advbike

Thanks Mizz, that means a lot to me. Yeah, it was hard. You have been very helpful to me. Keep up the good work!

JustJohn

I think sobriety is too often made into a far more complex issue than it has to be. For me, it comes down to making up my own mind that I'm finally done with the insanity of my own actions. 100% of the time, it was ME that made the decision to consume ethanol in any of its many forms. It's no one's business to keep me sober except me. Drinking is a personal decision every time. We can blame external forces - but in reality, who made the decision to take all of the actions required to consume that first drink?

I finally decided it was time to knock off the bovine scat excuses and be done with it. That's the ONLY "system" that ultimately works.

And if I decide to drink again, that's 100% on me.

With all that stated above, there's nothing wrong with encouraging others to stay sober, and coming here to SR to seek out community in maintaining one's resolve to not take that first drink. We all KNOW exactly what the results will be if we decide to drink again.

Sobriety ultimately comes down to a single issue - personal responsibility.

advbike

Thanks John, your words have been very helpful to me. I commend you on your ability to use the RR approach so effectively, but think some of us just have a need to dive deeper into the behavioral and motivational factors involved in our thinking process. As you say, not taking that first drink is the key and the more motivated we are to do that the better.

JustJohn

Advbike - this isn't so much about you as it is me talking this out for myself. I don't want you to feel like I'm badgering you, but this is an interesting discussion.

At the risk of belaboring this issue - some RR folks even get on my nerves - they're not wrong, just annoying at times. It's not the "RR approach" - even Trimpy admitted that it is nothing new in his book. It's as old as the first human beings that realized they had to stop a destructive habit before it killed them or caused irreparable harm.

One question that has irritated me from the RR advocates is "what are your plans for the future use of alcohol." It is indeed a legitimate question that we have to ask ourselves if we are serious about permanent abstinence. It also can come across as ham-handed bludgeoning of someone who is perplexed at their inability to stop drinking even though they know it is slowly killing them and causing great mental and physical harm. But it is indeed a question that must be asked, pondered, and answered by oneself if permanent abstinence is desired, or if one wants to simply tilt at recovery.

Any evangelizing of one's methodology of recovery is off-putting. So I'll end this post here. Good luck in your quest for sobriety.

Aellyce

Not to discount the experience and achievements of anyone, but I think people who have had several months and years of continued sobriety can speak more easily about "just deciding not to drink", that "it is only the question of making a firm and permanent commitment", that "you will know when you have that forever commitment", and "staying sober is simple". They don't typically struggle with these awful, intense early cravings anymore. I remember being much more relaxed about it myself when I was about 2-3 months sober and I spread the word myself how it wasn't that difficult after all, how the urges subsided and I didn't need anything else but cognitive exercises such as AVRT, playing the tape forward etc. And if anyone, I am a super independent, self-motivated, internally inspired person, I don't know many others who have "internal locus of control" to the same extent. But addiction is something else.... so I was also one who spoke in my many SMART meetings at the beginning about how those cognitive gymnastics alone just didn't feel safe for me, and it was much better to use active distractions (mindless chores, going for a walk, even eating) for a while at the beginning. I just felt safer with that strategy for a month or two, when the AV chatter was too intense, and mine is always super intense initially. Didn't need those action-based distractions every time, but kind of figured out where the safe line was for me based on what I was feeling and thinking.

I just decided to pick up some of those similar strategies again yesterday because I just got tired of pure "mind control", and I already feel quite a bit better. Will continue this like I did last year until I reach the same state where I no longer get so stubborn cravings. Of course it is cool and "sexy" not needing anything else just some rational mental gymnastics to stay sober, and I would be someone who would want that the most, but the much more important question: is it safe and effective? I think we don't need to feel bad every day just to be able to say that we pulled it off all by ourselves - that's exactly why addiction exists, because most because can't overcome this with a snap of mind.

Just sharing this as well now, because people support us with all sorts of great suggestions, but I think it's very important to take everything critically and judge what may or may not be safe for ourselves, as no one else is the same person, no matter how well we may relate in some things. People are usually quite passionate about whatever has worked for them, but I do believe that memories of the intensity of these early struggles fade a bit with time, especially with a lot of time, and recovery is very individual even for those who love to be part of groups and effectively take inspiration from peers.

Mizz

When I read this last night I needed to think for a bit about what to say...... I don't think I conveyed the response that was really in my heart this morning. I read a book recently and in the book there is a chapter about winter always turning to spring. I kept thinking about this today....

Winter always turns to spring, Advbike. Keep fighting the good fight.

advbike

Thanks Mizz, nice metaphor for positive life changes.. I think I'm getting my resolve back. Wasn't difficult this afternoon. I washed the car, then went and had a gelato, haha. Doing fine tonight, finished cleaning up the kitchen and thinking about some of the posts here, and the other thread going about AV. I appreciate your checking in with me and sharing that nice thought.

Mizz

GELATO! Perfect time for it.

I've got to get to serious deep cleaning around here. The most exciting thing for this upcoming weekend is that our power washer will be delivered. I'm over the moon about power washing the carport and driveway. I even said to my S.O. "You can power wash anything but the Carport and the driveway! Those two jobs must be done by me!" Talk about controlling. I've just been dreaming about this since early Winter and I am about to make that dream a reality.

You are doing great, Advbike. I am so happy you shared here. I hope your heart is feeling better. What sort of books are you reading?

GerandTwine

I’m sure your AV feels better, too. I hear it saying “You must take these actions as a condition to help mix in with your ‘mind control’ and make it work right so you don’t swallow more alcohol”.

advbike

I have been having a lot of dreams lately. The ones where I barely make it out alive. Last night I was driving fast through the mountains, as I like to do, and a truck came around a corner, going way too fast. It started to tip, and as I swerved onto the shoulder it *just* missed me, going onto it's side and sliding down the road in the other direction. It was extremely vivid, and I found it interesting that the truck had a very blunt, but well defined front end. It was brutal looking.

I guess the message can't be any more clear, and this isn't the first one I've had lately.

So I'm done with all the mental equivocation. I made my Big Plan as I still lay in bed. I felt refreshed this morning because I sleep so well when I don't drink. This world is too beautiful, and there are too many problems to be solved, to waste any more time on this. I want to enjoy each day with a clear mind and a healthy body. And the birds are singing all over on this gorgeous desert morning, so with that..

I will never drink again, and I will never change my mind. - Advbike

Mizz

Yay!!!!!

tornrealization

I’m so glad to hear your resolve advbike!

advbike

Thanks to you both! It feels so good to have made a permanent decision to not drink again.

Buckley3

Tough times indeed.

Sounds like you do quite a bit of negotiating with booze. "That time was just this, but this time is this, I drank because of this" etc. etc.

Whether a person adheres strictly to AA or not I've grown to believe their step #1 is indispensible - "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, that our lives had become unmanageable." You didn't drink because of a bug, or because it's tough times, or insert reason here. You drank because you are trying to dance with booze and act like you can manage it. Maybe you can, maybe you can't - I don't know of course. Just recommending you to evaluate the simple statement in quotes above. If you can't manage it - leave it. Let go. Trust me - it's a MUCH better place to be.

Best to you-

B