DriGuy

I'm sorry I even posted that. I believe every word, but it's so simple, I had to end it with "Duh?!" I have no ability to predict the future. I can only exert the extent of my control over it. I tried to explain that I wasn't sure if that meant anything to anyone else. It did to me. Why? Just some minor point that I needed for clarification in my own head, not anyone else's. It may not relate to a single other person. Apparently, I was not able to communicate that it may not be meaningful to anyone else, but I tried here:
Beyond that I can't explain what I can't explain.

GerandTwine

If you affirm that we cannot predict whether we will remain permanently abstinent from alcohol, then you are deciding the pledge of permanent abstinence is an impossibility, or possibly just a rhetorical platitude that badly hungover people express as they ameliorate blowback from their last drunk.

GerandTwine

I’m not sure what’s going on Aellyce, as you asked me and DG some questions and then a few minutes later decided to end the thread.

Do you want responses?

Aellyce

Yes.

GerandTwine

In red, you are choosing to discard AVRT. It is your AV’s resolve to attempt to “weaken” something that cannot be weakened. If you do not identify that “feel” as IT and not YOU, then you are simply allowing YOURSELF to possess an impossibility. The superlative Big Plan cannot be weakened in any way. It is superlative by design.
It’s like saying zero may not really be zero, it might actually be one millionth above zero. Nope, cannot do. Zero is zero for the rest of my life.

Also, “such a powerful determination” re the Big Plan does not compute. “I will never drink again” cannot be graduated by degrees of “power”. Because that determination was a quick and simple act of willfulness - some electrons zipping here and there in my brain - no “degree of” involved. And once done, I cannot retract it. Thoughts or feelings about retracting it or it being weak are impossible and obviously the Addictive Voice, not liking the Big Plan.

An addict can cure an addiction with a pledge of permanent abstinence without doing AVRT (its been going on for thousands of years) but I know from experience, self talk separation from the AV (which you do not seem to be doing here) makes the cure of addiction offered by the pledge (the BP) a heck of a lot easier in today’s world that puts all kinds of conditions upon and opposition to that very useful pledge.

DriGuy

I get your point that the rhetorical platitude is not a pledge according to your definition, and I understand why you belabor that issue. But please don't do that with me. What are you wanting me to agree to? Why is this critical for you?

GerandTwine

Your whole point is 100% Addictive Voice of the habituated appetite for that deep pleasure. IT knows IT is Dead if we can predict for certainty “I will never drink again”. If YOU say we cannot predict that and that you have no way of explaining that alleged fact to us, then you are provoking in others concern over your own veracity.

Anna

The 'no recovery debate' rule is being pushed here.

AVRT is one method of recovery, as is AA, SMART, diy, whatever a member might choose. And, that's the point, it's a choice for each of us and no method needs to be pushed on others. You can explain your thinking/method, but please do not make others feel they are not doing the right thing or not doing enough.

Thanks.

DriGuy

I'll ask again what you want from me? It is my responsibility to listen closely, but this is a two way street. You have an equal or greater responsibility to explain to me clearly what you want. If it is agreement to the point above, I cannot because I'm not speaking through my AV. That is your charge. And the part about "habituated appetite for deep pleasure" is an absurd exaggeration that has no basis in my experience.

Others? I have confidence that people will take responsibility for themselves, and people do recover without the help of the formal AVRT program. I appreciate your enthusiasm. I'm enthusiastic about RR too. Maybe less so than you, but I don't worry about it. I'm not here to sell it to anyone. I just think it's a good program that is useful to many people.

GerandTwine

Quote:

I'll ask again what you want from me?

I don’t think I have ever wanted anything from anyone here on SR.
AVRT is a users manual for ending addiction.
The pledge of permanent abstinence is the gem within that manual.
All I want is the ability to refer to that manual here on SR.
Naturally it ends up getting done in the context of people’s thoughts and feelings that can be separated using the Technique.

Aellyce

Hi everyone, thanks a lot for the very insightful and useful contributions! I asked this thread to be closed at last. Stay tuned to other topics I might start in the future

Anna

Thanks, everybody. This thread seems to have run its course.