Aellyce

I've struggled with alcohol cravings a lot in the past, and just recently upgraded my approach to make AVRT my no. 1 tool to maintain sobriety. So this question is primarily for those who have been successful with this method, I would like to hear opinions. I have an appointment with my doctor tomorrow for other things, but I wondered if I should talk to her about getting one of those meds prescribed that can potentially alleviate cravings. I did consider this a few times before but never went ahead. I am very familiar with the drugs, how they work, and that they are far from very effective, but some people do have good experiences and I'm wondering if it would be a good idea for someone who otherwise uses self-directed methods to handle the AV. I need to decide by tomorrow morning.

doggonecarl

One could say that it's the addictive voice (AV) that is telling you that you can't get sober with AVRT alone, that you need additional help...need medicine.

Aellyce

Yes carl, I was thinking the same before posting, but wanted to see what others think. I would not have made an appointment for only this, but have it for other stuff, so just wondered if I should ask the doc at least for what she thinks. We can definitely say that even this wanting to have feedback is AV, and it is still trying to make my recovery more complicated than needs be, so it's just another whisper to ignore.

fishkiller

I guess I could say AVRT is my main tool. I do not do AA or any other type of program. If I get thoughts about using I shut that sht down immediately. I am only 14 months sober so not sure if I qualify as a success yet but in my opinion, my opinion only, the sooner we develop tools to overcome the AV on our own the better off we will be. Earlier in my sobriety I found myself unknowingly giving the AV space in my head and it made life very difficult until I realized what was happening and shut it down.
The AV is sneaky. Like Carl said, this very thought could be the AV telling you that you are too weak to do this. Don't listen to that garbage. Cravings are just thoughts. You have supreme power over your thoughts. Use it.

That said, do what you need to do. We are all different.

ScottFromWI

I am not an active member/practitioner of AVRT or AA, but I would also agree that it may just be your AV creeping in. Cravings are simply thoughts as others have alluded to, and I have never found a "magic pill" that would somehow replace my need to make responsible choices. I would even go so far as to say that when I was dealing with my anxiety issues, the meds I tried really didn't help at all with solving the root problem - and in some sense they might have pushed off my acceptance and addressing of the real problem.

Aellyce

I had a similar experience treating anxiety that isn't even severe. Actually self-medicating it with something that is freely available, mild, but was pretty effective for me. I took and very much liked it for a while, but then stopped because it's uncontrolled and under development, there is no information yet whether it's safe long-term. After a while, the same kind of anxiety returned, so it verified to me that the drug was effective, but I just didn't like even the idea of relying on something external for such a mild issue, long-term. Then figured out how to deal with the anxiety I tend to have using mental recognition, distractions, active shifts in focus and lifestyle - it's much more satisfying even. It was many years ago and I never had a panic attack since (even in recent years of heavy drinking), and there aren't many things my anxiety can interfere with now even though I sometimes feel it just the same.

I think taking meds for cravings is similar in that it could only be a temporary remedy even if it worked wonders momentarily, but my commitment to sobriety is permanent, so delaying the full application of the permanent solution is definitely faulty logic and sloppy. Plus, cravings meds might have unwanted side effects while using my mind surely wouldn't. I feel I just need to master recognizing the AVs full spectrum, a bit like recognizing all the different ways anxiety can manifest and distort perception and decisions. It's actually an interesting challenge for me, because I am otherwise very non-dogmatic in most affairs, and AVRT is definitely very single-minded and absolute - I need to tap into and develop parts of my mental abilities that I have not exercised very much yet in life. I guess it's learning a new skill, like any.

BeABetterMan

I take disulifram daily. The craving med did nothing for me. Medicine, to me, is the last line of defense. Working a recovery program is what keeps me sober.

Aellyce

The more I think about it, the more I realize this craving medication idea would be a bad one for me. Not only yet another (and new) complication, but I imagine it would just feed the AV more (probably it knows that already, why it asks for the possibility), giving it room like waiting for the meds to take effect, wondering if they do anything and if they work, fearing what will happen when I eventually need to stop them. It would certainly give me a whole new brand and series of useless thoughts and worries.

I think it would be very different if someone needed medical help with other mental health stuff like depression etc, but this is only cravings, and trying to target the AV alone with something external, that someone else prescribes, completely defeats the idea of managing it myself and the peace of mind coming with that. I've already experienced a great relief and new peace last weekend when I decided to take this approach, I feel it's very compatible with me because I do have pretty decent self-esteem and confidence when I don't drink. Why not capitalize on that fully and complicate again instead? Anything external would likely just make me feel less secure and at peace. I even felt much better immediately when I realized I won't have to obsess about scheduling recovery meetings and adjusting my days to fit them in (which had been an unpleasant side-effect even though I generally liked the meetings), that I can have a much simpler method that does not rely on those things or anything else. I do recognize it better now how it's AV chatter, how it tries to turn my determination backward and against me. F off!

Obladi

Disulfiram (Antabuse) is not an anti-craving med, but I think that's maybe what you meant, BaBM? I've tried many and I can confirm that there is no magic pill that whisks away cravings or desire to drink. Antabuse will make one violently ill if ya drink on it (and the medication dose is appropriate). Worked as a good prophylactic measure for me for a time. Until it didn't.

I think there is zero reason to not give anti-craving medications a try (unless of course, your system is ultra-sensitive). My perspective was, "If it might possibly help me just 1%, then meds go in the pot, because I need to throw everything at this thing." I wound up on gabapentin as the right "anti-craving" medication, not least of which is because it also seems to be a good anti-anxiety agent for me (in conjunction with sertraline).

I think there is a sneaky AV tendency to convince a person that employing strategies to support sustained sobriety are just more AV. I don't believe that at all. AVRT teaches me to recognize that voice of the beast is a one hit wonder - it reliably suggests booze as a solution to my problems. That is a helpful concept. Also it's helpful to know that it takes time for our neural pathways to get rewired. Why not give that process an assist, whether it be via running, needlepoint, bocci ball, hot saunas, meditation, (non-addictive) medication, or all of the above? I don't rely on my medication to prevent me from drinking, but it would be sheer folly for me to stop taking it. The worst it's doing for me is not making any difference. There's no boogie man there - just plain common sense.

If you're not looking for benzos or for a magic pill, I think it's fine to explore that option just as you might any/all other avenues to supporting your sobriety.

O

p.s. The way I understand it, the medication quiets the beast, not the AV. At least that's how I seem to experience it.

Aellyce

Thanks O, but this complicated line of reasoning is exactly what I was doing all the time before and don't need. I also don't need meds for anxiety or anything else, and the idea of Antabuse would just induce fear (it uses fear and aversion) that is not there even now. Why induce it? Plus, having to do regular doctor visits or whatever for prescription medication - I don't have any known condition that requires meds or supervised maintenance other than annual preventive right now, so why add one, especially if its chances are so weak and the contraindications (including messing with a much more straightforward method) are significant?

I've made up my mind now, thanks all! It was an interesting exercise so I don't regret posting

Aellyce

Apologies, I didn't want to sound mean, but I was probably a bit too blunt in my last post. Definitely very much appreciate all the feedback and suggestions, I'm just weighing them with my own instincts and judgments. Too much openness regarding my recovery was part of my issue in the past I think though. Thanks again!

Obladi

No worries, Aellyce. You did ask for opinions, though.
I wasn't recommending Antabuse, just clarifying it's not an anti-craving medication.

If you are truly on the course of AVRT, nothing will change your mind, so it really doesn't matter what you do - as long as you refrain from putting alcohol in your system.

To Thine Own Self Be True
O

sortofhomecomin

Similarly, the anti-craving med campral didn't do anything for me though some people on my Lifering group report excellent results with it. Different things work for different people.

Mizz

I do hope you have an answer for yourself.
If you are able to get a few months sobriety then I think you are able to get through the "craving" that comes without using a medication for assistance.

Getting on here and working through the craving has presented challenges. If you dont tell the truth about what you are going through then no one can assist you when **** is hitting the fan. You can analyze this is every way imaginable. You have. The real work is when the craving is there and then what road are you going to take? One that is honest or one that succumbs to vodka and then confesses a relapse a few days or even weeks later?

You can do this. You have done it before.

I know you wanted responses from people who take medications that help with cravings. I am not one of those people but I am a person who is sober, who has worked through some epic cravings and anxieties and who knows that you can do this.

Aellyce

Those are good points Mizz, thanks. I do think I can handle it with the resources and people in my real life and, most importantly, being honest with myself. After all, how transparent I am with myself is what matters the most, and it's also the influence I listen to the most. I usually do my best in all affairs when I am accountable to my own values and standards primarily and to a few compatible others who play important roles in my real life, so that's what I am going to do. The feedback I got here on SR from a few people that my recovery and its methods don't need to be complicated is the most golden advice I've ever gotten in this area of my life, and I will follow it because it rings true relative to how I know myself, it clicks with every bit of my instincts as well.

Gottalife

Deciding on solutions is very dependent on clearly identifying the true nature of the problem. Mine was that though I honestly wanted to, I could not quit entirely. Even though I managed one reasonable stretch of 3 or 4 months on my own power one time, it was just time between drinks. On top of that I developed an abnormal reaction to alcohol where,once I took a drink, I could not guarantee when I would stop, and disaster often followed. That first drink was something I had no defense against. Though I often started the day with a firm intention not to drink, I ended it drunk, having started again with no conscious thought of the consequences.

Part of that getting started had to do with an obsession of the mind that booze could still work like it used to when I first started drinking, and this is the important part. Booze had been my solution to life. It was the one and only way I could get right with the world. Getting drunk wasn't the point, that was the consequence of an abnormal reaction. The point was to get right. As time went on and I tried various ways to stay sober, it became clear to me that sobriety was a horrible experience, so I returned to my old solution in the vain hope that this time would be different.

So lets say that the obsession is on me again, I have got the idea that a drink will set me right and arguments against have faded completely. Lets call this a craving, I am hanging out for the only solution that has ever worked for me. Usually, by the time my mind is in this state of insanity, nothing will do but a drink, but let's say on this occasion I have the presence of mind to take an anti-craving pill, and now I don't feel like drinking.

What I have achieved is to remove the solution without replacing it with something else, so I am condemned to the horrible, miserable experience that life sober was for me. Many an alcoholic, being dry at the time but suffering from untreated alcoholism (i.e. just not drinking) has found life so unbearable they have ended it. So for me as an alcoholic of a particular type, anti craving pills look more like a suicide pill. To stay sober it has to be worthwhile, and a solution has to be found that works better than the old solution. That is probably more than a medication can deliver.

Aellyce

Thanks for sharing all that, Gottalife. It's always interesting to hear people's stories of alcoholism and recovery. Mine is quite different in that I absolutely love to be sober, didn't even drink much until my early 30s (but then got hooked quickly). People here on SR always say it doesn't matter why we drink, and investigating it is useless, but just because you included a subjective perception in your story... here is mine. I personally never thought I needed to drink to be or feel right, to cope with anything, numb, or whatever. Don't think anyone on SR could even claim I blamed my drinking on others, externals, circumstances etc. I love the part of the RR book that describes "why we drink" (the real deal, not the excuses it also lists), I think that applies to a certain type of drunk as well, I instantly identified with it, but I knew it already. I did it for the pleasure, then got addicted to it, simple as that. Never reached a state some people describe where drinking was no longer pleasurable, so that kept motivating me. It was more that the alcoholism dulled my ability to enjoy other, normal things in the long run, but even a lot of that ability came back pretty soon in my recent sobriety. It was hands done some of my best times in the last 10 years at least, including all the exciting perspectives and changes I started to make. I do not suffer sober. Drinking, of course, caused a lot of struggle. But have these moments when my AV (or Beast, as RR calls it) can't accept limits and wants excess of every good thing. Just had a success, relief, accomplishment? Best time to not stop and want more pleasure, and alcohol brings that quickly!

These elements of my story are, in part, why the advice to take it simple feels very right to me. Before, I always overcomplicated attempts to get sober, and refused to compromise with a healthy balance of everything. I must say I didn't even try seriously more than once (everything else was a lie mostly), and that was the recent ~3 months that I loved. So I'm quite convinced I won't have any problems with not liking my sobriety and needing a lot more to feel right. Part of the reason I decided not to risk psychotropic medication even just for cravings is because I don't want my brain to be altered, I liked how it worked in my recent sober stint. The "more" that I need, I think, is simply a good, healthy, balanced, mature life with interesting occupations and challenges, and some peace occasionally - a normal life really. I do believe I know very well how to have that as I made it happen for myself before. I like what I have created of my life, without the years of drinking it could be better, but still pretty fine for me. But I seriously need to learn to live it without denying limits and doing everything I like to excess, whether it's thinking, mental stimulation from engagements, sensory pleasures, whatever...sometimes even meaningful, spiritual-type experiences.

I think I also know part of the reason it started: maybe some inborn predisposition as there were alcoholics in my extended family, but I grew up in a very free way, in a protective "bubble" where I was just encouraged to always seek and do what I want, very little discipline and limits imposed on anything. Not that I blame anything for that, especially because it led to some of my boldest and most successful endeavors as well. But this is my hardest way of learning it finally, getting and staying sober from alcohol. I also struggled with discipline in other areas when younger, but fine with those now for the most part. So I must agree with those who suggest that dampening my cravings chemically (again) would probably be a very bad idea for me as it would only make it easier in the short run, and I still would not learn to say 'no' to my desires and wants, in a normal, natural way. I think doing too many, diverse things for recovery would just dilute this process and distract me from the one main lesson I need to focus on.

Hmm, I still also need to learn how not to make excessive posts on this forum - I always say but never implement, there is surely some laziness here as well

Steely

Condense. Write an abstract.

I was offered Campral as part of a trial in detox.

I declined after reading full list of side effects. Doing it on my own has been best, for me. I want no attachment to alcohol, but that's just me.

It became less about technique than the knowing for me. Became conscious of what I was doing to myself, and thought I was worth more. The jig was up.

Came to know that no amount of brain pain would be soothed by alcohol. Had to learn to self soothe. Feel. Grow through it.

I have not been disappointed Aellyce even though it has been incredibly painful.

Aellyce

Yeah, I dumped the medication idea for myself a couple days ago when I said it and don't feel any interest in reconsidering. I've had a few "AV attacks" in the past week or so, but find it much easier to ignore them with real AVRT now. It's not painful at all, the mental conflict can just be uncomfortable in the moment. I don't even think I need to learn how to soothe anything other than that. I deal with some anxiety, but that has always been around and I mastered it pretty well younger, plus not drinking and being engaged in my life eliminates the more challenging parts of it - that was the case during my sober months earlier and also now in the past week. I find it much more helpful and inspiring to focus on the many interesting projects in my life than analyzing the Beast's feelings and all that BS, way more productive . I also don't think I need to continue discussions about these things, that was part of my long-standing issue.

Mizz

Your issue is overanalyzing sobriety and writing long posts, ya?

Thinking deeply about "stuff" is a large part of what makes Aellyce. At least that is what I have gathered from this thread and other threads. Ive learned from your posts.... Just to let you know!

I do think that for my own sobriety it has been more helpful for me to "do" and not think so much about the whys. My last round of sobriety was filled with a lot of overanalyzing and it really felt like I was spinning in the same place mentally and not making headway. My head was not a safe and nurturing place. This go round, I have set boundaries on the analyzing and ruminating. Maybe that is what I am getting at? I was in a place of rumination prior and I could not get free of it. I was not happy being sober. I struggled BIG TIME. I focused on all the wrong things and it didn't help that my marriage, MIL, and other life things were falling apart. My head space and emotions were not changing. I relapsed a few weeks shy of a year.

This is my 3 or 4th serious attempt at sobriety. What is different? Everything and nothing. I take the day as an opportunity to do better. To ground myself a bit more. To look at my anxiety and use "tools" for coping. To be clear headed. I have today. I choose to not think too much about the past or even the future. I actually just thought recently (as in the last few weeks) that I should think about a 5 year plan. Where do I see myself in 5 years? What is it that will help me to feel a little more accomplished in this life?
Why have I not thought of any of this before? I dont know. It is what it is. So.......Im rambling here. There "right here and right now" is really all that matters. Not making things complicated is my goal. Staying in the present and staying sober. The sober thing has become easier and I dont think about drinking. I am noticing there is REAL joy in my day. ......
Here. Now. Present.
Thanks for reading.