Breaking the associations
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Georgia
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Breaking the associations
What had helped you to break the associations with alcohol?
A tough one for me is going out on the boat. We went yesterday and I failed. I do realize however, that my husband and I are the only ones that drink to excess. My SIL usually comes with us and drinks but looking back now, she only had 1-2.
Last Sunday when we went, I did not drink. I observed and my niece opened one drink and held it the whole time not even finishing it.
So, associating alcohol/beer with the boat is obviously bull! We had 4 other people with us yesterday that didn’t drink at all!
A tough one for me is going out on the boat. We went yesterday and I failed. I do realize however, that my husband and I are the only ones that drink to excess. My SIL usually comes with us and drinks but looking back now, she only had 1-2.
Last Sunday when we went, I did not drink. I observed and my niece opened one drink and held it the whole time not even finishing it.
So, associating alcohol/beer with the boat is obviously bull! We had 4 other people with us yesterday that didn’t drink at all!
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Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: NC
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Time away from alcohol.
Doing those things alcohol free.
Working in my shop was a Huge trigger for me. I would go out and stay there getting wasted almost every night.
I am standing in here right now without the slightest urge.
Matter of fact I am out here everyday and I dont even remember the last time I had an urge to drink out here. I now associate the shop with progress as I can now actually get stuff done.
Side note, as a boater myself I hope yall are not operating under the influence buy it sounds like you are.
Stay safe and make sure the captain saves the drinks for the dock.
Doing those things alcohol free.
Working in my shop was a Huge trigger for me. I would go out and stay there getting wasted almost every night.
I am standing in here right now without the slightest urge.
Matter of fact I am out here everyday and I dont even remember the last time I had an urge to drink out here. I now associate the shop with progress as I can now actually get stuff done.
Side note, as a boater myself I hope yall are not operating under the influence buy it sounds like you are.
Stay safe and make sure the captain saves the drinks for the dock.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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I don't know if you do actually break the associations with alcohol, those associations are AV ( any positive thought or image of future alcohol use) you just acknowledge them , identify them as coming from the AV and then purposefully don't act on them.
You can assume a mindset that recognizes associations with alcohol as neutral or even benign and then dismiss the urge to satisfy the desire for more booze. "Hearing" or "having" AV isn't a problem perse , consuming alcohol is the malignancy. The idea that you will not stop consuming alcohol unless you no longer have a desire for it is a self perpetuating myth, it is the function and sole purpose of the AV. Take the illusion of power away from IT by YOU deciding that whether or not an association is made more booze is no longer an option.
You can assume a mindset that recognizes associations with alcohol as neutral or even benign and then dismiss the urge to satisfy the desire for more booze. "Hearing" or "having" AV isn't a problem perse , consuming alcohol is the malignancy. The idea that you will not stop consuming alcohol unless you no longer have a desire for it is a self perpetuating myth, it is the function and sole purpose of the AV. Take the illusion of power away from IT by YOU deciding that whether or not an association is made more booze is no longer an option.
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Join Date: Nov 2018
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I always associated alcohol with the boating scene, something about sitting around in a graciously appointed boat enjoying the good life, while at quiet anchor. Of course, all the rules tell us not to do it, but my drinking crowd became part of my boating crowd, at least most of the time. What I started to notice, as people in uncrowded anchorages would invite each other over for an evening visit as the sun went down, not all boaters were drinkers, and certainly, few that drank like I did. I have gotten more looks of disapproval from boaters, usually when getting together for the first time, that I ever did on streets, in bars, or homes. You know that look. No one actually comments, but you are being closely observed, and you know you're not going to see those folks again, or even want to.
People may say, "Boating is a trigger," but I'm not completely sure. Alcoholics just drink too much, and if I weren't on the boat that night, I'd be drinking anyway. But there may be an association beyond what I see. Boating = relaxing = drinking?? For what it's worth, none of those equivalences are precise. Boating is not always relaxing, and relaxing does not require drinking. They are very loose connections, but that's all an alcoholic needs and it's off to the races.
I've been sailing since my 20s and alcohol was involved for most of my years, not in the middle of an intense blow, but sometime during the day. After I got sober, I got back into the scene with both feet, and sailed more in 3 years than I did in 40 years, all of it without any alcohol at all, and it was wonderful. I was focused, single minded, and dedicated to the thing I loved, but without alcohol. It was really nice too.
Alcoholics don't drink because they boat. We drank because we were alcoholics, and the boat just happens to be there.
People may say, "Boating is a trigger," but I'm not completely sure. Alcoholics just drink too much, and if I weren't on the boat that night, I'd be drinking anyway. But there may be an association beyond what I see. Boating = relaxing = drinking?? For what it's worth, none of those equivalences are precise. Boating is not always relaxing, and relaxing does not require drinking. They are very loose connections, but that's all an alcoholic needs and it's off to the races.
I've been sailing since my 20s and alcohol was involved for most of my years, not in the middle of an intense blow, but sometime during the day. After I got sober, I got back into the scene with both feet, and sailed more in 3 years than I did in 40 years, all of it without any alcohol at all, and it was wonderful. I was focused, single minded, and dedicated to the thing I loved, but without alcohol. It was really nice too.
Alcoholics don't drink because they boat. We drank because we were alcoholics, and the boat just happens to be there.
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Originally Posted by dwtbd 
The idea that you will not stop consuming alcohol unless you no longer have a desire for it is a self perpetuating myth, it is the function and sole purpose of the AV.
At the current moment, I’m having to “white knuckle” it on occasions when the AV is strong. I’d rather prefer to not have the desire at all!
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Originally Posted by DriGuy
People may say, "Boating is a trigger," but I'm not completely sure. Alcoholics just drink too much, and if I weren't on the boat that night, I'd be drinking anyway. But there may be an association beyond what I see. Boating = relaxing = drinking?? For what it's worth, none of those equivalences are precise. Boating is not always relaxing, and relaxing does not require drinking. They are very loose connections, but that's all an alcoholic needs and it's off to the races.
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Originally Posted by Jillian2563
At the current moment, I’m having to “white knuckle” it on occasions when the AV is strong. I’d rather prefer to not have the desire at all!
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I believe this goes back to having a plan and committing to it Jillian. You use the term associations, but others use triggers, and I've heard others. And unfortunately, life provides us with an unlimited supply of things to associate alcohol with - celebrations, sadness, pain, fear, worry - they are around every corner. So you are right - the association of boating with alcohol is not specific to the instance - it's a generic function of your addiction using anything as an excuse to keep drinking.
For me it really boiled down to me deciding that being sober was my number one priority. And then making a plan on how to get there. There are plethora of plans out there, and i'm sure you've read about many of them here and possibly tried some out. I think what really matters most is for you to decide if being sober is really what you want - and then focusing on it as if it's the most important thing in your life.
For me it really boiled down to me deciding that being sober was my number one priority. And then making a plan on how to get there. There are plethora of plans out there, and i'm sure you've read about many of them here and possibly tried some out. I think what really matters most is for you to decide if being sober is really what you want - and then focusing on it as if it's the most important thing in your life.
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What Fishkiller said. Time away changes your brain and your spirit and your habits. In my early days I would watch like a hawk at a party or dinner to see how much each person drank or didn't drink. I would have FOMO and cravings and feelings of self-pity. Recently I was with friends and realized after a night that I didn't even think about who was drinking how much at all.
Alcohol has no feelings - at the end of the day it wants these "associations" to color each and every aspect of your life - drink when you are celebrating, drink when you are sad, drink to relax, drink to escape, drink to engage - it doesn't matter, the booze will find its way in and take over everything, over time, if you let it.
Time and work allow for the change in associations. Great topic, thanks for the post.
Alcohol has no feelings - at the end of the day it wants these "associations" to color each and every aspect of your life - drink when you are celebrating, drink when you are sad, drink to relax, drink to escape, drink to engage - it doesn't matter, the booze will find its way in and take over everything, over time, if you let it.
Time and work allow for the change in associations. Great topic, thanks for the post.
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I have been a home drinker and I really do not socialize all that much.
The front porch is where I consumed alcohol. "After work" was the drinking time. It took me awhile to get adjusted to the new normal. Breaking the "after work" drink with a hot cup of tea helped me to retrain my brain and stop the cravings in the beginning.
I notice that I am not drinking the hot tea so much anymore. Its there if I want it!
When we remove alcohol from our lives there is a void that needs to be filled. So, I fill it with everything but alcohol.....
The front porch is where I consumed alcohol. "After work" was the drinking time. It took me awhile to get adjusted to the new normal. Breaking the "after work" drink with a hot cup of tea helped me to retrain my brain and stop the cravings in the beginning.
I notice that I am not drinking the hot tea so much anymore. Its there if I want it!
When we remove alcohol from our lives there is a void that needs to be filled. So, I fill it with everything but alcohol..... Member
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Join Date: Jan 2014
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Originally Posted by ScottFromWI
I believe this goes back to having a plan and committing to it Jillian. You use the term associations, but others use triggers, and I've heard others. And unfortunately, life provides us with an unlimited supply of things to associate alcohol with - celebrations, sadness, pain, fear, worry - they are around every corner. So you are right - the association of boating with alcohol is not specific to the instance - it's a generic function of your addiction using anything as an excuse to keep drinking.
For me it really boiled down to me deciding that being sober was my number one priority. And then making a plan on how to get there. There are plethora of plans out there, and i'm sure you've read about many of them here and possibly tried some out. I think what really matters most is for you to decide if being sober is really what you want - and then focusing on it as if it's the most important thing in your life.
For me it really boiled down to me deciding that being sober was my number one priority. And then making a plan on how to get there. There are plethora of plans out there, and i'm sure you've read about many of them here and possibly tried some out. I think what really matters most is for you to decide if being sober is really what you want - and then focusing on it as if it's the most important thing in your life.
I do really want it. But unfortunately I’m addicted and just having a hard time sticking to a plan. If I could go to rehab I would. I know that no one but myself can help me however.
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Originally Posted by Jillian2563
I do really want it. But unfortunately I’m addicted and just having a hard time sticking to a plan.
Perhaps you could start looking at the reasons why you are having a hard time sticking to a plan? Make a list - is it due to lack of time? motivation? resources ( people, support, etc )? Even inpatient rehab is only a start - it's not going to really "change" you - you need to do the work there just as you would on your own.
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In the Big Book, it says: If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it—then you are ready to take certain steps.
This statement precedes the recitation of the 12 Steps, so one can read it as having no application beyond that. However, in my experience, this willingness to go to any length includes the willingness to take whatever steps are necessary to stay sober. So, that might mean avoiding boat trips till you have some sober time under your belt. Or, it might mean checking yourself into rehab to physically remove yourself from these sorts of temptations.
We tend to vary quite a bit in terms of what works for us when it comes to these sorts of issues. I've been sober over 18 years, and I still won't keep alcohol in the house. If someone wants to argue that this means I'm somehow not spiritually fit -- I'm happy to let them keep arguing that while I stay sober
This statement precedes the recitation of the 12 Steps, so one can read it as having no application beyond that. However, in my experience, this willingness to go to any length includes the willingness to take whatever steps are necessary to stay sober. So, that might mean avoiding boat trips till you have some sober time under your belt. Or, it might mean checking yourself into rehab to physically remove yourself from these sorts of temptations.
We tend to vary quite a bit in terms of what works for us when it comes to these sorts of issues. I've been sober over 18 years, and I still won't keep alcohol in the house. If someone wants to argue that this means I'm somehow not spiritually fit -- I'm happy to let them keep arguing that while I stay sober
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Yeah, the change needs to occur within you. I think it's good to remember that, while rehab can be very beneficial, the recovery is still up to you. Rehab is a tool, but there are a lot of tools you can use. Staying sober needs to be the priority in your life, at least for some time. Would you consider skipping the boating until you feel more established with your recovery? If not, make a strong plan and determine to stick with it. You can do this.
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Join Date: Jun 2013
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I had an old friend visit over the weekend. Childhood friend, camping and boating buddy, motorcycle buddy. We used to drink together when we were younger and he saw me plenty buzzed on many occasions. He knows I no longer drink, but he continues to drink in moderation and I don't even notice it anymore. I bought him a pint of nice craft beer for his arrival, so he could relax from the drive, and there was even a huge bottle of Jack Daniels on my counter the entire weekend, because he likes a little in his coke. He would have a drink or a beer at dinner. That's it. Complete moderation. All that was important to me however, was the great conversation and all the laughs. It was a good weekend.
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Hi Jillian, many of my strongest triggers are also positive experiences that I would not want to give up, I struggle a lot with cravings/AV as well and really wish it would just end already. In reality though, I think this challenge is there for many of us to deal with for longer than we would want it. I actually had a thread about this a few days ago - it had a different focus and I think we overanalyzed it a bit, but perhaps you can find some useful points in it for yourself:
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-activity.html (Cravings / AV activity)
Don't know if you find science helpful but if yes, you could look up the phenomena called "cue reactivity" and "extinction", two terms from behavioral science that deal with how the associations work, how they reinforce the addiction and make it hard to break the cycle, and how it is possible to break the strong links by experiencing the same triggering situations repeatedly, but without the drug (alcohol). This is basically what you are going through right now. There are ways to potentially make it easier by playing around with how you experience these situations sober, in what environment and social context.
One question though. If the boating is very uncomfortable for you right now and you don't fully trust yourself, is it possible not to do it for a while? We talk about lifestyle changes a lot in recovery, so maybe something to consider? Or do it much less frequently, with different people etc - change the context somewhat. I guess the boat could wait, but your recovery is very important, right? I don't avoid my triggers but am pretty serious about where I draw the line in the sand about how I am willing to experience challenging situations.
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-activity.html (Cravings / AV activity)
Don't know if you find science helpful but if yes, you could look up the phenomena called "cue reactivity" and "extinction", two terms from behavioral science that deal with how the associations work, how they reinforce the addiction and make it hard to break the cycle, and how it is possible to break the strong links by experiencing the same triggering situations repeatedly, but without the drug (alcohol). This is basically what you are going through right now. There are ways to potentially make it easier by playing around with how you experience these situations sober, in what environment and social context.
One question though. If the boating is very uncomfortable for you right now and you don't fully trust yourself, is it possible not to do it for a while? We talk about lifestyle changes a lot in recovery, so maybe something to consider? Or do it much less frequently, with different people etc - change the context somewhat. I guess the boat could wait, but your recovery is very important, right? I don't avoid my triggers but am pretty serious about where I draw the line in the sand about how I am willing to experience challenging situations.
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Join Date: Jun 2017
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I remember the first time I went out for pizza in sobriety. I was doing fine with no thoughts of alcohol whatsoever anywhere on the horizon ...and then the pizza hit the table...damn where is the beer...how the hell do you have pizza without beer. I actually had to get up from the table and go out into the parking lot and walk around for a bit while I reinforced why I don't have beer with pizza...or with anything for that matter!
I admit that is hard to do on a boat, but the process is the same for me no matter what, because life happens and life for the world as a whole doesn't change because of my decision to live sober, only my life changes...and it changes for the better!
As long as I can remember that, things go well and I can handle life...occasionally, I just need to excuse myself for a bit and go for a mental walk.
I admit that is hard to do on a boat, but the process is the same for me no matter what, because life happens and life for the world as a whole doesn't change because of my decision to live sober, only my life changes...and it changes for the better!
As long as I can remember that, things go well and I can handle life...occasionally, I just need to excuse myself for a bit and go for a mental walk.
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Originally Posted by nez
I remember the first time I went out for pizza in sobriety. I was doing fine with no thoughts of alcohol whatsoever anywhere on the horizon ...and then the pizza hit the table...damn where is the beer...how the hell do you have pizza without beer. I actually had to get up from the table and go out into the parking lot and walk around for a bit while I reinforced why I don't have beer with pizza...or with anything for that matter!
I admit that is hard to do on a boat, but the process is the same for me no matter what, because life happens and life for the world as a whole doesn't change because of my decision to live sober, only my life changes...and it changes for the better!
As long as I can remember that, things go well and I can handle life...occasionally, I just need to excuse myself for a bit and go for a mental walk.
I admit that is hard to do on a boat, but the process is the same for me no matter what, because life happens and life for the world as a whole doesn't change because of my decision to live sober, only my life changes...and it changes for the better!
As long as I can remember that, things go well and I can handle life...occasionally, I just need to excuse myself for a bit and go for a mental walk.
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