Recovery Dharma
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
I've been going to RD meetings since posting this thread and it's been a great addition to my recovery regime. I still mostly attend the morning "sitting groups" (meditation + sharing) because I have a lot on my plate for a few more weeks and, knowing myself, every new thing I find interesting gets me into a lot of thinking and preoccupation - will get into that more once I'm done wrapping up my job in March, want to keep my focus without more distractions. But the morning meditations are actually what I wanted primarily and find it quite helpful. The meetings are either at 7am or 9am, depending on the day. So I combine it with my workout sessions - exercise before when meeting is at 9 and after when meeting is at 7. Won't lie, I don't do these things (or both) every single day, but on average more than half of the days, and it's such a great, motivating boost to start a day especially as I still need to work on many things I no longer find very interesting and engaging, to finish my job well.
I also wanted to share a soft of introspective meditative exercise that I heard of not in RD but in a SMART meeting. It's about getting to know and engaging our destructive forces inside - a great application to the AV in my view. Very often we just encourage ignoring and dissociating it, but a lot of psychology suggests it may not be the best approach in the longer run, especially for those seeking holistic improvement and integrity, like myself. I'll share the exercise in a separate post below.
I also wanted to share a soft of introspective meditative exercise that I heard of not in RD but in a SMART meeting. It's about getting to know and engaging our destructive forces inside - a great application to the AV in my view. Very often we just encourage ignoring and dissociating it, but a lot of psychology suggests it may not be the best approach in the longer run, especially for those seeking holistic improvement and integrity, like myself. I'll share the exercise in a separate post below.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Excerpt from a website - I see in this a blend of introspection, meditative exercise and some ideas and practices from psychology and psychotherapy such as Gestalt, Internal Family Systems, Jungian Analysis, as well as a hint of shamanism. Long but I think quite interesting, probably especially for people who are good at working with fantasy and mental visualization - I like creative things like that and it's definitely a better use of my imagination than making up stories and telling them as real while getting wasted, haha. Haven't tried it yet, I would probably want to do it as a meditation session, but it's quite complex and might be better guided. Perhaps I'll record myself saying the script so my own voice can be my guide - how is that for a twist on working with the AV directly? 
If I had a therapist, would perhaps ask them to do this with me in a session and then discuss the experience.
***
What is a Demon?
“With a loving mind, cherish more than a child
The hostile gods and demons of apparent existence,
And tenderly surround yourself with them”
— Machig Labdrön (1055 – 1145)
Demons in the sense that we are using the word are not ghosts, goblins, or minions of Satan. When Machig Labdrön was directly asked by her son Tönyon Samdrup to define demons, she replied this way: “That which is called a demon is not some great black thing that petrifies whoever sees it. A demon is anything that obstructs the achievement of freedom…. There is no greater devil than this fixation to a self. So until this ego-fixation is cut off, all the demons wait with open mouths. For this reason, you need to exert yourself at a skillful method to sever the devil of ego-fixation.” Machig’s understanding of demons was remarkably sophisticated. She asked: What is the real evil? What are the real demons? Isn’t egocentricity, whether on a personal or collective level, the real demon?
Fears, obsessions, addictions are all parts of ourselves that have become “demonic” by being split off, disowned, and battled against. When you try to flee from your demons, they pursue you. By struggling with them, you become weaker and may even succumb to them completely. For example, someone who struggles with the demon of alcoholism may eventually die of liver disease. Someone who struggles with the demon of depression may eventually commit suicide. We need to recognize the futility of this struggle and begin to accept and even love those parts of ourselves.
An Example of a Demon and the Demon Process
Example:
Kate had very critical parents who, indirectly, were always telling her she was not worthy of love. Not surprisingly, she began to hate herself. Although she grew up and married, eventually her husband left her. Kate couldn’t keep a job. She felt deeply unworthy of love and acted self-destructively. Her inner voice constantly told her she was not good enough, that she was a loser, and that she should just give up on life. This was her “self-hate demon,” which was running rampant. Although she remained unaware of how much it influenced her, it disrupted everything. The voice did, however, provide a kind of negative security, familiar but toxic. Here, in brief, is how Kate dealt with her self-hate demon.
Step 1. Find the Demon
After generating an altruistic intention for her practice, Kate closes her eyes and sinks into awareness of her body, trying to locate the feeling of worthlessness and self-loathing. She remembers an intense attack of negativity that triggered her self-loathing. After being fired from a promising job, she had called her mother hoping for sympathy, but instead of supporting Kate, her mother blamed her for losing the job. Filled with anger and self-hatred, Kate had cut her arms for the first time. Recalling this event she suddenly feels an intense sensation in her heart. She experiences it as cold, blue-purple, and lacerating, like a shard of shattered glass. It’s piercing and painful. Her heart aches.
Step 2. Personify the Demon and Find Out What It Needs
Kate now imagines the embodiment of this feeling. It takes the form of a tall, thin male figure. He’s ice blue and his bony arms end in claws. He’s looking at her with disdain. His teeth are pointed and yellow, and his mouth opens as if he’s going to bite her. His eyes are small and fierce. When she takes a second look, she notes that the surface of his body is covered with fine, spiky blue thorns.
Kate asks him aloud:
“What do you want?”
“What do you need?”
“How will you feel if you get what you need?”
Step 3. Become the Demon
Before he answers, she changes places with him, occupying the chair opposite her own, and takes a moment to become the demon, to live in his skin. She pauses a moment to share what he is feeling before answering the question. Inhabiting his body she realizes that he’s incredibly bitter, and he feels threatened and battered himself. To the question, “What do you want?” he replies, “I want you to suffer, because you are so worthless and stupid.”
To the question, “What do you really need?” he answers, “I need you to be with me, and to stop trying to escape from me. I need you to accept me and love me.”
To the question, “How will you feel if you get what you need?” he answers: “I’ll be able to relax. I’ll feel love.”
Step 4. Feed the Demon and Meet the Ally
Returning to her original seat Kate sees the self-hate demon in front of her. She now knows she needs to feed him love. She imagines her body melting into an infinite ocean of loving nectar, and then imagines that the demon takes this nectar in through every pore of his icy blue body all at once.
As he absorbs the nectar, the demon’s appearance changes. His body softens and his color fades. After a while he turns into a gray horse with soft nostrils and gentle, dark eyes. Kate asks the gray horse if it is the ally. When it nods its noble head she asks how he will help her in the future, how he will protect her, and what pledge he will make to her. She then changes places with him, and becomes the gray horse. She hears herself reply, “I will carry you to places you haven’t been before, where you can’t go alone. I will lend you my strength to do things in the world. When things are difficult, come see me and rest your head on my neck. I will protect you by giving you strength in yourself.”
Kate returns to her seat and, gazing at the horse in front of her, receives his strength and takes in his pledge. As it flows into her, she feels joy rising inside her heart. Eventually the horse itself dissolves into her completely, and she feels a vast surge of strength within herself. Then she and the ally both dissolve into emptiness.
Step 5. Rest
At this point Kate feels peace. She rests, allowing herself to relax in that state of open awareness. She doesn’t need to “practice” the fifth step, even though she doesn’t normally meditate. This is not a state that she thinks herself into; it is the natural spaciousness that comes with the dissolution of the demon and the integration of the ally.
An Abbreviated Version of the Five Steps
Nine Relaxation Breaths
Take nine deep relaxation breaths with long exhalations: for the first three breaths, breathe in and bring the breath to any tension in the body releasing it with the exhalation. For the second three breaths, inhale into any emotional tension, feel where you hold it in your body and release it with the exhalation. And lastly, breathe into any mental tension. Feel where you hold nervousness, worries or mental blockages in your body and release them with the exhalation
Motivation: Generate a heartfelt motivation to practice for the benefit of one’s self and all beings.
Step 1. Find the Demon
Decide which demon you are going to work with.
Locate where you hold it most strongly in your body.
Become aware of the qualities of the sensations in your body including:
· color
· texture
· temperature
Intensify the sensation.
Step 2. Personify the Demon and Find Out What It Needs
Personify this sensation as a figure with arms, legs, eyes and see it facing you. If an inanimate object appears imagine what it would look like if it were personified as some kind of being.
Notice:
· color
· skin surface
· gender
· size
· its character
· its emotional state
· the look in its eyes
Notice something about the demon you didn’t see before.
Ask the demon what it wants.
What is it that you want from me?
Ask the demon what it needs.
What need to you have that is behind what you want?
Ask the demon how it would feel if it gets what it needs.
If you get what you need how will you feel?
Having asked the questions, immediately change places with the demon.
Step 3. Become the Demon
Face the chair or cushion you were seated on and become the demon, allowing yourself a little time to “sit in its shoes.”
Notice how your normal self looks from the demon’s point of view.
Now answer these three questions:
What I want from you is…
What I need from you is…
What I would feel if I got what I need is…
Step 4. Feed the Demon and Meet the Ally
Feed the Demon
Come back to your original position. Take a moment to settle in and see the demon in front of you.
Dissolve your body into nectar that has the quality of the feeling that the demon would have if its need was satisfied (this is the answer to the third question in step 3.
Feed the demon to its complete satisfaction, imagining the nectar entering the demon any way you wish. Keep feeding until complete satisfaction is reached (if the demon seems to be insatiable, then imagine how it would look if it were completely satisfied). At this point you can go directly to step 5 or meet your ally.
Meet the ally
If there is a being present in place of the demon when you end the fourth step, ask this being if it is the ally. If it is not, invite an ally to appear. If the demon has dissolved completely then simply invite an ally to appear.
Notice all the details of the ally: its color, its size, and the look in its eyes.
Ask it one or all of these questions:
How will you help me?
How will you protect me?
What pledge do you make to me?
Change places, becoming the ally, and answer the question(s) above.
Return to your original position, then take a moment and feel the help and protection coming from the ally to you and then imagine the ally is dissolving into you. You and the ally dissolve into emptiness, which naturally takes you to the fifth step.
Step 5. Rest
Rest in the state that is present when the ally dissolves into you and you dissolve into emptiness. Let your mind relax without creating any particular experience. Rest as long as you like without filling the space, trying not to make anything happen or rushing to finish.
If I had a therapist, would perhaps ask them to do this with me in a session and then discuss the experience.***
What is a Demon?
“With a loving mind, cherish more than a child
The hostile gods and demons of apparent existence,
And tenderly surround yourself with them”
— Machig Labdrön (1055 – 1145)
Demons in the sense that we are using the word are not ghosts, goblins, or minions of Satan. When Machig Labdrön was directly asked by her son Tönyon Samdrup to define demons, she replied this way: “That which is called a demon is not some great black thing that petrifies whoever sees it. A demon is anything that obstructs the achievement of freedom…. There is no greater devil than this fixation to a self. So until this ego-fixation is cut off, all the demons wait with open mouths. For this reason, you need to exert yourself at a skillful method to sever the devil of ego-fixation.” Machig’s understanding of demons was remarkably sophisticated. She asked: What is the real evil? What are the real demons? Isn’t egocentricity, whether on a personal or collective level, the real demon?
Fears, obsessions, addictions are all parts of ourselves that have become “demonic” by being split off, disowned, and battled against. When you try to flee from your demons, they pursue you. By struggling with them, you become weaker and may even succumb to them completely. For example, someone who struggles with the demon of alcoholism may eventually die of liver disease. Someone who struggles with the demon of depression may eventually commit suicide. We need to recognize the futility of this struggle and begin to accept and even love those parts of ourselves.
An Example of a Demon and the Demon Process
Example:
Kate had very critical parents who, indirectly, were always telling her she was not worthy of love. Not surprisingly, she began to hate herself. Although she grew up and married, eventually her husband left her. Kate couldn’t keep a job. She felt deeply unworthy of love and acted self-destructively. Her inner voice constantly told her she was not good enough, that she was a loser, and that she should just give up on life. This was her “self-hate demon,” which was running rampant. Although she remained unaware of how much it influenced her, it disrupted everything. The voice did, however, provide a kind of negative security, familiar but toxic. Here, in brief, is how Kate dealt with her self-hate demon.
Step 1. Find the Demon
After generating an altruistic intention for her practice, Kate closes her eyes and sinks into awareness of her body, trying to locate the feeling of worthlessness and self-loathing. She remembers an intense attack of negativity that triggered her self-loathing. After being fired from a promising job, she had called her mother hoping for sympathy, but instead of supporting Kate, her mother blamed her for losing the job. Filled with anger and self-hatred, Kate had cut her arms for the first time. Recalling this event she suddenly feels an intense sensation in her heart. She experiences it as cold, blue-purple, and lacerating, like a shard of shattered glass. It’s piercing and painful. Her heart aches.
Step 2. Personify the Demon and Find Out What It Needs
Kate now imagines the embodiment of this feeling. It takes the form of a tall, thin male figure. He’s ice blue and his bony arms end in claws. He’s looking at her with disdain. His teeth are pointed and yellow, and his mouth opens as if he’s going to bite her. His eyes are small and fierce. When she takes a second look, she notes that the surface of his body is covered with fine, spiky blue thorns.
Kate asks him aloud:
“What do you want?”
“What do you need?”
“How will you feel if you get what you need?”
Step 3. Become the Demon
Before he answers, she changes places with him, occupying the chair opposite her own, and takes a moment to become the demon, to live in his skin. She pauses a moment to share what he is feeling before answering the question. Inhabiting his body she realizes that he’s incredibly bitter, and he feels threatened and battered himself. To the question, “What do you want?” he replies, “I want you to suffer, because you are so worthless and stupid.”
To the question, “What do you really need?” he answers, “I need you to be with me, and to stop trying to escape from me. I need you to accept me and love me.”
To the question, “How will you feel if you get what you need?” he answers: “I’ll be able to relax. I’ll feel love.”
Step 4. Feed the Demon and Meet the Ally
Returning to her original seat Kate sees the self-hate demon in front of her. She now knows she needs to feed him love. She imagines her body melting into an infinite ocean of loving nectar, and then imagines that the demon takes this nectar in through every pore of his icy blue body all at once.
As he absorbs the nectar, the demon’s appearance changes. His body softens and his color fades. After a while he turns into a gray horse with soft nostrils and gentle, dark eyes. Kate asks the gray horse if it is the ally. When it nods its noble head she asks how he will help her in the future, how he will protect her, and what pledge he will make to her. She then changes places with him, and becomes the gray horse. She hears herself reply, “I will carry you to places you haven’t been before, where you can’t go alone. I will lend you my strength to do things in the world. When things are difficult, come see me and rest your head on my neck. I will protect you by giving you strength in yourself.”
Kate returns to her seat and, gazing at the horse in front of her, receives his strength and takes in his pledge. As it flows into her, she feels joy rising inside her heart. Eventually the horse itself dissolves into her completely, and she feels a vast surge of strength within herself. Then she and the ally both dissolve into emptiness.
Step 5. Rest
At this point Kate feels peace. She rests, allowing herself to relax in that state of open awareness. She doesn’t need to “practice” the fifth step, even though she doesn’t normally meditate. This is not a state that she thinks herself into; it is the natural spaciousness that comes with the dissolution of the demon and the integration of the ally.
An Abbreviated Version of the Five Steps
Nine Relaxation Breaths
Take nine deep relaxation breaths with long exhalations: for the first three breaths, breathe in and bring the breath to any tension in the body releasing it with the exhalation. For the second three breaths, inhale into any emotional tension, feel where you hold it in your body and release it with the exhalation. And lastly, breathe into any mental tension. Feel where you hold nervousness, worries or mental blockages in your body and release them with the exhalation
Motivation: Generate a heartfelt motivation to practice for the benefit of one’s self and all beings.
Step 1. Find the Demon
Decide which demon you are going to work with.
Locate where you hold it most strongly in your body.
Become aware of the qualities of the sensations in your body including:
· color
· texture
· temperature
Intensify the sensation.
Step 2. Personify the Demon and Find Out What It Needs
Personify this sensation as a figure with arms, legs, eyes and see it facing you. If an inanimate object appears imagine what it would look like if it were personified as some kind of being.
Notice:
· color
· skin surface
· gender
· size
· its character
· its emotional state
· the look in its eyes
Notice something about the demon you didn’t see before.
Ask the demon what it wants.
What is it that you want from me?
Ask the demon what it needs.
What need to you have that is behind what you want?
Ask the demon how it would feel if it gets what it needs.
If you get what you need how will you feel?
Having asked the questions, immediately change places with the demon.
Step 3. Become the Demon
Face the chair or cushion you were seated on and become the demon, allowing yourself a little time to “sit in its shoes.”
Notice how your normal self looks from the demon’s point of view.
Now answer these three questions:
What I want from you is…
What I need from you is…
What I would feel if I got what I need is…
Step 4. Feed the Demon and Meet the Ally
Feed the Demon
Come back to your original position. Take a moment to settle in and see the demon in front of you.
Dissolve your body into nectar that has the quality of the feeling that the demon would have if its need was satisfied (this is the answer to the third question in step 3.
Feed the demon to its complete satisfaction, imagining the nectar entering the demon any way you wish. Keep feeding until complete satisfaction is reached (if the demon seems to be insatiable, then imagine how it would look if it were completely satisfied). At this point you can go directly to step 5 or meet your ally.
Meet the ally
If there is a being present in place of the demon when you end the fourth step, ask this being if it is the ally. If it is not, invite an ally to appear. If the demon has dissolved completely then simply invite an ally to appear.
Notice all the details of the ally: its color, its size, and the look in its eyes.
Ask it one or all of these questions:
How will you help me?
How will you protect me?
What pledge do you make to me?
Change places, becoming the ally, and answer the question(s) above.
Return to your original position, then take a moment and feel the help and protection coming from the ally to you and then imagine the ally is dissolving into you. You and the ally dissolve into emptiness, which naturally takes you to the fifth step.
Step 5. Rest
Rest in the state that is present when the ally dissolves into you and you dissolve into emptiness. Let your mind relax without creating any particular experience. Rest as long as you like without filling the space, trying not to make anything happen or rushing to finish.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,442
I don't want to remove all that - its good - but is that your own work or from somewhere Aellyce? If it's from somewhere it probably needs a citation (not a link if its a commercial website).
D
D
Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 5,169
Years ago, before drinking became the problem that it did, my life was in a mess. At the time, I would have simply described it as being at my end of my wits. I had driven my car up to Alaska, just to get as far away from my troubles as I could, but my troubles came along with me. <surprise> I stopped at a store/gas station at some intersection out in the middle of nowhere. I think this may have been the only building within a 50 mile radius, but it was long ago, so I may not remember it right.
Inside, there was one of those revolving stands with wire pockets that hold a random selection paper back books, and I was turning the stand around looking for something to read when my eye caught one of those self help books. This one was titled Psycho Cybernetics, and was written by some self help guy I had never heard of before or since. I read the jacket and thought this might be something that could help at this particular time in my life.
I started reading it in my car that night, and it described some unique meditation exercises combined with mental imaging to relax and supposedly set you in a direction of self hypnosis, not like a deep trance from a magician, but something to relax and help open your mind a bit for personal exploration. The above descriptions in the OP, made me think about this book, especially in confronting your demons.
It was only similar to the above in some ways, but with many differences too. That very night while doing some of the exercises it directed me to a major insight that did change my life. It wasn't something so dramatic as "Now I have arrived," but it definitely started me on my way. And I did make some major changes right away, that sent me down a better path. The book became tattered and in my possession for years, and finally got lost or something. I had it filled with underlines and margin notes, and the cover was still hanging on by a thread when I last saw it.
In a way it was kind of like new age woo, and I can understand people would see it that way with the self hypnosis part in it, but that part was integral to the process and helped me a lot. I still had much to learn, however. <learning never stops> And my introduction to my alcoholism still lay in wait. I had yet to deal with that, but when I entered recovery, I at least had a few tools I could use to help me already in my box.
It was an unusually timely book to happen upon in the most unlikely place, just when I needed it most.
Inside, there was one of those revolving stands with wire pockets that hold a random selection paper back books, and I was turning the stand around looking for something to read when my eye caught one of those self help books. This one was titled Psycho Cybernetics, and was written by some self help guy I had never heard of before or since. I read the jacket and thought this might be something that could help at this particular time in my life.
I started reading it in my car that night, and it described some unique meditation exercises combined with mental imaging to relax and supposedly set you in a direction of self hypnosis, not like a deep trance from a magician, but something to relax and help open your mind a bit for personal exploration. The above descriptions in the OP, made me think about this book, especially in confronting your demons.
It was only similar to the above in some ways, but with many differences too. That very night while doing some of the exercises it directed me to a major insight that did change my life. It wasn't something so dramatic as "Now I have arrived," but it definitely started me on my way. And I did make some major changes right away, that sent me down a better path. The book became tattered and in my possession for years, and finally got lost or something. I had it filled with underlines and margin notes, and the cover was still hanging on by a thread when I last saw it.
In a way it was kind of like new age woo, and I can understand people would see it that way with the self hypnosis part in it, but that part was integral to the process and helped me a lot. I still had much to learn, however. <learning never stops> And my introduction to my alcoholism still lay in wait. I had yet to deal with that, but when I entered recovery, I at least had a few tools I could use to help me already in my box.
It was an unusually timely book to happen upon in the most unlikely place, just when I needed it most.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 5,169
Ha! I just googled that book and it came up before I even finished typing. I don't know if it's still in print as it's probably 50 years old, and the books I got directed to were all used. I did not put in a link. I'm not trying to sell anything. I just wanted to tell that story.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Originally Posted by Dee74 
I don't want to remove all that - its good - but is that your own work or from somewhere Aellyce? If it's from somewhere it probably needs a citation (not a link if its a commercial website).D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
DriGuy - thanks for sharing that story. I am not generally much into "new age woo", but sometimes look at stuff like that out of curiosity. This demon thing I posted does not even have that, just uses analogies to help identify with the content better. I rarely see any reason to reject anything before I know better what it is and have my own opinion about whether it's interesting/useful for me or not. I don't see meditation, mental visualization, any psychological exploration as magic or woo though, and sometimes one can just take what's helpful and leave the rest - much like with recovery programs. I think hypnosis is often misunderstood (in part because it's used in fiction or sometimes marketed in the wrong way) - it's pretty much just forms of guided relaxation exercises and based on the fact that the brain can be more receptive to information and experience in certain states. The guided meditation exercises I like the best usually involve a lot of mental visualization and trying to accomplish something (at least realizations) in addition to the basic relaxation and mindfulness techniques. It's just that you need to know how to do both - this is what I wrote about earlier on this thread, for example when I went to a retreat that had the most advanced exercises and I had no basic training. Still interesting and can be useful, but it won't be the same as doing it in a more receptive state of mind, because we know how to achieve that with more basic techniques.
My favorite Buddhist scholar and meditation teacher is involved in a lot of scientific research on meditation and how it can be used to improve well-being and mental health. But of course they also get into the more esoteric (not yet proven by science) aspects of consciousness, but even that is not alien to western science these days as people speculate and theorize so much about the unknown. It's the best of both worlds and a kind of spiritual approach I really like, especially because it's embedded in a value system that resonates with me naturally.
My favorite Buddhist scholar and meditation teacher is involved in a lot of scientific research on meditation and how it can be used to improve well-being and mental health. But of course they also get into the more esoteric (not yet proven by science) aspects of consciousness, but even that is not alien to western science these days as people speculate and theorize so much about the unknown. It's the best of both worlds and a kind of spiritual approach I really like, especially because it's embedded in a value system that resonates with me naturally.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
