Mizz

DriGuy!
I read your story about sailing into the ocean last night. I fell asleep thinking about it and then woke up to your story in my head this morning. What an amazing thing you did. Talk about facing your fears and also living your dreams.

You literally and metaphorically did something so powerful there. It really has me looking at my life right now and thinking about fear. What I am about to say is a little off topic and may or may not fit in with "approach avoidance conflict" .......

When we get sober, we are all over the map. Our little boat is sailing along and there is some sketchy waters. We wonder if getting sober is in fact that right thing to do? Its scary. Its overwhelming and can get troublesome. With enough perseverance we are able to see that our boat is not going to sink. We are sailing in the right direction and the "idea" has truly manifested itself into our lives. We are no longer dreaming of what could be. We are actually doing it. No sense in throwing in the towel once we made it through the initial fear and our sea legs are actually working. When others come along with their fears and not knowing of the unknown we have the knowledge to help them through because we took those first few steps. We understand the emotions surrounding it. We know its a process.

I know that you were talking of finally doing something and then having doubts once you got to the "doing."
Alleyce is also speaking of this as well.

I think the message I received was "Do not let fear stop you from living your dreams"

That is what I really got from your awesome story........


Alleyce, DO NOT LOOK BACK! You got this. Look forward. Keep looking forward.

DriGuy

That's what was intended, but also with an important but not so clearly stated sidebar. Much of what we fear is the unfamiliar. But that is not worth the fear we assign it. We work around problems or solve them when they happen. If your self steering fails, you steer by hand. When that happened to me, I knew the solution, but I aggravated the feeling of crisis by immediately refocusing on what else might go wrong. I met and solved an unexpected problem, but immediately set myself up to react to the next unknown with fear. Holding onto the fear of the next unknown was a waste of energy, because there is always a next unknown, which we solve or work around. Life is full of unknowns. Something always happens, and the solution is never ever facilitated by reaching for a bottle.

I believe Aellyce is going to successfully navigate the challenges of the future. Normies wouldn't put that much emphasis on not drinking, but for the rest of us alcoholics, not drinking is a monumentally high priority when reaching for the future. Aellyce faces a challenge, and doing it sober will become an eventual point of well deserved pride and an inspiration for the rest of us.

Steely

And it will pass.

Aellyce

Thanks again, everyone. Yes that was an amazing and inspiring story, DriGuy, about sailing. I didn't mean to dismiss it earlier, but felt indeed quite trapped in my episode of craving, it took over my entire mental focus for a while. But it did pass like storms do. For me, it was not associated with the feeling or fear of challenge much, more a part of that typical pattern, when I get strong drinking urges when very positive things or sudden relief happen. I should have dealt with it better because I did have a great plan. But I didn't execute all of it; once again, good plan - no action - misery. Super predictable, and I predicted it here openly - amazing that it's still possible to lose focus and get paralyzed by it, even if only for a short while. But it only shows that my addiction does need a lot more treatment, I'm very far from being recovered or something similar. Instead of doing that walk and the self-care weekend, I got stuck in those thoughts and didn't do the things that could have neutralized/changed them much more quickly and probably easily. Didn't even attend a meeting all weekend. I absolutely need to get back into my real recovery regimen that worked so well when I followed it every day, until about 2 weeks ago, when I made too many excuses regarding being busy, having no time etc. And I will, starting today.

Ironically, a stupid little incident happened yesterday morning - if I was more of a believer or a mystic, or perhaps just superstitious, probably would take it as a seemingly innocent sign that I'm off-track and not everything will magically work out in the simplest way. I spoke about getting some dental work done on other threads - now the only thing left is to finish one crown, one that I'm getting mostly for cosmetic reasons. So the temporary fell off yesterday and it scared me for a minute because that hasn't happened since >15 years ago once, when I was getting veneers, also for aesthetics. I was so pi$$ed (Sunday, and my dentist now only works Wednesdays/Thursdays), but remembered that now they have temporary dental cement in the drugstores for accidents like this - so I went and got some. Then it was really annoying to try to make it work and glue the stupid crown back, and I din't think I did it correctly as it feels weird - so I'm calling the dentist this morning as soon as they open. They must be able to see me and fix this soon, I'm not comfortable doing my own cementing if this happens again. Anyhow, the incident definitely snapped me out of that darn AV mode, so that's the silver lining

I'm not afraid of the challenges and the unknown much, at least any fear is very far from the discomfort with staying in the same situations - if anything, I feel motivated by them to stay sober. I thought about this many times before I made the decision to quit my job and tried to imagine how a career change might affect my recovery, including if it does not turn out the way I'm hoping. SMART has a "cost benefit analysis" tool, which they most typically recommend for assessing the impact of maladaptive behaviors on our lives to realize how self-sabotaging they are, but it can be applied to anything and I did run it on this career decision several times. The result was very clear each time, and I need to revisit that in the future if I happen to get fearful about it. It was abundantly clear that staying in the old situation would have posed much more risks on my recovery, for a variety of reasons. Not only because many specific engagements belonging to the job tended to be triggering, more because the whole thing was not fulfilling anymore and just gave me a constant sense of being stuck (much like with drinking itself) and beating myself up that I can't get any further. Then, of course I would also want to escape from tasks related to it, into momentary "highs" that never worked and just caused me more problems - like getting drunk instead of working, handling my work relationships inappropriately etc. Those things can be worked on as isolated challenges (and I have worked on them), but much harder if the larger context does not provide satisfaction, so there is an even stronger pull to seek it from transient, but even more unfulfilling, mental states and conditions. So the same idea as other elements of my holistic plan, and I think the approach-avoidance conflict fits here very well. I will never truly and stably resolve it if I only try to treat certain symptoms, but not the actual disordered construct. I think often it's not very clear what the real problems are in one's life in early sobriety, but I feel my situation was/is so clear, there was no mystery whatsoever about what things need to change. This is why I made the decisions about the job and my home. None of them were horrible or even bad, they had many benefits and good moments, but not what I aim for at this point of of my life. And I can afford to take the risks because financially I'm okay for years even without working (even though I only plan to take a few months off). I am also very convinced I don't need to belong to an organization professionally to do a good job and feel happy - was not planned, but the pandemic year has proven that.

So, cutting today's novel a bit shorter, I will get back into participating in SMART and Recovery Dharma - now finally have all the time to also get into some of the literature in depth, beyond just the basic books they have. This is something I really look forward to, with regular meetings again. I definitely experienced the dangers of neglecting my program in the past month or so, and that is far too big a risk, not even attractive now that I have a lot of free time and don't need to deal with tons of boring, unwanted tasks. The recovery work was exciting and inspiring and I'm ready to engage now full-time, even have a few new ideas what to try. Just need to remember the good old banality about action in every moment, not just planning and thinking I do believe very strongly it will work out well if I stick to that principle and discipline.

Mizz

I like your brain, Aellyce! I really like how you process life and how you are able to express yourself.

It seems to me like you did everything in your power, at the time, to get through the cravings. I know you are saying that you could of done more work and it would of been easier but I see a person who made it through without resorted to alcohol. So, I am going to say that you did do the work and you did make it through! YAY! You did it!

As for cementing the tooth. Ya, I would not feel comfortable doing that either. Seems really tricky and I don't have the skill set or confidence to be my own dentist They have to see you very soon. This is very important.
When this tooth gets fixed will a craving get triggered? Perhaps now is the time to put in all that work, like you mentioned before, to ease any craving that may kick in?

Good job all around! For reals. You're an inspiration!

Aellyce

Haha Mizz - thank you. The dental office put me in this morning, so hopefully this will be fixed better than I did soon. Great that I no longer have the job, because I would have to be in meetings all morning and it would be tricky to reschedule, but now I can just go to the dentist on a whim. Unfortunately my dentist is not there until Weds and the person on the phone said others cannot make a new temporary. I really think this one is cr@p, does not fit well and is leaky, but the dentist is back Wednesday in case it falls apart again.

Yeah, interesting (however annoying) exercise to face my triggers more, but I really wish this dental project was just completely over already, even if another strong craving followed the completion

DriGuy

There's lots of good stuff throughout your entire post, but the above paragraph strikes me as a preface to much of what followed. And more importantly, I think it articulated something that is an essential key to recovery. I didn't suffer from this particular issue, but I remember being ultra aware of how prone I would be to slips, not drinking slips, but that slacking off that takes place almost naturally (for me anyway), as I struggle with many life situations.

Knowing how hard it had been for me to get around to sobriety during all those years of drinking and wishing for other outcomes, I was acutely aware of needing to remain on focus during sobriety because of it's importance, and also knowing how easy it is to slack off when things are satisfactory and "good enough" replaces "doing my best." Somehow, this no drinking project struck me as requiring zero tolerance for error, and "good enough" was now not good enough.

It's like when a bridge building engineer develops a list of materials based on known load bearing capabilities. He doesn't shoot for the minimum load bearing requirements. He multiples everything by a factor of 5. OK, I'm not an engineer, and I don't know what factor is actually used, but the point is bridges are overbuilt for obvious safety reasons. So it was with my sobriety plan. Zero error tolerance and a safety factor intentionally set to err on the side of safety, and no allowances for shortcuts or deviations from the plan.

When AA called for 90 meeting in 90 days, I did a little bit more, and after 90 days, I stuck with 90 more meetings for the next 90 days. It helped that I mostly liked the meetings, and it was an even bigger help that I had absolutely nothing better to do with time after work than to maintain my sobriety by checking in nightly at a meeting. I couldn't say I didn't have time for meetings, because I had at least 8 hours more each night since I quit drinking. But it wasn't just about meetings. I had really no idea how many meetings were necessary in my particular case. I just didn't have anything more important to do.

But meetings aside, I felt this zero deviation tolerance for monkey business when my AV would start up. I had never heard of the AV at that time, but you can bet I knew it was there. I didn't engage it at all. I made up my mind to treat it with rude disregard like the petulant child it was, and I did that. I vowed that if friends invited me out where alcohol would be, I would say no, and if they persisted, even a little, I would rudely cut them off. I was fully ready to terminate long time friendships for my own selfish sobriety. As it turns out, I didn't have to do much of that, and when I did, it was not nearly as harsh as I was prepared to go if I had to. Those few old friends in that category are still friends that still respect each other, but we associate very very little now.

Nothing, no friend, no dire life circumstance, no bull$hit from my own brain was going to get in my way. Getting off the alcohol merry-go-round was much too important. But this sort of hyper-vigilance wasn't like an obsessive compulsion disorder. It didn't interfere with anything important in my life, and it became easy, then natural, and eventually second nature. I seldom think about it anymore, but now it's the way I automatically react to thoughts of drinking, resentments, and challenges. I went to my last AA meeting 10 years ago. I'd go again if I needed to, but I don't feel the need anymore, and much of it doesn't fit my personal philosophy about life. Not to say there isn't some good stuff in AA. There's a lot, but much of it, I don't need. And I have found something else of my own that is much more powerful.

OK, to get off my high horse, I like your plan, and I agree that you should take it more seriously. You know what you need to do, but knowing is not quite enough. You need to DO what you know you need to do.

Aellyce

Okay, tooth fixed for now, but it's annoying they leave me with this obviously not-properly-done temporary crown until mid next week. They just cemented it back, hopefully better than I did yesterday. Luckily this is the last bit of the treatment plan I wanted to complete, but I will consider carefully whether I want to go back to this dental office in the future - the dentist is super friendly but I have had so many complications there, and while some are unpredictable, others have definitely been somewhat sloppy work. I do give them a hard time because they take so much of my money and time, and they are very accommodating, but this is not about being nice, they should do better work with a lower error rate. It's a very popular, high-tech office and they get excellent reviews, not sure why I've encountered so many complications in a row. When pieces of their work is completed, it is usually a very good fit and looks beautiful, but so many rounds of adjustments on the go. Anyway, I'll try to be ultra careful with this temporary until next week. And if it seems sloppy again before the permanent crown, will go back this Wednesday or Thursday when my dentist is there - he must be able to do better even if it's just a temporary. The other temps they did were much better.

DriGuy - thanks so much for taking the time to share your experiences and react to mine. Most of the things you post on my threads click with me super well, including the style and analogies you use. Maybe we have generally more in common than the experience of alcoholism (like in thinking style, approaches to life etc), or maybe you are just someone who can easily get attuned to various people's style, but the things you say really work for me. Especially on this thread. The notes about sobriety having to be perfect business, no room for error, rather over-securing it than under... the metaphor of the engineer building bridges and having to carry that level of responsibility and actually have the resourcefulness... it works so well to highlight the message for me, because I'm actually naturally like that in most areas of life. There is always a plan B, C, D and so on, and I tend to invest a great deal of effort in everything that matters to me - except when I choose to drink instead. I'm usually very good at different kinds of contingency management - this is even reflected in my career because a lot of my new business is about strategy, helping others design and maintain projects/strategies that will likely lead to long-term success, but they don't feel knowledgeable and resourceful enough to do it without the extra help, so they hire a consultant. So the things you write never come across as "high horse" to me because I relate to it very easily and you speak just the right things.

The addiction is pretty much the only thing that seriously challenged this ability in my life so far in any longer-term manner, but this is exactly the reason that recovery needs to remain the number one on the importance of things, because if that fails, I won't be able to do my best in other areas either and will just continue existing in that annoying, disappointing, and half-a$$ed limbo state - maybe it's still good enough for some, but not for my own standards. So I very much like the zero tolerance attitude. SMART has, for example, this more mellow, accepting attitude when they discriminate between "lapses" and "relapses", but I don't agree with that part of it, or let's say it's not for me. I like parts of that program the most that target the management of urges with practical, tangible tools, and meetings where that gets discussed a lot, because these are what I need the most, at least now. Also the lifestyle stuff they have under their "Point Four: Living a Balanced Life". The latter is just what I am doing now in changing several aspects of my life, for better satisfaction and fulfillment. It works well for me, but will only continue to do so as long as I'm 100% on top of my drinking urge management. Interestingly, I don't have any issues with dealing with negative emotions and managing relationships, which are some of the major areas people talk about in meetings (even here on SR). Then I often hear from others that the urge management is not much of a problem for them or it stopped being a problem after a couple months or even sooner. It's good that not everything is a problem for everyone at least

I also generally want to focus much more now on various aspects of my physical wellbeing - it's lucky that I didn't end up with serious negative health consequences from all the drinking, but I need to do more and develop it further (e.g. the exercise), especially because I'm no longer young and will not bounce back from everything just based on some lucky genes or whatever. It's a great thing that spring is coming now, so I can get out much more and enjoy the outdoors, which is always very positive for me, and I much prefer to do exercise outside than at home or at a gym.

DriGuy

First, thank you for letting me know I had something to say that can be of use.

Second, I agree that you cannot be at the top of your game when you are drinking. I have heard that some people accomplish a high level of success, as measured by standards commonly used to measure success, but I don't think they are the norm, and I doubt they are working at full capacity. I accomplished a lot when I was drinking too, but I could have done a lot more too. The worst part for me was that drinking started to become this overshadowing pall over my outward personality. I was starting to embarrass myself when I recognized that people were starting to view me as a drunk. I may still have been likeable, but I realized I was one of those people I worked with, even respected, but would show up for evening meetings, with alcohol on their breath Being that person was personally awful. But that was just outward persona stuff. The real pain was deeper inside, on a level that began to scare me. It was nightmarish and it was the last part of a downward spiral that I remember about drinking.

After I had a few months of sobriety under my belt, for some reason, I kept running into this guy I worked with who was always smelling like alcohol. Mostly we seemed to see each other at this video rental store. He was always at that stage where if he paid close attention, he wouldn't wobble or give away his condition, but he was always on his way into the bottle. I liked that guy, and thought he was pretty good at his job, but I always had this sad feeling about him when I would see him like that. I've long since moved away, and I don't know what became of him. I hope he's OK.

Probably no ready made program can provide everything you need and even contain some things that are not useful at all. That's the nature of programs, and I think the ability to sort out the useful stuff is very important. We are all different and you already have some excellent life tools that don't need to be reinvented. You can move on and address the problem areas.

I remember shocking myself one morning when I decided not to go skiing because I would rather stay home and drink that day. That was one of those earlier red flag alerts that something was going seriously wrong with my life. It didn't make me quit, but it was the first time I realized that my drinking was beginning to take a serious toll on activities that had always been important to me. Lot's of people drink and ski, although it's not recommended for obvious reasons, but when you get to a point where you have to choose one or the other, it's time for a self evaluation.

Aellyce

The whole complex perception and definitions of accomplishment and success can be so subjective and varied, I think it's not even worth thinking about it much, especially as far as how other people see us and evaluate what they can see. Luckily, caring much about what others think, creating my life to fit external expectations, people-pleasing etc has never been part of me and my life much. I actually needed to learn at middle age to care about these things a bit more, mostly for the sake of some level of surface conformity, so that I can have even more freedom and use my resources (including human resources) more effectively. What I can struggle with is my own high standards and expectations of myself (part of why I was trying to delude myself and lie about sobriety for a long time) and sometimes associated hiding and hypocrisy. But I very much like this "internal locus of control" that I have naturally pretty much always used. This is also part of why the SMART program clicked with me instantly, because that's how the program works and empowers people: provides tools, community and support to develop our own resources, recovery and life fulfillment.

One thing I really like about abstinence-based recovery though (apart from the obvious) is that it's very simple, there are no complex and subjective standards. The goal is not to drink, and to sustain that for life, however one achieves it. Of course the individual journey can be as diverse as it gets, but there is this simple, universal, common goal - it's very no-nonsense and does not change over time.

Yeah, I think we all sacrifice a $hit load of great things for those transient and destructive pleasures drinking gives us over the years. But non-addicts do too, in many other ways, driven by many other conditions and maladaptive choices. I don't see us as addicts disadvantaged as a group, going through the decades of a normal lifespan will bring challenges to everyone and we will inevitably mess up many things. It's more about how we can, or cannot, learn from it, resolve the issues, and strive for improvement. But I do need to pay attention to my motivation for improvements, because if it gets too much in sobriety, it also interferes with inner peace and satisfaction big time. That was part of my story when younger and drinking, in part, arose as a compensation to never feeling satisfied enough and not wanting to feel that pull all the time, escaping from it into oblivion. It's very rarely difficult for me to say 'no' to others, but to say no to self (not only to destructive things about also to have some restraint when it comes to the good things about evolution) is a whole different challenge... and still balance that with the generally high internal standards I tend to have for quality, competency, personal goals and such. This is why I like that Schema Therapy thing I mentioned earlier and identify so much with their "impaired limits" domain. It goes pretty far and deep for me, far from just the struggle with drinking, but it definitely motivated my drinking at the beginning. Anyhow, don't want to get too psychological and abstract here.

My apartment application thing has progressed a bit further since yesterday: I now have a set time for an interview for it next Monday. If that goes well, that's it, and the place I liked so much will be mine. It would be a crazy good deal in NYC, why I was stress about it a lot. Now I feel pretty calm about it. But the new place would definitely give me a lot more to do for the coming couple months, to make it my new home - I decided that I'm selling almost all of my furniture and will get new things . Maybe "impaired limits" for so many new things within such a short period of time, but why not? Will just need to pay attention that my mind does not go crazy again wanting to "celebrate" another relief and upgrade. Well, I am sure the AV will (again, very predictable), so more incentive to keep those recovery methods up. I re-started attending to SMART meetings and working with those spreadsheets again and will get more deeply into Recovery Dharma now because the latter has a great deal of good things that feel very compatible with me in terms of values and goals, even beyond not drinking. We'll apparently have a few nice warmer days here, so I will go out to the parks with my devices, read and maybe attend meetings from there.

Vincent484

Simplicity is what has helped me as well. I have gotten into Stoicism in my recovery and find that they fit each other quite well as far as the focus is on simplicity.

(1) All I can control is my thoughts and my actions
(2) Don't Drink
(3) Act in goodness and think positive thoughts. Do the best that you can at everything you do
(4) Realize that even if you do the best you can, not everything is going to work out. No matter how good you are, not everyone will like you. You'll fail and be disappointed occasionally, often through no fault of your own. The outcome is out of your control, so don't worry about it. Just focus on your actions and thoughts.

Aellyce

Thanks Vincent. This is a great reminder of the things various people here (maybe you were one of them, don't remember now) were also suggesting to me during the first few days sober last November, about simplicity. That was one of the pieces of advice I appreciate the most once I managed to grasp what it meant, and I need to remember how well it worked for me when I start complicating things again I am also naturally drawn to Stoicism in many ways, so it's a great context if I want to apply philosophies that click with me pretty easily.

Aellyce

So finally I had the dental project finished on Wednesday and quite like the end result. I really hope that I won't have to see the dentist for anything else except cleanings for a while, but I know dealing with my teeth will never end for me, much like any other chronic condition one has to take care of. It was also me deciding to get cosmetic enhancements already in my 20s... it looks good on the outside but it's also high-maintenance. Of course the AV went a bit crazy all afternoon after my last appointment - it's fascinating how predictable it is even when I really try to take my mind off and not ruminate on it much.

I was also thinking this morning how much more just general, normal life events and stressors have become noticeable in sobriety with a bit more time. I feel now I'm getting a much better grasp on what many people say about some feelings getting more intense in early sobriety, after escaping and numbing out for so long, not truly dealing with stressors and challenges. In an objective assessment, I have progressed so much with improving my life in the past ~3 or so months, but it also feels like it's been such a long time, and there is always something (sometimes unexpected) crap to deal with. Surely though, I was the one who took on some challenges that were not 100% necessary to deal with now, so I don't blame circumstances and uncertainty at all, but am definitely noticing more the proverbial more intense emotions it brings now. Still don't mind the elevated stress-perception - it definitely comes with a more genuine sense of success and satisfaction as well, so the benefits outweigh the costs for me. Worrying about aspects of ordinary life is so much better, not about where my self-destruction will take me next, how I can hide or deny all that. I try to view my alcohol cravings as a side effect of dealing with the alcoholism and general life head on, not just something I wish never existed or went away completely like some magic.

Aellyce

Just had the interview for my dream apartment this evening, and I think it went very well. For those who wonder WTF is this interviewing for an apartment, check out "co-op application NYC" - it's an insane process to just get your next home here, whether renting or buying. It's a long, complex and arduous process, one that also involves "X-raying" pretty much your whole life - need to have a certain level of stable, predictable income, similarly good savings/assets, abide to a host of building rules (I sacrificed my wish for having a cat for it, oh well, next time). The application process starts with high standards already, then culminates in this board interview I had today. But if you can get into such an establishment, it often comes with less rent, property tax, some other benefits in maintenance things as well.

I was on an edge not only last weekend, but today was horrible - super hard day for me before the interview, I didn't only have nightmares before, but could not eat and just generally felt awful and paralyzed. Could not find my place all day no matter what I tried. Also constant recurring background thoughts, I guess straight from the AV - "if this gets approved, I'll be approved for a night of **** as well".

In the end, the interview was easy, hardly 10 minutes. They asked me to say a few words about myself first, then each member had 1-2 simple questions, mostly about why I want to move there and what I have seen of the building. In the end, they all said versions of "welcome to the building", so I guess that's good. The broker I'm working with in this new home search sent me a "good luck" message prompt at the time of my interview and called me immediately after I said it was done. Not sure what all of you guy's experiences are with real estate... for me, this has been super stressful but extremely professional and helpful, so far. I have also never felt so cared for by a professional agency, will recommend these brokers to others for sure.

Of course my AV has taken this, like any other even significantly relieving and successful similar experiences, to sneak in and compromise. I'm still in that awful mental state (once again). I just realize that part of the reason it's so difficult is because there is this gap between success and yet another day or hour.

NOOOOO!!!!!

It was also a godsend when I read one of my all-time favorite quotes earlier this darn day, posted by @lessgravity on another thread:
"Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor Frankl

I did expect my apartment interview to go well, but I was extremely anxious as I had never done that before. I also know my AV "thrives" on success and good experiences. So here is a simple conclusion, AV

Aellyce

Please anyone reading this, say something... it's been a super hard day for me, and trying to wind down the right way, but missed most of my recovery meeting opportunities tonight.