Core values/motivations
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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It is hard to know, for me at least, who “I” am under all the stratified layers of “me” solidified over temporal time and often inscrutable interior Self-space. I think you and I have that in common, as well as dealing with the long-term effects of anhedonia and how that impacts our relationships with others, and most especially ourselves.
I also posted while drinking in the past, and while I never claimed to be sober, I lied by omission in that I did not always share when I was drinking or on a binge. That part was easy to do as I pretty much never start threads, and feel most comfortable responding to other people’s posted topics. I post on SR also for the community connection of those who understand what it is to live for decades with the thing that could destroy you.
Having something left to lose, as you do, as I did, did withhold the “gift of desperation” which preserves the lifestyle but erodes the soul. This past six months or so before I retired (June 1) I had effectively carved a relatively safe “niche” for my alcoholism. Fixed amounts, fixed timetable, have cake and plenty to eat / drink as well while keeping work managed and security. It works until it doesn’t—as your recent departure from you “safe pattern” shows.
I am going to go for a more visceral appeal instead of intellectual—that dance is too long for my dance card
You recently gave up the job security you had in academia to pursue you own business. I think that is fantastic, but the academic job did offer you safety and a structure to contain the negative effects of your drinking. Academics have quite a bit of autonomy over their time with relatively little oversight for most. That makes drinking a whole lot easier to implement without repercussions for most of us.
You no longer have that, and that lack of structure could spell serious trouble for your business and your life should the beast finally get free. My feeling is you are approaching an edge that may just crumble under your feet—this seems to be logical for an anhedonic person, as we crave deep sensation and feeling so much we will take risks to get these things other people would never do. The ceaselessly-thinking-Self transmutes for that brief instant into the Thrill / Thrall of what-can-be-dangerous-makes-me-alive in this moment. You become a lively enacting Verb instead of a static-ennuied Noun and that feels like improvement.
What do you think are your chances of staying a high-bottom drinker and also maintaining your positive velocity in growing your business? It sounds like you have had a pretty good lifestyle due to your intellectual and professional achievements—what happens if that gets compromised and your financial resources erode? I ask you that because that was the thing that finally got my anhedonic self to wake up and start working on recovery. I didn’t want to lose all I had worked for—professionally and personally. I’m not there yet, but I would have destroyed myself years ago had I continued drinking on the trajectory I was on.
I also posted while drinking in the past, and while I never claimed to be sober, I lied by omission in that I did not always share when I was drinking or on a binge. That part was easy to do as I pretty much never start threads, and feel most comfortable responding to other people’s posted topics. I post on SR also for the community connection of those who understand what it is to live for decades with the thing that could destroy you.
Having something left to lose, as you do, as I did, did withhold the “gift of desperation” which preserves the lifestyle but erodes the soul. This past six months or so before I retired (June 1) I had effectively carved a relatively safe “niche” for my alcoholism. Fixed amounts, fixed timetable, have cake and plenty to eat / drink as well while keeping work managed and security. It works until it doesn’t—as your recent departure from you “safe pattern” shows.
I am going to go for a more visceral appeal instead of intellectual—that dance is too long for my dance card
You recently gave up the job security you had in academia to pursue you own business. I think that is fantastic, but the academic job did offer you safety and a structure to contain the negative effects of your drinking. Academics have quite a bit of autonomy over their time with relatively little oversight for most. That makes drinking a whole lot easier to implement without repercussions for most of us.
You no longer have that, and that lack of structure could spell serious trouble for your business and your life should the beast finally get free. My feeling is you are approaching an edge that may just crumble under your feet—this seems to be logical for an anhedonic person, as we crave deep sensation and feeling so much we will take risks to get these things other people would never do. The ceaselessly-thinking-Self transmutes for that brief instant into the Thrill / Thrall of what-can-be-dangerous-makes-me-alive in this moment. You become a lively enacting Verb instead of a static-ennuied Noun and that feels like improvement.
What do you think are your chances of staying a high-bottom drinker and also maintaining your positive velocity in growing your business? It sounds like you have had a pretty good lifestyle due to your intellectual and professional achievements—what happens if that gets compromised and your financial resources erode? I ask you that because that was the thing that finally got my anhedonic self to wake up and start working on recovery. I didn’t want to lose all I had worked for—professionally and personally. I’m not there yet, but I would have destroyed myself years ago had I continued drinking on the trajectory I was on.
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Thanks guys, the comments today are very helpful and they do hit home. I definitely will try to avoid overcomplicating - part of the reason I won't respond at great length to the detailed points and suggestions, as I did that before and that's what starts a whole snowball of never-ending, useless mental masturbation 
.
Just want to mention specifically:
(1) Carl's latest argument and example for the "commitment" issue is finally something more relatable. I can definitely think about it that way.
(2) Hawkeye's reasoning about the career and risks of damaging it and my finances is another one of the best and most relatable comments. That's another easy, practical thing I can work with. Of course, I don't think that I would be special and somehow escape serious damage/losses, that's indeed just a stupid idea only drunk-me can come up with. In fact, one of my most effective longer term motivators for seeking a final solution to the drinking is to never experience that sort of loss and regrets, to get out before I get even close to that. So I've decided to get back into working now, not yet full-time, but I really don't need more "vacation" and chances to just lay around lazy and do nothing useful. I still also have a couple writing projects from my last job and lots of new opportunities. My business is very rewarding and interesting for me, definitely a better source of pleasure than a couple hours of booze-high, followed by booze-induced depressive ruminations. I will do the travels planned for the summer, but will work otherwise, also work on the professional skills I want to develop.
(3) Haha GT, that grant writing, game playing comment was awesome. Exactly that, plus a host of other business strategy skills - I don't even notice how I use them everywhere. These have definitely been developed over time and made me successful, but they are also natural abilities and have become even more second nature with practice, I now often forget where professional strategy ends and authentic personal explorations begin, not confused in my mind so much, but when I communicate, definitely. As for AVRT, I agree that it'll likely be easy for me when I reach a state in sobriety where my cravings are not so massive. I think I could have switched from SMART to just AVRT last winter, after two months sober, if I never relapsed. So I'll try something like that now. Will attend SMART meetings a few times a week and use some of the tools again. I never became dependent on those things and doubt that could happen, what happened before was that I stopped using all of it, then I was still okay for ~a month, but then relapsed just when I stopped working. So I won't stop anything now. Went to a SMART meeting today and will do at least 2-3/week, then see how it goes. And I think I get the arbitrary decision idea, that's easier, no need to overthink that whole commitment thing, those discussions got too abstract before.
So after setting this strategy last weekend and just spending two days getting into some work and the SMART tools, I already feel so much better. Better than anytime during the past month. Getting myself busy, having a schedule and daily tasks really help. Completing them also give me a sense of productivity and accomplishment, unlike when I just hang out not doing anything but reading / writing convoluted SR posts (even sober), and wonder where the heck my days go. I think that #2 on my values list in the OP is probably the most effective to capitalize on, that drive in me is very strong. The health should also be, but that's easier to take for granted while I still have it - need to remind myself more often.
.Just want to mention specifically:
(1) Carl's latest argument and example for the "commitment" issue is finally something more relatable. I can definitely think about it that way.
(2) Hawkeye's reasoning about the career and risks of damaging it and my finances is another one of the best and most relatable comments. That's another easy, practical thing I can work with. Of course, I don't think that I would be special and somehow escape serious damage/losses, that's indeed just a stupid idea only drunk-me can come up with. In fact, one of my most effective longer term motivators for seeking a final solution to the drinking is to never experience that sort of loss and regrets, to get out before I get even close to that. So I've decided to get back into working now, not yet full-time, but I really don't need more "vacation" and chances to just lay around lazy and do nothing useful. I still also have a couple writing projects from my last job and lots of new opportunities. My business is very rewarding and interesting for me, definitely a better source of pleasure than a couple hours of booze-high, followed by booze-induced depressive ruminations. I will do the travels planned for the summer, but will work otherwise, also work on the professional skills I want to develop.
(3) Haha GT, that grant writing, game playing comment was awesome. Exactly that, plus a host of other business strategy skills - I don't even notice how I use them everywhere. These have definitely been developed over time and made me successful, but they are also natural abilities and have become even more second nature with practice, I now often forget where professional strategy ends and authentic personal explorations begin, not confused in my mind so much, but when I communicate, definitely. As for AVRT, I agree that it'll likely be easy for me when I reach a state in sobriety where my cravings are not so massive. I think I could have switched from SMART to just AVRT last winter, after two months sober, if I never relapsed. So I'll try something like that now. Will attend SMART meetings a few times a week and use some of the tools again. I never became dependent on those things and doubt that could happen, what happened before was that I stopped using all of it, then I was still okay for ~a month, but then relapsed just when I stopped working. So I won't stop anything now. Went to a SMART meeting today and will do at least 2-3/week, then see how it goes. And I think I get the arbitrary decision idea, that's easier, no need to overthink that whole commitment thing, those discussions got too abstract before.
So after setting this strategy last weekend and just spending two days getting into some work and the SMART tools, I already feel so much better. Better than anytime during the past month. Getting myself busy, having a schedule and daily tasks really help. Completing them also give me a sense of productivity and accomplishment, unlike when I just hang out not doing anything but reading / writing convoluted SR posts (even sober), and wonder where the heck my days go. I think that #2 on my values list in the OP is probably the most effective to capitalize on, that drive in me is very strong. The health should also be, but that's easier to take for granted while I still have it - need to remind myself more often.
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From the perspective of the Honesty thread today. I woke up reasonably okay, sober ~3 days. Went to my designated sober tasks today. A SMART meeting and working with tools was scheduled for today. I (unfortunately, big mistake and allowing me to get into "comfortable" distractions) I started posting on the Honesty thread in Newcomers.
Less than ~two hours later, I decided to go to the liquor store, get a bottle of vodka, and here I am now again drunk as a skunk. Still able to come up with some insights, but drunk, and will continue until this bottle of vodka will run out. Then I will likely, as usual, have a few more "sober" time again. Maybe post on other threads while I'm not drinking.
Is this the kind of "honesty" some want? I hope not!
Confessing to drinking, and even now for me forcing me to say "I will never drink again" is completely useless. GT, that involves your efforts. Unless I come back here (or go anywhere) with a real intention, not words, those are all BS... unless I do that, all efforts, everything, even the best intentions from you guys are sterile. And even after, when I come out of a usual binge... forcing me to "pledge", promise, finally get more and straight... is futile, and I hope all of you obsessing with my "progress", trying to help... realize it.
Less than ~two hours later, I decided to go to the liquor store, get a bottle of vodka, and here I am now again drunk as a skunk. Still able to come up with some insights, but drunk, and will continue until this bottle of vodka will run out. Then I will likely, as usual, have a few more "sober" time again. Maybe post on other threads while I'm not drinking.
Is this the kind of "honesty" some want? I hope not!
Confessing to drinking, and even now for me forcing me to say "I will never drink again" is completely useless. GT, that involves your efforts. Unless I come back here (or go anywhere) with a real intention, not words, those are all BS... unless I do that, all efforts, everything, even the best intentions from you guys are sterile. And even after, when I come out of a usual binge... forcing me to "pledge", promise, finally get more and straight... is futile, and I hope all of you obsessing with my "progress", trying to help... realize it.
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Originally Posted by Aellyce 
Is this the kind of "honesty" some want? I hope not!
It's your choice if you want to drink. Countless do with nary a thought to getting sober. Make the choice and accept the consequences. That's all you can do.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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ha.
Blaming some thread or someone's post on a sobriety forum for your drinking is the pinnacle of codie behavior, Aellyce.
I'm with Carl, it's no skin off my back if you want to keep drinking. Carry on with your bad self.
Just don't expect a sobriety forum to say, "Go, girl."
Originally Posted by Aellyce
From the perspective of the Honesty thread today. I woke up reasonably okay, sober ~3 days. Went to my designated sober tasks today. A SMART meeting and working with tools was scheduled for today. I (unfortunately, big mistake and allowing me to get into "comfortable" distractions) I started posting on the Honesty thread in Newcomers.
Less than ~two hours later, I decided to go to the liquor store, get a bottle of vodka, and here I am now again drunk as a skunk. Still able to come up with some insights, but drunk, and will continue until this bottle of vodka will run out. Then I will likely, as usual, have a few more "sober" time again. Maybe post on other threads while I'm not drinking.
Is this the kind of "honesty" some want? I hope not!
Confessing to drinking, and even now for me forcing me to say "I will never drink again" is completely useless. GT, that involves your efforts. Unless I come back here (or go anywhere) with a real intention, not words, those are all BS... unless I do that, all efforts, everything, even the best intentions from you guys are sterile. And even after, when I come out of a usual binge... forcing me to "pledge", promise, finally get more and straight... is futile, and I hope all of you obsessing with my "progress", trying to help... realize it.
Less than ~two hours later, I decided to go to the liquor store, get a bottle of vodka, and here I am now again drunk as a skunk. Still able to come up with some insights, but drunk, and will continue until this bottle of vodka will run out. Then I will likely, as usual, have a few more "sober" time again. Maybe post on other threads while I'm not drinking.
Is this the kind of "honesty" some want? I hope not!
Confessing to drinking, and even now for me forcing me to say "I will never drink again" is completely useless. GT, that involves your efforts. Unless I come back here (or go anywhere) with a real intention, not words, those are all BS... unless I do that, all efforts, everything, even the best intentions from you guys are sterile. And even after, when I come out of a usual binge... forcing me to "pledge", promise, finally get more and straight... is futile, and I hope all of you obsessing with my "progress", trying to help... realize it.
Blaming some thread or someone's post on a sobriety forum for your drinking is the pinnacle of codie behavior, Aellyce.
I'm with Carl, it's no skin off my back if you want to keep drinking. Carry on with your bad self.
Just don't expect a sobriety forum to say, "Go, girl."
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Originally Posted by doggonecarl
How about, "Do you honestly want to get sober, or do you honestly just want to drink?"
It's your choice if you want to drink. Countless do with nary a thought to getting sober. Make the choice and accept the consequences. That's all you can do.
It's your choice if you want to drink. Countless do with nary a thought to getting sober. Make the choice and accept the consequences. That's all you can do.
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I'm also often questioning what the heck I am still seeking here on SR, after so many years... maybe twisted support for mere survival? Probably part of my problem is that I always want much, much more than survival. I easily focus on those "higher" goals and efforts, but never fix the most basic one that hold everything else back. I don't think it would be fixed by a "pledge" though. Initiated, yes, but not resolved that easily. I can say "I will never drink, and never change my mind" any day here. Keep it for a while, and then break it. It's not a moral issue for me because my morality had been broken long ago... arguments like that won't even faze me. It's a life of death situation, and if I don't take it as such, nothing... no amount of kindness, moralizing, deconstruction... nothing, guys, will break me. The practical suggestions always help some though.
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Originally Posted by Aellyce
Honestly? BOTH! I know I must choose, but I still want both - why I'm here on SR and also still drinking.
What I really wanted was for sobriety to be easy. Glad I quit taking the path of least resistance.
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Originally Posted by biminiblue
ha.
Blaming some thread or someone's post on a sobriety forum for your drinking is the pinnacle of codie behavior, Aellyce.
I'm with Carl, it's no skin off my back if you want to keep drinking. Carry on with your bad self.
Just don't expect a sobriety forum to say, "Go, girl."
Blaming some thread or someone's post on a sobriety forum for your drinking is the pinnacle of codie behavior, Aellyce.
I'm with Carl, it's no skin off my back if you want to keep drinking. Carry on with your bad self.
Just don't expect a sobriety forum to say, "Go, girl."
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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Originally Posted by Aellyce
I won't. I also remember a post when you said, @biminiblue on a broader scale, that I was one of your favorite posters of some sort... Sorry to disappoint, but it was never reciprocal (as far as I can recall in my long history), not sure what was driving it on your end. No surprise it's a disappointment, isn't? I do appreciate many of your posts, as I try to express sometimes, but far from favorites.
You might be imagining things again, Aellyce.
I'll put you back on ignore and will stay out of your way.
Once again, good luck.
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Thanks for all the ignores and people still interested, appreciated. Hope you all can keep it up and won't fall, once again, to the allure of real or imagined similarity. We addicts are not the best to handle those things.
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I realize that I've completely destroyed most faith and trust in me, here on SR. It's been a very good lesson as to what not to do in real life, with it's consequences.
Won't say I am not drinking, or that I won't be drinking in a few days, weeks, months. But I can refrain from posting while still in the same cycle. Any "pledge" I will never drink again, even that I won't drink tomorrow, or am drinking now, would be dishonest, confusing, and probably no perspective.
GT - I know you'll read this. Please accept. There is a reason we feel so drawn to some people, try to help them. And there are states where giving up is the best, at least for a while. Focus on yourself, why trying to "save" alcoholics", especially someone like me, feels so important?
I'll be back, maybe. Maybe not. In any case it's not the result of any of your hard efforts. It's MY efforts, of lack thereof.
I am not sober today. May or may not be tomorrow. You wanted honesty regarding the drinking. No momentary pledge will ever give me away from it.
Won't say I am not drinking, or that I won't be drinking in a few days, weeks, months. But I can refrain from posting while still in the same cycle. Any "pledge" I will never drink again, even that I won't drink tomorrow, or am drinking now, would be dishonest, confusing, and probably no perspective.
GT - I know you'll read this. Please accept. There is a reason we feel so drawn to some people, try to help them. And there are states where giving up is the best, at least for a while. Focus on yourself, why trying to "save" alcoholics", especially someone like me, feels so important?
I'll be back, maybe. Maybe not. In any case it's not the result of any of your hard efforts. It's MY efforts, of lack thereof.
I am not sober today. May or may not be tomorrow. You wanted honesty regarding the drinking. No momentary pledge will ever give me away from it.
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Originally Posted by Aellyce
I realize that I've completely destroyed most faith and trust in me, here on SR. It's been a very good lesson as to what not to do in real life, with it's consequences.
I say that not to shame you or make you feel bad, but many times "goodbye" posts like your last one seem to be motivated in the hope that just walking away will somehow make your problems disappear. As they say, "wherever you go, there you are".
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I have no problem with you posting here Aellyce. I’d rather you posted here, as a sincere sign of you wanting to quit, at least on some level, than not posting here and abandoning yourself fully to active addiction (or active periodic addiction if you prefer)
I’ve said before drinking was a way for me to make the intolerable tolerable. I’m not convinced you.re that different a drinker to me.
I hope you find better ways to deal with your intolerable.
I hope you come to see that drinking need not be essential or defining to your core Aellyce, and I hope you accept that you can be more than you are now...
I know that is both a thrilling and a frightening concept, my wish for you is that the former grows at the latters expense.
D
I’ve said before drinking was a way for me to make the intolerable tolerable. I’m not convinced you.re that different a drinker to me.
I hope you find better ways to deal with your intolerable.
I hope you come to see that drinking need not be essential or defining to your core Aellyce, and I hope you accept that you can be more than you are now...
I know that is both a thrilling and a frightening concept, my wish for you is that the former grows at the latters expense.
D
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Do you have a close community to connect with in the “real word” Aellyce?
There is no lonelier place than inside a rapidly-emptying vodka bottle.
I know because I spent years there and pretty much lost nearly all of my “real world” human connections. They became “superficial” as I became more intellectual, anhedonic, and detached, and the human beings I really cared for and who cared for me mostly fell away or I cut the emotional threads myself.
I am trying to repair some of those severed connections now. Some are gone for good, and I find it hard to make close connections at 56 with so many years of self-imposed distance. Most people who know me would not see that—I have a good sense of humor, many connections with others from my community and workplace, and most did not notice I checked out emotionally years ago, because I kept up the facade of warmth to ease my / our / their daily encounters.
I know what it is to be lonely and I think you do too. That’s part of the reason for drinking, and yet paradoxically it is the biggest culprit as well.
Figuring that out has proven a worthy puzzle to solve—keep working on it, and take care of you—
There is no lonelier place than inside a rapidly-emptying vodka bottle.
I know because I spent years there and pretty much lost nearly all of my “real world” human connections. They became “superficial” as I became more intellectual, anhedonic, and detached, and the human beings I really cared for and who cared for me mostly fell away or I cut the emotional threads myself.
I am trying to repair some of those severed connections now. Some are gone for good, and I find it hard to make close connections at 56 with so many years of self-imposed distance. Most people who know me would not see that—I have a good sense of humor, many connections with others from my community and workplace, and most did not notice I checked out emotionally years ago, because I kept up the facade of warmth to ease my / our / their daily encounters.
I know what it is to be lonely and I think you do too. That’s part of the reason for drinking, and yet paradoxically it is the biggest culprit as well.
Figuring that out has proven a worthy puzzle to solve—keep working on it, and take care of you—
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Did's mean "goodbye" at al Scott. Still hear, listening. Admittedly, like the caraval with a serval, video when I'm drunk:
Sorry I am, again, posting stupid videos. Also realize it's disrespectful to use such a video to highlight my alcoholism and as metaphors. The beautiful wild cats kept as pets aren't even good metaphors, more just more distractions.
In some ways ways, I still do see myself: a beatiful-looking, intelligent creature (on the way of my alcoholism destroying it completely), constantly drawing in other equals... And it's kind of wrong to try to keep us as 'pets'. But that's normal society, and normal expectations.
I admit don't know how to 'out' yet. A pledge, saying "I won't..." wont do me anything. I would break that pledge first thing tomorrow. I need more tangible, practical tasks and solutions that I can practice everyday, regardless or morals. My morals as currently very corrupted, and it will stay the same for a while. But I think I can, maybe, dig myself out of it. Maybe. Again, something practical, visceral, tangible, palpable... not moral and abstract.
Sorry I am, again, posting stupid videos. Also realize it's disrespectful to use such a video to highlight my alcoholism and as metaphors. The beautiful wild cats kept as pets aren't even good metaphors, more just more distractions.
In some ways ways, I still do see myself: a beatiful-looking, intelligent creature (on the way of my alcoholism destroying it completely), constantly drawing in other equals... And it's kind of wrong to try to keep us as 'pets'. But that's normal society, and normal expectations.
I admit don't know how to 'out' yet. A pledge, saying "I won't..." wont do me anything. I would break that pledge first thing tomorrow. I need more tangible, practical tasks and solutions that I can practice everyday, regardless or morals. My morals as currently very corrupted, and it will stay the same for a while. But I think I can, maybe, dig myself out of it. Maybe. Again, something practical, visceral, tangible, palpable... not moral and abstract.
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