxious and worse after just one because our body, due to our past patterns of over-drinking, releases stimulants to offset the (anticipated) depressive effect of the alcohol. So if we were anxious and stressed, we are even more so after a drink or two, and thus we actually feel worse—more stressed and anxious from the stimulants as well as the original causes craving / drive to take the first drink.
Porter suggests that our subconscious mind gets conditioned over time to the idea that another drink is the only thing that will “fix” things, and then another, and another due to delay time of getting the “hit” from the booze. This is the downward spiral all of us know too well. We end up drinking way more than we planned, and this in a nutshell is why we cannot moderate drinking ever, even if there are decades between the relapses.
The subconscious mind doesn’t forget—and we are right back where we left off or worse. The only drink we really have “control” over is the first one for a true addict. So not taking that one is the key—and the next steps are reprogramming of how we deal with stress in a healthier ways to take us further down the path to healing ourselves.
It isn’t hopeless, it is just making new patterns for our lives—better ones, in fact. . .
EXACTLY- I’ve listened William Porter’s podcasts and can’t wait to read the book.
As Hawkeye pointed out, the body releases stimulants to offset the ANTICIPATED depressive effects of the alcohol. As I understand it, our bodies strive to remain in a state of balance. If we customarily have 10 drinks, our brains know to release 10 drinks worth of stimulants to offset the depressants of the 10 drinks. Since our brains and bodies have been accustomed to having those 10 drinks, the brain remembers and will continue to release 10 drinks worth of stimulants even if we only drink 5. (So we try to drink 5+ more to balance). Our brains need to create new pathways for it to stop. It’s crazy. I hope I explained this satisfactorily.
I'mNot - I don't have an answer to why we pour that stuff down our throats, knowing where it will lead. I guess in the back of my mind I was seeking the fun times I once had in the early drinking days. So hard to admit they were gone & never coming back. I played with it until I was completely dependent. One drink always led to 10 - then more the next day to get rid of the hangover - & a horrible binge would follow.
I wish I hadn't ruined my credibility, my finances, my health, before finally getting free for good. I was a slow learner who kept insisting willpower could be used to just have a few sometimes. DUI's - & all sorts of chaos & misery - finally proved to me that I could never be a social drinker. I was so tired of cleaning up my messes & trying to pretend I was living a normal life. It feels wonderful to be free of it. You can do it too.
I wish I hadn't ruined my credibility, my finances, my health, before finally getting free for good. I was a slow learner who kept insisting willpower could be used to just have a few sometimes. DUI's - & all sorts of chaos & misery - finally proved to me that I could never be a social drinker. I was so tired of cleaning up my messes & trying to pretend I was living a normal life. It feels wonderful to be free of it. You can do it too.
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This is my experience. I have anxiety, especially social anxiety. From the age of 17 i used alcohol to get over that. There was only so long i could isolate and feel how i feel 'normally' without taking a drink, could be days, might be a couple of weeks, usually it was when i felt better. I wanted to be a confident life of the party person but i was not built that way, well without alcohol anyway! That's me going out. now let's discuss me not going out and sitting at home drinking, there is only so long that i was willing to sit with a person that i detested, could not stand being around and judged as complete failure so eventually i had to drink to blot that complete idiot out and to feel a bit better. So, for me, and most people it is not just as simple as calling it addiction! Find out why you drink, you will have to be very honest with yourself, write it down, you won't like doing it but it will help you get, and stay, sober
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For me the William Porter book "alcohol explained" was the best breakdown.
I was a binge drinker so I used to reason I wasn't an alcoholic because I went days, weeks and even months between drinks. I also kept a good job, a relationship and all that. Plus I used to reason that I drank in cool bars with my friends, was generous with my booze spending etc so I wasn't an alcoholic
But I developed a serious problem. I'd end up drinking for days and then in my remorseful hangover I'd swear I was going to go sober. Porters book explains this cycle he calls "fading affect bias" in which we bounce back and eventually forget our pain and think this time we will control our drinking. Related to that he explains euphoric recall, urges, anxiety and depression and many other topics.
I thought I was a unique drinker with unique responses to alcohol until I read that book and realized I was in a condition that easily described and how it would progress if I continued. And how things would change if I stopped.
I was a binge drinker so I used to reason I wasn't an alcoholic because I went days, weeks and even months between drinks. I also kept a good job, a relationship and all that. Plus I used to reason that I drank in cool bars with my friends, was generous with my booze spending etc so I wasn't an alcoholic
But I developed a serious problem. I'd end up drinking for days and then in my remorseful hangover I'd swear I was going to go sober. Porters book explains this cycle he calls "fading affect bias" in which we bounce back and eventually forget our pain and think this time we will control our drinking. Related to that he explains euphoric recall, urges, anxiety and depression and many other topics.
I thought I was a unique drinker with unique responses to alcohol until I read that book and realized I was in a condition that easily described and how it would progress if I continued. And how things would change if I stopped.
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Join Date: May 2019
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I just ordered Porter's book and am looking forward to reading it.
Not sure if it's customary or encouraged, but I would like to use this thread as a journal for at least a few days with an eye toward the thread title.
I've been exercising and taking a magnesium tablet before bed, sleeping deeply. No physical withdrawal or anything like that, but when the "witching hour" came yesterday, I did have to beat back the little voice in my head saying, "It's OK to have a drink. What's the big deal? Wouldn't it feel nice?"
That voice is what tosses me off the wagon most of the time. All you have to do is listen to it once to get back on the train to Crazytown, which is kind of unfair because you have to shut it up a thousand times to stay off that train.
Other times it says, "What's the difference? Who cares? Life stinks. Why not enjoy a drink!" or the converse, "Let's celebrate!"
Sometimes it says, "Look at that guy. He is 1000x worse than you ever were. Why not go hang out with your friends at the bar? At least they're not a bunch of sad sacks." (AA is usually the catalyst for that line, unfortunately.)
I think AVRT and therapy are what I need. I need to get to the root of why I keep doing this, or that voice will trick me again sooner or later. One thing I know for sure is that after just a couple of days, I am starting to feel better physically.
Not sure if it's customary or encouraged, but I would like to use this thread as a journal for at least a few days with an eye toward the thread title.
I've been exercising and taking a magnesium tablet before bed, sleeping deeply. No physical withdrawal or anything like that, but when the "witching hour" came yesterday, I did have to beat back the little voice in my head saying, "It's OK to have a drink. What's the big deal? Wouldn't it feel nice?"
That voice is what tosses me off the wagon most of the time. All you have to do is listen to it once to get back on the train to Crazytown, which is kind of unfair because you have to shut it up a thousand times to stay off that train.
Other times it says, "What's the difference? Who cares? Life stinks. Why not enjoy a drink!" or the converse, "Let's celebrate!"
Sometimes it says, "Look at that guy. He is 1000x worse than you ever were. Why not go hang out with your friends at the bar? At least they're not a bunch of sad sacks." (AA is usually the catalyst for that line, unfortunately.)
I think AVRT and therapy are what I need. I need to get to the root of why I keep doing this, or that voice will trick me again sooner or later. One thing I know for sure is that after just a couple of days, I am starting to feel better physically.
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Good luck and stick with it. I am interested to hear your thoughts on the book. I will probably buy it on amazon.
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It is amazing how fast the body rebounds once you cut all that poison out and replace it with food that is halfway healthy and move around some. I am on day 4 and I feel a million times better but I am not sleeping more than 2-3 hours a night but that will go away in the next few days. (unfortunately a voice of experience from detoxing multiple times.)
Good luck and stick with it. I am interested to hear your thoughts on the book. I will probably buy it on amazon.
Good luck and stick with it. I am interested to hear your thoughts on the book. I will probably buy it on amazon.
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Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Charleston, SC
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"The easy way to control alcohol" by Allen Carr is another book I found from reading another forum that had a topic about sobriety. It had good reviews from some and awful from others, like most discussions on any topic. The trend was those that liked the book were in the anti-AA camp. I am awful about not finishing books so I only made it three chapters and haven't revisted it. It was pretty good reading but the guy is very longwinded, so if that bothers you, it may not be a good read.
Yep—moderation is truly impossible for folk like us—as I posted earlier, Porter’s (and others’) theory is that we cannot moderate because at this stage of our drinking “careers” we have conditioned our subconscious (that voice you are hearing) to believe 1) alcohol is the solution to pain / stress and how we have “fun” 2) Once we take that first drink, more will surely follow, so subconscious cues body to release stimulant hormones, which can only be offset by more and more drinks.
It’s a nasty Catch 22–drink is what that voice says will save us, but really it is what destroys us. I can have all the rational willpower in the world in my moderation attempts, but 9/10, they will fail and I will keep justifying to myself why I deserve / want / need / can control those next few drinks. Ha. . .
It’s a nasty Catch 22–drink is what that voice says will save us, but really it is what destroys us. I can have all the rational willpower in the world in my moderation attempts, but 9/10, they will fail and I will keep justifying to myself why I deserve / want / need / can control those next few drinks. Ha. . .
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Made it through the third day. Slept like a rock for a solid eight hours which has not happened for a long time. Woke up with a hangover-like feeling which is weird. Is it normal to get physical withdrawal symptoms on the fourth day after feeling fine for the first three?
Still better than an actual hangover because I didn't do anything stupid last night. A little headache is nothing when it doesn't come with feelings of shame and regret.
Welp, it's a new day! I will not drink today.
Still better than an actual hangover because I didn't do anything stupid last night. A little headache is nothing when it doesn't come with feelings of shame and regret.
Welp, it's a new day! I will not drink today.
Well done INTG - I had awful hangover type feelings from day 3 to about day 9 - they have gone now - I am on week 5.
I found using AVRT very, very helpful, I would even go as far as saying using this technique was like a revelation for me - Initially I had a few days of horrible inner tussle with the AV, it felt like I was going mad - then suddenly it clicked and I knew I would be ok. I got it - !
If you haven't already there are some great threads here on AVRT -
Dee's post made me smile, I remember walking for hours to buy drink at crazy hours, going to very dodgy clubs just to get a drink after hours, (licensing laws in the UK 30 years ago were not great )- getting taxis to strange illegal drinking dens, pleading with pubs to sell me bottles to take away - Wow - it all seems madness now!
I found using AVRT very, very helpful, I would even go as far as saying using this technique was like a revelation for me - Initially I had a few days of horrible inner tussle with the AV, it felt like I was going mad - then suddenly it clicked and I knew I would be ok. I got it - !
If you haven't already there are some great threads here on AVRT -
Dee's post made me smile, I remember walking for hours to buy drink at crazy hours, going to very dodgy clubs just to get a drink after hours, (licensing laws in the UK 30 years ago were not great )- getting taxis to strange illegal drinking dens, pleading with pubs to sell me bottles to take away - Wow - it all seems madness now!
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Day Four came and went more or less uneventfully.
I still have a vague feeling of a hangover, but of course it's nothing like a real hangover. Today is Friday which used to be a big day for me when I was an active drunk so I have to be on guard, especially in the late afternoon. There isn't much more to say about that; writing it down just brings it into focus.
It's odd that the body heals (sleeping deeply, better digestion, more energy) and still gives you a little headache to remind you.
I still have a vague feeling of a hangover, but of course it's nothing like a real hangover. Today is Friday which used to be a big day for me when I was an active drunk so I have to be on guard, especially in the late afternoon. There isn't much more to say about that; writing it down just brings it into focus.
It's odd that the body heals (sleeping deeply, better digestion, more energy) and still gives you a little headache to remind you.
That headache could be blood sugar or dehydration, or even caffeine withdrawals if you've cut back on coffee. Try drinking a big glass of water and eating a little something as soon as you get up - preferably something with carbs like toast or a banana. Doing a low-carb diet will do that too.
Keep it going, onward to day Six!
Keep it going, onward to day Six!
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