Aellyce

Has anyone tried the Recovery Dharma? I have been using SMART and love everything about it, been a true life saver. However, at this point I am also interested in something more spiritual that aligns with my personal interests and values, plus I love meditation and it's a big part of Recovery Dharma as a Buddhism-inspired program, they also have many guided meditation meetings online. I've heard of it recently in one of my SMART meetings (some people use it together with other programs) and read what's available online, but have never spoken with anyone about it. I plan to start by attending some of their online meetings but thought to also ask here if anyone has experience.

FreddyGeorge

Hi,

i haven’t heard of it but it sounds interesting and I’ll look into as i am very much into Buddhism as well. Thanks for flagging it up! Namaste

Aellyce

I read online that Recovery Dharma is a relatively new initiative that started after another Buddhism-based program called Refuge Recovery split up. Perhaps more people are familiar with Refuge Recovery - they still exist, but these are two separate programs now. One difference, as far as I can see online, is that Recovery Dharma is a completely peer-led organization and does rely on any one particular leader, does not even have the one-on-one mentorship aspect that Refuge Recovery still has. I personally much prefer such a relatively democratic program that is not dominated by any one person (or a few) other than whoever leads a particular meeting, and also prefer interacting and working with groups over a single person one-on-one when it comes to recovery - some of the additional reasons I'm interested in this.

Bekindalways

I have not heard anything about such a program but it really seems like such a thing should exist. I hope you find something fitting.

Aellyce

Since it seems like people here are not experienced with this, I will share a bit about what I've found so far. First of all, Recovery Dharma promotes abstinence as a solution, much like most of the stuff discussed here on SR. I attended a couple Recovery Dharma meetings and looked into the materials available at their website more. Feel exactly the same way I felt when I first started using SMART about two months ago: that I've found another great fit for me that will be useful for what I want and need right now. I think the Recovery Dharma book is concise and focused enough so it's appropriate for anyone even without any prior knowledge of Buddhism or interest in it for anything else other than recovery purposes, but can also be taken as a first step if someone wants to explore more about these topics, principles and practices.

I think the meetings might be quite good even for those who like the fellowship/meetings of AA and other 12 step programs, but have reservations about the program itself, how it is practiced, or just never connected with them to find it really helpful. My impression is that the Recovery Dharma meetings draw a lot from the meetings of 12 step programs and others: they are structured with one person leading and sometimes a few others helping to run them, volunteering opportunities, there are various types of meetings much like in AA, and also shares that are very similar to what I experienced in AA. The main difference is that it's a different program they work with. There are lots of meetings each day, both local (still available to everyone) and general, no need to even subscribe anywhere.

Recovery Dharma also has a form of one-on-one mentorship or peer support (so I was wrong about this in the earlier post) that they call a "wise friend" (not sure what it involves as I have not tried it), but it does not seem to be pushed at all or presented as an essential part of working the program, more like one option. The culture indeed seems quite democratic, tolerant of diversity and people using other programs as well (much like SMART), they don't market it as a holy grail or suggest any way of doing it is right or wrong - this kind of openness I especially appreciate.

I think it's worth checking out if someone is still looking for suitable program/meetings or just wants to try a new one. One of the most useful aspects for me so far is that I've always liked meditation and the right practice can be very helpful for me, but I often struggle with maintaining the disciple when I try to do it just on my own (much like my relationship with physical workouts). So the group, guided form and recovery focus gives me more motivation. They do many different kinds of guided meditations and also silent ones with the group, but not overwhelmingly long ones, and I think most meetings have some meditation and then shares or discussion.

DriGuy

This is a new one on me, but I love it. I think adopting one set of rules is self limiting. My own plan was cobbled together from my own personal experiences, experiences of successful others, and ideas that made sense to me from other sources than just 12 steps. I think my own plan is the best one for me. It goes deeper and covers more of my issues and doesn't emphasize what I don't need. I understand it fully and why I need it, and I confidently internalize it.

I'm not saying others should not adopt a ready made program and follow it to a "T", but I don't think that is best for everyone.

DriGuy

I would like to know more about your (and the program's) meditation. Meditation has different meanings for everyone, but what I sometimes call meditation, has been a huge part of my life, even before I quit drinking. Mine is introspection or taking stock of my feelings, and deciding on directions. It is aimed at self understanding and learning things about myself that aren't superficially apparent. It goes deeper than a fearless moral inventory, and is not limited to moral issues. In fact morality doesn't usually enter into it. Although it does often deal with ethical issues. I set time aside to do this when I'm dealing with an issue.

Does this sound familiar?

novips

Thanks for starting this thread and for all the responses so far. I learned some new things.

I'm one of those folks who believe: (1) there is such a thing as a "real alcoholic/addict", and (2) for that type, there is only one solution: the program of recovery as set forth in the Big Book of A.A. & A.A. meetings. It's always interesting to me when folks push back against this proposition as closed minded because open-mindedness should include staying open to the possibility that for some people A.A. is the only solution. Anyway, that's just my experience -- and I bow deeply in gratitude to all the methods that help people stay clean & sober. I also bow deeply in gratitude to all the avatars of the Buddha who led me to see the truth of my condition.

FWIW, I'm a big fan of Mooji's guided meditations as part of my daily 11th Step work (YouTube: "Mooji Guided Meditation"). Those meditations line right up with one of the Big Book's powerful definitions of sanity: "And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone - even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned.... We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected."

Please forgive me if this post is non-responsive. Thanks for letting me share.

Zencat

From my quick look at Recovery Dharma , looks cool. I use DBT. It has a meditation component to it.

For me 'clear mind' meditation is how I can turn my thinker off and get into the 'now'.

DriGuy

There's something like a similarity to what you and I do, but still differences. I turn off my "thinker" so that I can observe myself more objectively. A mind full of thoughts has a tendency to be distracting when searching for subtleties in self that can lead to valuable insights. I don't think of this as getting into the 'now', but it is a way to observe parts of the 'now' that I'm not clearly aware of in myself and would like to understand better.

I've solved a lot of problems this way, but what I've become aware of in more recent years is that I can also turn off my thinker when there is a problem I would be better off ignoring like a worry or a resentment. To me, it's like turning off the now. But you may see that as turning on the now. It could just be a matter of different perspectives.

RAL

Thanks for starting this thread. I also do SMART meetings and love them. They just make so much sense-I love the personal choice and behaviour aspects of SMART as well as the great tools they use which I can apply to all aspects of life.

Looking at Recovery Dharma it seems to align well with smart in empowerment and choice. I am going to ahve a good look into this too.

kateobr

I've also been putting together a recovery program and what I call my "toolbox" that works for me. I'm a very complex individual so I require a complex recovery plan. Lol. I attend a Recovery Dharma meeting almost every day. I also really enjoy the Refuge Recovery podcasts and meetings as well. Meditation is key for me which is why I love both of those organizations. I am almost 9 months sober and just started attending AA meetings online & am now working the steps and also going to therapy. I also go to the gym 6 days a week. The physical aspect of my recovery is very important to me. Eating clean foods, working out regularly and drinking a ton of water. That aspect is almost as important for me as meetings and therapy and working the steps. I've found things that work for me but am always open to new ideas as well. I just purchased an accupressure mat and have made it a part of my nightly routine and it has been great for stress & the tension I hold in my shoulders. So many great ideas and inspiring people in the recovery community these days. Sobriety definitely does not have to be boring that is for sure!

DriGuy

Boring is drinking night after night,waking up feeling disgusted and remorseful, promising that you won't get drunk again, but pouring the next drink as soon as you're home from work. Counselors would ask me why I drank, and I would half halfheartedly reply, "Because I get bored." But something inside me told me that was a lie. Yeah, I got bored when I drank, and I would often obsess on how bored I was.

I didn't plan for it or even wish for it, but 6 months or so into recovery, I realized I hadn't been bored once since I stopped drinking. Being bored is a bad thing we do to ourselves. OK, I get bored occasionally, but I know exactly what to do, and there's a long list of things you can do. I've smashed my boredom by doing a chore out in the garage that I'd been putting off for too long, and end up feeling good about it, even if it was a dirty job.

PinnacleOR

I’ve been to a Refuge Recovery meeting and found it quite lovely. Where I live we have both Recovery Dharma and Refuge Recovery meetings. There was a recital of some principles like AA, then a guided meditation, then sharing. There were candles lit and in this case the meeting was in a Zen temple. It was very serene and I really enjoyed it. We also have a few 11th step AA meetings here that start with 15 minutes of meditation. That’s also a great meeting. With so much online now it’s much easier to experiment.

There is a book called Refuge Recovery, which is like their Big Book. Worth a read if you’re interested in a non 12 step program that relies on similar principles. The reason for the split in Refuge Recovery and Recovery Dharma largely has to do with past controversies around the Author.

good luck.

Aellyce

Thanks everyone for the comments and sorry for lagging with a response. I'm glad to see that this thread has taken off because some of you find these types of approaches interesting. First, just would like to briefly say that I only brought up a comparison with 12 step meetings because I often read here on SR, and also hear in some recovery meetings I attend, that some people disagree with the 12 step programs and that repulses them from trying something (or an alternative) that might save their lives, which is too bad. I absolutely believe that finding any program that works as it was designed is the best thing that can happen to an addict who wants to recover - it makes things much easier if we don't need to tinker with it much. Just like a medication that really works at first trial vs. having to adjust doses and building a whole regimen of different meds. This happened to me with SMART regarding dealing with my alcohol cravings and I will be grateful forever. I never expected such an effective and fast improvement with something that seemed like an ocean constantly closing above me!

On the question about the RD program's meditation: I think the best way to answer this is to try a few meetings. I am also still beginning to explore, so would not volunteer as an expect describing how RD works What I have seen so far: they have a few different guided meditations that are used in various meetings. Earlier this week they shared a doc with the script of ~10 meditations that I was very happy to download. They all have the elements of mindfulness of breathing (as a way to learn to direct our attention), like most meditations worldwide I think, but then a variety of introspective exercises focusing on different things.

I personally got interested in meditation and Buddhism maybe ~20 years ago, originally as a part of exploring various philosophical and spiritual systems that I've done since my early teens. Drinking wasn't a problem back then. I figured meditation was very helpful and also enjoyable for me, but I needed to find a guide to learn from that was compatible with my thinking and expectations. This happened >10 years ago, when I discovered Alan Wallace - here is his website: https://www.alanwallace.org. He is a very well-known Buddhist teacher and scholar who has also been involved in related meditation and spiritual practices around the world. I read a few of his books and attended a group retreat with him also >10 years ago, and immensely enjoyed all of it, just clicked with me instantly. In fact, part of what prompted me seriously to finally take recovery truly seriously was an online retreat with Alan just over 2 months ago, which was focusing on mental health, I hope this is okay to post especially as it happened in the past:
https://www.shambhalamountain.org/pr...nd-well-being/

It was fantastic but, sadly, I missed part of it... guess why? I decided to get drunk. But the following weekend marked the start of my serious start with sobriety last November and luckily they made the recording of the retreat available, so I could revisit all of it sober during my first three sober days, which was wonderful and even relieved some of my guilt and shame. Alan will have a longer retreat later this year possibly in person (COVID permitting) that I might attend.

I learned many different meditations from Alan, including some that are not necessarily done silently sitting or lying down but during activities, e.g. while walking or eating. Virtually everything in life has opportunities to practice mindfulness and concentration and one idea is that when we do, the experiences become much richer as we more attentively participate in more aspects of it, using our senses more vividly etc. I think this is also good for addicts because we often have lost the ability to really enjoy normal experiences and the world around us, and find it dull relative to our addictive substance or behavior, especially in early sobriety (the latter is not my experience though).

I read the Refuge Recovery book in the past and currently reading the Dharma Recovery one. I find especially the latter a great piece of recovery literature - written very well, concisely explains things clearly probably even for people who know nothing about Buddhism and never had an addiction using modern interpretations. It also includes inquiries after chapters that can be used for introspection (I experienced doing this in a RD meeting as well with the group), and I am doing it now on my own in writing. I take my time to get into all of these inquiries instead of rushing through the book - I think it's a bit similar to how one would work through the 12 steps and I hear some people also use mentors for this in RD. I've learned from using SMART how helpful writing things down can be relative to only thinking or talking about them. So far I've mostly attended the morning "sitting" meetings, but plan to visit a lot more, including the book studies.

Finally, about introspection. Well, it would not be me if I didn't practice a lot of that in recovery as well. What I do differently now is I don't allow my mind to just get on that train randomly, anytime, and then whatever else I need to do will be distracted and procrastinated. I also just find my mind is much more quiet even after 2 months sober and I don't feel a compulsion to dissect everything all the time. I definitely enjoy the guided meditations that involve some kind of introspective exercise as well, but sometimes it can be too much, especially if we have not mastered basic elements of focus and attention regulation yet. That was my story in the past when I first engaged with Alan Wallace - he even pointed out at my first retreat that I got into one of the most advanced practices as "an elephant in the porcelain room", and I understood what he meant later. It is really good to learn and build it up step-by-step if we want to take the most out of it (again, maybe similar to 12 step work in this sense). Not saying that I am an advanced meditator, that is not the case by any means. But I'm doing it differently now and currently focusing on simpler practices rather than the most complex contemplations (however attractive they can be). I also simply understand the more complex ones better if I have some foundation. Recovery Dharma is very helpful even with that as it does not assume prior experience and is appropriate for any beginner, I think. Well, maybe some of the meditations more than others I generally enjoy structured, methodical learning (especially sober), so this is great with me.

Steely

Thanks for starting this thread Aellyce. I gained a lot from all responses.

I want to take up on mediation, don't know which school, but am convinced of its importance in helping achieve a measure of peace.

Appreciated DriGuy's post on "turning off" the thinking, when times are worrying. The case for me at the moment. My mind is doing a million miles a minute, but thankfully with no thoughts of drinking.

I know this is irrational, but sometimes think if I'm not worrying, I don't care enough. Sheee! Don't get me wrong, I'm don't sit around like a worry wart all of the time, but know I worry too much, and it never helps.

I'm going to set myself in train today to put the worry aside and practice my own form of mediation. Don't know any other way, yet. Make it up as I go along.

Its a start.

Thanks Aellyce. Thanks DriGuy.

Aellyce

Steely - I didn't elaborate much on this, but agree that what DriGuy and you mentioned are really key, especially for people who are prone to anxiety and overanalyzing, extensively worrying about things. I definitely put myself in this category and am very happy now to see how much all that has already improved even in my short sobriety so far, but do not believe this predisposition will just magically vanish for good or something. So developing a regular meditation practice that also involves planning and scheduling time and effort to mentally investigate things is an excellent strategy, I think. Learning to consciously regulate the mind and shift focus intentionally during the practice and honing the ability to "turn off" unwanted, excessive and unproductive thinking is part of every meditation approach, I believe. This was part of the reason I got interested in already 20 years ago, as I had the overthinking, overanalyzing tendency already very young and it interfered with things even before alcohol addiction and its effects came into the picture. My alcoholism halted my desire to develop this (or at least made it very inconsistent and inefficient), this is why I'm back into it now. I have zero doubt that it will make a big difference in my mental health and life satisfaction if I get into this seriously and develop a discipline, and I believe it will become automatically reinforcing, rewarding (I see that happening to many avid meditators), and even provide new forms of the fun intellectual stimulation that I like so much. The whole thing also feeds into the principles and goals that are part of Buddhist inspirations, but really any constructive effort to live a good life IMO. I personally never considered myself a Buddhist per se and doubt I will, but the whole philosophy fits so well with the experience of addiction, recovery, a desire to live with better morals, and a bunch of other things that just click with me naturally as important guiding values.

So yeah, I don't think the brain/mind is just a complex machine that does its own thing and we cannot really regulate it. And this may not be very popular here, but I also personally don't believe it's the best idea to just let feelings "be" and do their own thing anytime in sobriety because we numbed them or misunderstood them in addiction, just feel them intensely without investigating and controlling ... where does that lead, really? But it's possible I don't fully grasp those suggestions when people make them and haven't gone far enough into sobriety yet to really get it.

Anyway, part of meditation is also to just let the mind wonder, observe non-judgmentally, and don't tell ourselves any of it is wrong but don't grasp on it too much either, let thoughts and feelings come and go during that time. A couple of the RD meditations I attended focused on this a lot. The "trick" is the compartmentalizing IMO - setting time to meditate or do other self-care things. Do these in a more organized, structure manner (attending relevant meetings can help this I think) instead of randomly, uncontrolled, unlike engaging in active addiction where momentary desires and feelings took priority. Part of what's so empowering in a program like RD (and a few others), I think, is that we can truly experience that we are able to make those decisions and acts freely. They can help to give back a sense of autonomy that is usually damaged not only in addiction but in many other mental health conditions as well, including the most common ones like depression and anxiety.

Steely

Thanks Aellyce,

Practiced a little in my own way today. Seems a lot like Acceptance, and Letting go to me.

Standing in the now, or putting the Now aside if it's too distressing. Accepting that I do not have total control, and nor do I want it. Being in the Bliss. Zenout I take this to mean the untroubled, but aware mind. Idk. I am grasshopper.

All I strive for are ways and means to quiet my mind, and quit blaming myself for everything. I'm not that powerful, nor am I that important.

I'm liking quieting my mind tho. I'm liking the realisation that there are some things over which I have no control. To let go. To let god, buddha, the angel of mercy, handle it. I'm not that good. I'm grateful.

Strangely, when entering my own invented practice I was able to get a few things done in the house. Did the dishes. The bubble burst.

Aellyce

Yes, one good thing about mindfulness and meditation is that we can be quite creative with it. Even in the RD meetings I attend now, the guide provides a structure and basic focus but there are long silent phases in the practice that everyone is free to use as they wish. I really like these early morning meetings at 7am, it's something SMART does not provide much and I am very much a morning person. I have been feeling much more mentally hyper and agitated in the past week (I know I need to make an effort to write shorter posts, for example) and I expect it to continue for about 5 more weeks as I am wrapping up a very complex, long-term job and looking for a new home. I could have waited with both but they have to be done and there would not be any point in delaying them further and I know I will be very happy with the result in a few weeks.

Luckily the stress has not affected my drinking urges at all so far, if anything, it makes them less frequent. I briefly considered making a separate post about this stressful period, but then dumped the idea for the reason I mentioned earlier: I don't want to grasp on it even more by posting about it more and discussing it, that would just scatter and distract me. I can talk about it for two minutes in the meetings. Focusing on dealing with the tasks otherwise is much more productive for me, even emotionally. I also keep telling myself to just focus and work on all this and, before I notice, I'll be 3 months sober (something that I've never achieved before) and will have sorted out two other areas of my life that have been overdue for a while!

So these morning RD meetings are great to set a healthy mindset for the days. I also like that many people make an effort to relate their shares to the meditation we did or the reading afterward - it helps me focus my thinking further and use the meeting time better vs. the ones where everyone just talks about whatever is going on.

DriGuy

Sometimes it's good to sit and concentrate on not thinking about things you shouldn't think about. It is so easy to get caught up in crap you have no control over. I spent the last two days trapped in vicious circle of anger about my state's bungling of the vaccination rollout. I can't fix it, but I ended up getting unnecessarily terse with a woman on the phone, almost as she was responsible for her Health District's policies. And I could feel myself losing control too. But I didn't stop myself.

I went to bed last night feeling ashamed of myself, because the bottom line is that I know better, and I indulged myself in a pointless behavior that I thought I had abandoned years ago. But I let myself get caught up in it, and I'm ashamed. Yeah, OK, I can forgive myself... well kind of. Maybe I should be proud of myself for at least recognizing my own mistake/failure, and yes I have done that, but it will take awhile for the guilt to subside as I tell myself, "Don't do that again for at least the next 10 years, you idiot."

I get off on being proud of myself as narcissistic as that may sound. But the last two days was not the way to do it. Should I get up brush myself off and just go on? Yeah, I think so. I've made a lot of progress in sobriety, but sometimes that's just not enough. There's always more to do. MINDFULNESS! Think about it. It's not my favorite word, because it's so in vogue and trendy sounding, but that doesn't mean it's not important.