nez

I know what I am missing...and I don't miss it.

I have had drinking buddies in my day. I have had friends in my day. The drinking buddies are long gone. We had nothing in common other than drinking. The friends are still around. We have things in common. Some of my friends drink. Some don't. Nobody notices. Nobody cares. We have things in common and that is what the friendship is built on.

Primativo

I know what you are saying Less.

I do think in a way we tend to create this idea that everyone drinks, when really they don't. I'm extremely early in my most recent attempt at Sobriety. But one thing I can admit, is that I was drinking far more than most of my friends. In fact, most of my social circle don't drink at all even though they are normal drinkers.

Two of my group drink about once every couple of months. Or whenever there is an event, but they won't drink at home. One of my best friends is two years sober (although he is a fellow problem drinker, he's done fantastically well, better than I have). He just quit one day and has never relapsed.

I'm in my late thirties, surely once you are at this age or in your forties, many people don't drink. Some for health reasons, some just don't like the hangovers. I really don't see it being an issue socializing sober in your 40s. In your 20s? that would be a different story.

Dee74

Thinking about this more, and driving past the liquor store looking at the guys lining up for the 10 am opening, there is a male insecurity thing about how other 'blokes' see us.

I guess I'm at an age and a place in life where I'm in my 50s, and not working, so I have greater control over the situations and events I find myself in and the people I socialise with.

but...I also have never cared less about what other people think of me - not in an arrogant way (I hope) but yeah, I'm comfortable with who I am these days...and a major part of that 'me' (and of that not caring) is me being a non drinker.

I've built a sober life I love.
Its not a bad thing to aim for.

D

MesaMan

.
Geezer Mon, here, has an 'advanced' Birthday this Thursday. I have mused many times internally while on SR if I could have sobered up earlier in Life. I doubt it. Int'l Business Dinners. All kinda socializing with Drinker Pals over Decades. THEN, get up to start drinking 'just because'. 'Hey, the Sun came up. Celebration time'! Slug down some Vodka from one of three 1.75 L 'Handles' hidden around. Including one in my SUV.

I've lost a good Pal originally here from SR recently when they fell off the proverbial Wagon. Early 50s. The Wife of another Pal of almost 40 years just drank herself to a Slo-Mo Death 2 Weeks ago this Wednesday. Tough to watch, and have no power to change that ghastly outcome. After several Hospital stints over the past few Months, she ripped out all the Drip Tubes, and Sensors. Said she wanted to be left alone to die. Within 24 Hours, she did. Other Friends-of-Friends over the past few Years. All dead. It blows. Mightily.

Perhaps I'm spared much of any possible conflict over future Alcohol use by voluntarily limiting my Social Group. Made possible by our Rural Lifestyle. I'd be screwed, blue'd and tattoo'ed if I lost my Driving License out here. Plus, I'm an Introvert, so this is all working out pretty OK, actually.

I've wondered sometimes if one 'advantage' to such insane, daily, over-consumption was to hit even MY limit? Thus, there's no yearning to drink, or to even fantasize over what I could be 'missing'. The answer? Nada. Zip. Zero_mundo...

BackandScared

Lessgravity, I am sorry you feel this way. Feeling disconnected was for sure a big cause/excuse? for me to drink. You are in a dangerous zone, even more so, because you seem to believe you are not. Alcohol has very little power in 'connecting' people. Many times alcohol hides the absolute lack of imagination and creativity to have fun. . We are meant to 'connect' with others over a table of food and drink, sitting around with nothing else to focus but getting drunk. We stop playing and doing many other things children and teenagers do.

Of course, getting a bit high (with alcohol or anything else) can be great if it works. I would totally love to drink a few times a year. My idea of moderation has always been to get drunk 5 times a year. But it is gone for me now. There are quite a few things I will never be able to do anymore, including holding my kids in my arms. They are far too big for it now. I feel nostalgic about it too.

The danger is you can always go back to the drink. Just for one time. I hope you feel better today and you can find your own way of settle this internal battle with yourself.

fishkiller

Hey Less Thanks for posting this. It really helps me prepare for the future seeing long timers posting their struggles.

I come from a Big drinking background. Everyone I hung out with and most of my relatives are drinkers. Many heavy drinkers like I was.
I understand what you are saying. Alcohol is a part of Many lives. Some just want a little and some, us, need it all.
Being from the construction and maintenance industry I thought all men were like that also. You gotta be tough to do that work and tough guys drink right??
Not all of them. The toughest ones had a problem and sorted through it and now do not drink.

I will add the disclaimer that I was unable to get sober until I left that world so FOMO kept me in purgatory for far too long.

I only had 1 good friend that did not drink until recently. Now I have a few more added to the list that I can pin directly to my sobriety.

You ain't missing nothing Brother!

novips

FWIW, two Big Book quotes came to my mind after reading your post.

• We have shown how we got out from under. You say, “Yes, I’m willing. But am I to be consigned to a life where I shall be stupid, boring and glum, like some righteous people I see? I know I must get along without liquor, but how can I? Have you a sufficient substitute?” Yes, there is a substitute and it is vastly more than that. It is a fellowship in Alcoholics Anonymous. There you will find release from care, boredom and worry. Your imagination will be fired. Life will mean something at last. The most satisfactory years of your existence lie ahead. Thus we find the fellowship, and so will you.

• My friend promised when these things [Steps 1-9] were done I would enter upon a new relationship with my Creator; that I would have the elements of a way of living which answered all my problems. Belief in the power of God, plus enough willingness, honesty and humility to establish and maintain the new order of things, were the essential requirements.

Surrendered19

This is a very interesting thread LG and one that has me thinking. I completely understand the dynamic you describe and your expressing the sense of loss over participation in it. My humble opinion though is that ANY relationship that demands alcohol be part of its foundation is flawed from the get go.

I do acknowledge your feelings and it is good for all of us to post when we're feeling low about something. I've talked on SR before about celebrations being really the only trigger of concern for me and I really plan ahead for those times. (I have now taken part in many holidays and celebrations completely sober and had a grand time at all of them).

The health community is starting to see that even small amounts of alcohol are poisonous to the mind and body. If alcohol meant for human consumption was invented today, it would NEVER be approved by any scientist or health authority. It would be banned by everyone and you would be viewed as having lost your mind if you drank any of it. It is a liver toxin from the first sip and would, if introduced to us today, be viewed along the lines of huffing model glue to get high. Every single doctor would tell us to refrain from even one drink.

Sort of makes any relationship or social group that has it as a necessary ingredient somewhat compromised. I submit to you that the fake euphoria of "normal" drinkers and the false comradery alcohol generates has led to the ruin of countless people who would have nevertheless been comrades and friends without it. There just isn't anything real about it for anyone.

lessgravity

Thank you to everyone who posted. Really appreciate the ability to express these thoughts, hear from others, and process them - the power of SR. I don't do AA and so this is the only place I can truly share among people who have the experience and knowledge that we all have.

But I have to address a couple things. I am not at all at risk of picking up a drink merely because I have these thoughts/feelings and have given them space here on SR. Perhaps for some people this way of thinking is beneficial but I find it akin to superstition or religious thought - don't let the sinful thoughts in, they might take over. I reject "you are in a dangerous zone, because you don't think you are" in relation to this topic. Actually I know, to my core, that I am not in a dangerous zone. I don't drink, never will drink and, truthfully, do not want to drink. Merely acknowledging that not everything is roses does not mean that somehow I might pick up again. Not going to happen.

In fact I think the opposite - I think acknowledging this frustration and actual experience in my life fortifies my sobriety. Pretending it's not an aspect of my life undermines my sobriety - it is a form of ignorance or untruth that I do not participate in. The simple fact is that I have met a few guys this year that, if I was still drinking, I believe I would have developed better friendships with. Does me acknowledging this mean that I think I should drink? Course not. Does it mean that I think it might be worth it to drink here and there to make some friends? No ****** way. It's just a reality and I can deal with it. It's the cost of doing business - it simply is what it is for me. And, along with tragedy, loss, success and anything else in life, it will never and can never make me drink again.

I have great friends, wonderful family, a dynamic and high stakes job. I take my fitness and health very seriously. I enjoy my life to an extent I never was able to when I was drinking. But that does not mean that there aren't things in my life that are kinda tough now and then that have to do with not drinking. That's it!

Love the posts - thank you SR, what a wonderful place.

Mizz

I like the way you process.
I do the same. Process. Acknowledge. Move through and over.
You are very strong on your road. Winning every day.

DriGuy

To an extent, I can be around people who are drinking, and if it's social enough I can even enjoy it without having a drink. If they are really drunk, I'll just leave, because I'd just end up being bored out of my skull. Pleasant social gatherings with alcohol are OK, but I see no reason why I would have to be drinking in that situation.

tufty13

Lessgravity, that’s a great post.

Thank you for sharing that. 👍

Aellyce

In this case, it seems like the mild sense of missing out is just a necessary compromise to be able to have all these things, much like in any other area of life where nothing is perfect and we need good, functional compromises. Just need to let some things go in order to have the bigger good, and tolerate the associated feelings.

FiveTries

I can relate.

I think it's a very valid vent. I am still out here drinking, partially due to what you describe. When sober I feel physically amazing, but emotionally disconnected from my own life. It makes sense, since drinking has been a central component of my life for 25 years. I built a life I love, but it looks totally different with alcohol out of it. I am an early 40's male myself. Pretty much all of my friends and family are drinkers, most 'normal', some not. My wife drinks, and we have a great connection. When I am sober things are a lot different and not necessarily better. I have those recent friendships that would not have come to fruition had I been sober. This all makes it difficult for me to quit.

I think it's amazing that you are 3 years sober. That definitely makes me jealous. I appreciate your honesty with this post. Sometimes it seems like I only hear people saying how wonderful sobriety is and they don't acknowledge that 10% or less.

biminiblue

This is why you don't read it on here from the sober people, because it's pretty much the definition of addiction and giving voice to that ambivalence is dangerous. Ambivalence, doing the thing we don't want to do and being in two minds. It's every bit the cliche of playing with fire.

It is the Voice of the Addiction (literally the AV.)

FiveX, we've all had that feeling. It's not unique to feel dissonance, it's just a lot better to feel dissonance from the sober side than the drinking side.

I hope that you don't ever experience the Hell of drinking way past the ambivalence and right into the misery.

I hope you'll pick a side while you still can.

ScottFromWI

While I do understand where you are coming from and did feel the same way to some extent early on LG, I would respectfully disagree with the statement above. I was a "Man in my 40's" for 10 years - 3 of them actively drinking and 7 of them sober. Over those 10 years I can honestly say that I built much better and long-lasting relationships with other men ( and women ) in the sober years. I think the main reason is because now I'm actually engaging in activities that stimulate my mind to learn more about myself and those around me, vs using alcohol as an "ice breaker" or as the main reason for being someplace. Yes, the mystique and fun of hanging out with all my buddies at the microbrew pub do still pop up from time to time, and certainly I can still go there and hang out if I wanted to, but if I am being totally honest with myself the reason I was there was the alcohol - not the people.

I would say that it is indeed HARDER to build relationships sober though - mostly because you have to face everything head on and accept all of your own insecurities and those of other people. Take a work relationship for example - it's certainly sometimes effective to go take a customer out golfing, get them drunk and buy them a great meal and then close the deal, but how does that frame the client relationship moving forward?

In any case, I do understand that this started off as basically a rant, and we all need to do that from time to time. But I would also look back at your statement above and think about how you are framing things. And remember that the majority of people do indeed to about their daily lives happily and successfully without drinking to excess, sometimes not at all.

Aellyce

I am still pretty newly sober but personally don't feel such disconnection at all, can't even say I had moments like that, even when I was only a few days sober here and there... much more the opposite. Being out of touch with reality while drinking and not being able to live the life I would want due to the drinking problem created the most intense disconnection for me personally. For me, it was just part of the high from alcohol where I occasionally felt a sense of "connection" stronger than anything else, but to my sober mind, those feelings were almost psychotic-like. I literally had feelings like that sometimes when intoxicated, as though I had some psychic abilities and connection with some other people... which sober me does not believe in at all, so very disturbing. I don't think there is a single thing not drinking makes impossible, other than experiencing the altered state and very specific effects of alcohol, plus the misery it brings as a consequence.

But if one feels disconnected sober, perhaps then it's one of the challenges of recovery for that person to find out why that disconnection exists and how to "connect the dots" in a different way? I always think this is similar to larger existential questions like "what's the purpose of life" and how to find it. I think it's not finding it but creating it on an individual basis, for ourselves and whatever matters to us. If something does not work and does not provide a decent sense of connection and satisfaction, then change what we do and how we do it. This can also be done in social life and interpersonal relationships, I think it just takes wanting to change it and then making the effort. Why continue socializing in a certain way if the discomfort outweighs the benefits (does not sound like that's the case for OP, more responding on a theoretical basis)? And if the negative feelings don't outweigh the benefits, then as said above, we can try to accept the situation as is, with some imperfect elements, and just tweak some details here and there, maybe.

DriGuy

In my case, my AV has never shut down completely, after all these years it occasionally pops up. That's OK, it doesn't have to be a perfect. Nothing is. I'll settle for manageable. At three years, my AV was still talking a lot of trash, although wanting to join in was not one it's better arguments. But with three years under your belt, I'm not going to say you are doing it wrong. As long as you remain committed, you are making progress, maybe not as much as you want, but keep it up. At three years, I would still say the same thing to you as I would a newcomer; "It gets better."

ciowa

Im about 2 years in on recovery and I've been fortunate enough not to get many longings for my days of drinking because it all ended so bad and the crash and burn pattern was happening over and over. But when it comes to nostalgia, I tend to be philosophical about it. I'd love to be able to play tackle football, basketball and even intense mma training but those are things I dont attempt anymore due to concern about serious injuries as I'm in my 40s now. At times I miss the routine, camaraderie and banter that came with those and other activities. Hell, I even miss being single every now and then (romanticizing the unaccountability and forgetting the loneliness) but what I have now is more rewarding. I can still work out, I have companionship, a clear mind and so much more.

Truth is, when I was drinking, I didnt like being around or talking to drunk people. I had to get drunk to be in those circles and conversations or else I would get very irritated and even hostile towards them.

I made some friends while drinking and also lost friends when drinking. I lost relationships and burned bridges while drinking. When my drinking began to get even worse, many of my friends I drank with supported me in getting sober because we had also experienced good times when sober. They generally thought of me as being a good friend when sober, often fun to drink with and just as often out of control and unpredictably hostile when drinking. They would say stuff like "hey, lets make sure we pass out after the bar closes" or "Bro, dont keep drinking tomorrow ok?" but of course I kept going.

New friends aren't a priority for me but I will say that I have made plenty of friends in my 40s when sober. Heres a few ways I've done that without intending to- Teaching acquaintances how to fish, community volunteering to build a green house/garden, attending a few workshops, attending event/camping trips in a group and a few other things. I've also done a couple of small conference speaking gigs on a topic I study and was invited to a couple of dinners from attendees. And heres the funny thing about that. I never went out to drink with any of these friends I made while sober because I knew they might end up seeing a side of me that made them rethink our friendship.

Scd619x

There is quite a famous guy here in the UK called Frank Skinner, he's well known for quitting drinking decades ago. I saw a documentary a couple of months ago, which i wish i had seen years ago where Frank said that after stopping drinking his social life has never recovered. If someone had just put it that simply i might have stopped banging that drum in sobriety and got a hobby or two earlier!