The Fight
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Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 277
The Fight
I wanted to share a thought and some feelings I’ve been having these past few days that I think show why this time is the elusive “it” for me and I hoped to get some thoughts regarding this.
I’m so tired of fighting; tired of fighting the AV, tired of the constant war going on in my mind. The thoughts arise, whispered to me by the AV, and my inner, logical brain trying to reason, argue, explain to it why I shouldn’t drink. I’m not fighting it anymore, I’ve given up. I’m too tired. So, so tired. And so, for the first time, I’ve disengaged from the fight, and I’ve shaken my head and I’ve said a simple “no”. Although the fight goes on in my mind, when the AV tries to seduce me with romantic thoughts about drinking, or about how bored I’ll be without drinking, or many other ways it tries to manipulate me into drinking, I tell it a simple no. That’s it. No fight. No war. No drama. Just “no”. I quit. I won’t fight anymore. I’ve set a boundary. If the AV can’t respect the boundary (which it never will), I will say, again and again, that no, you can’t have what you want. No.
Is this my version of the “surrender” that people describe? Or is this something else? I’ve become incredibly aware of the manipulation techniques, and I’ve found myself saying even out loud “ha! Nice try. Still no”. The thing is so sneaky and so wicked, and it’s never heard no before. I don’t know why it all feels so different this time. It’s as though by giving up, I’ve found the key. I feel so much lighter; it was exhausting to fight inside my own head all the time. “No”, when meant, is very powerful.
I’m sorry if this is rambling, I just wanted to document this thought and also to get some opinions. Thanks for listening!
I’m so tired of fighting; tired of fighting the AV, tired of the constant war going on in my mind. The thoughts arise, whispered to me by the AV, and my inner, logical brain trying to reason, argue, explain to it why I shouldn’t drink. I’m not fighting it anymore, I’ve given up. I’m too tired. So, so tired. And so, for the first time, I’ve disengaged from the fight, and I’ve shaken my head and I’ve said a simple “no”. Although the fight goes on in my mind, when the AV tries to seduce me with romantic thoughts about drinking, or about how bored I’ll be without drinking, or many other ways it tries to manipulate me into drinking, I tell it a simple no. That’s it. No fight. No war. No drama. Just “no”. I quit. I won’t fight anymore. I’ve set a boundary. If the AV can’t respect the boundary (which it never will), I will say, again and again, that no, you can’t have what you want. No.
Is this my version of the “surrender” that people describe? Or is this something else? I’ve become incredibly aware of the manipulation techniques, and I’ve found myself saying even out loud “ha! Nice try. Still no”. The thing is so sneaky and so wicked, and it’s never heard no before. I don’t know why it all feels so different this time. It’s as though by giving up, I’ve found the key. I feel so much lighter; it was exhausting to fight inside my own head all the time. “No”, when meant, is very powerful.
I’m sorry if this is rambling, I just wanted to document this thought and also to get some opinions. Thanks for listening!
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NSW - Australia
Posts: 14,584
Sweet surrender.
Funny how I thought I would be bored without alcohol. When I think about it I "entertained" myself, avoided myself with alcohol. The "good times". I was a very boring person.
Sobriety is so less boring when we really get stuck into it.
Grateful, forever.
Funny how I thought I would be bored without alcohol. When I think about it I "entertained" myself, avoided myself with alcohol. The "good times". I was a very boring person.
Sobriety is so less boring when we really get stuck into it.
Grateful, forever.
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Sonoran Desert & Southeast Asia
Posts: 6,561
Great post. I don't think it's "surrender" in the traditional sense of admitting you are poweless against alcohol - it's actually owning your problem, and the solution. I did the same thing before when I successfully quit for more than 3 years - when the AV would start suggesting a drink I shut it down immediately with "Not an option". Basically, I told it to "eff-off".
I believe if you start to debate your AV you have given it legitimacy - a seat at the table so to speak, and in many cases it will win the debate. Better to do what you're doing - just shut it down. The other advantage of this approach, as you say, is it takes less energy and becomes a reflexive response. After awhile it will be automatic.
I believe if you start to debate your AV you have given it legitimacy - a seat at the table so to speak, and in many cases it will win the debate. Better to do what you're doing - just shut it down. The other advantage of this approach, as you say, is it takes less energy and becomes a reflexive response. After awhile it will be automatic.
Hangovers Suck!
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southeastern U.S.
Posts: 176
Originally Posted by advbike 
Great post. I don't think it's "surrender" in the traditional sense of admitting you are poweless against alcohol - it's actually owning your problem, and the solution. I did the same thing before when I successfully quit for more than 3 years - when the AV would start suggesting a drink I shut it down immediately with "Not an option". Basically, I told it to "eff-off".
I believe if you start to debate your AV you have given it legitimacy - a seat at the table so to speak, and in many cases it will win the debate. Better to do what you're doing - just shut it down. The other advantage of this approach, as you say, is it takes less energy and becomes a reflexive response. After awhile it will be automatic.
I believe if you start to debate your AV you have given it legitimacy - a seat at the table so to speak, and in many cases it will win the debate. Better to do what you're doing - just shut it down. The other advantage of this approach, as you say, is it takes less energy and becomes a reflexive response. After awhile it will be automatic.
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Join Date: May 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 3,937
If you want to think of it as surrender, there’s nothing wrong with that.
I hope this isn’t too crude an analogy so I’ll make it a bit more polite
Alcohol had me by the “short and curlies”, and we all know how painful that is. Come beer o’clock every evening, I felt that same pain. When I stopped drinking, the hand of alcohol started to loosen its grip, and it started to hurt less. Nowadays, alcohol still has a hand very gently holding on, but its grip isn’t noticeable. It knows it can reapply that grip at any time. It’s like a big bully in the school playground waiting for me to cross his path and smirking because I’m keeping my distance.
Think of it as running away bravely.
And as you said earlier, it’s all a bit boring now with lockdowns, etc, but you really need to fill your hitherto drinking time with something else. Learn a language, buy an airfix kit, etc
I hope this isn’t too crude an analogy so I’ll make it a bit more polite
Alcohol had me by the “short and curlies”, and we all know how painful that is. Come beer o’clock every evening, I felt that same pain. When I stopped drinking, the hand of alcohol started to loosen its grip, and it started to hurt less. Nowadays, alcohol still has a hand very gently holding on, but its grip isn’t noticeable. It knows it can reapply that grip at any time. It’s like a big bully in the school playground waiting for me to cross his path and smirking because I’m keeping my distance.
Think of it as running away bravely.
And as you said earlier, it’s all a bit boring now with lockdowns, etc, but you really need to fill your hitherto drinking time with something else. Learn a language, buy an airfix kit, etc
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,408
Great insight. I will keep this in mind.
If you've had any experience with emotional abusers like narcissists and/or psychopaths they tend to relish a fight because it means they still have you in their game. For every reason you give, they have 2 reasons why you're wrong. Saying No doesn't give them the ammunition for the fight. I can't think of a better example of an abuser than the AV.
If you've had any experience with emotional abusers like narcissists and/or psychopaths they tend to relish a fight because it means they still have you in their game. For every reason you give, they have 2 reasons why you're wrong. Saying No doesn't give them the ammunition for the fight. I can't think of a better example of an abuser than the AV.
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Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 271
That's exactly what surrender was for me. And I think that's what step one means when it says "powerless." It doesn't mean we're powerless people, just that alcohol is deadly for us. It's literally a disease to which we have no immunity. Like being powerless against smallpox, and there's no vaccine. That's not weak, it's just a matter of fact.
That's how I see it, anyway.
That's how I see it, anyway.
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,499
I'm a very independent person who is used to leaning on no-one to look after myself or get stuff done. If there has been a problem in my life, I have often felt it was up to me to sort it out. I usually refuse help or go out of my way to appear like I don't need help.
I like the term 'surrender' for what it made me do, which is drop the pretence. To stop pretending I was perfect, and stop pretending I was coping. I wasn't coping and I had a huge ugly problem.
In my version of 'surrender', the fight actually became easier because I wasn't handicapping myself with lies and denial. I could equip myself with the proper weapons because surrender to the truth allowed me to fight the real enemy, alcoholism. Before that I had been fighting the truth.
So I surrendered to the truth and began the right fight.
I like the term 'surrender' for what it made me do, which is drop the pretence. To stop pretending I was perfect, and stop pretending I was coping. I wasn't coping and I had a huge ugly problem.
In my version of 'surrender', the fight actually became easier because I wasn't handicapping myself with lies and denial. I could equip myself with the proper weapons because surrender to the truth allowed me to fight the real enemy, alcoholism. Before that I had been fighting the truth.
So I surrendered to the truth and began the right fight.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
yes, my surrender was like that. drop the fight absolutely.
greatly liberating!
so much freedom once we drop the engagement.
you might find the AVRT threads interesting and of use.
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ed-long-4.html (AVRT Explained (long))
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...iscussion.html (Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion)
greatly liberating!
so much freedom once we drop the engagement.
you might find the AVRT threads interesting and of use.
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ed-long-4.html (AVRT Explained (long))
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...iscussion.html (Addictive Voice Recognition Technique (AVRT) Discussion)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 277
It’s great to read everyone’s input - it’s threads like these that I realise that although as alcoholics we all share the same common enemy and roughly the same approach works for us all, we are all still very much individually minded people with our own thoughts, experiences and mechanisms. Sometimes I tend to forget that I’m a “person”, as when I’m drinking I sometimes feel like I’m more of a receptacle for booze than a person. I’m going to keep saying this as it’s transforming me mentally, but I tell myself each day and with every new doubt “I am worthy. I am enough”.
A few have picked up on the narcissist/abusive element of alcoholism and it’s so true; only this narcissist resides within us and as someone pointed out, arguing with it gives it legitimacy, and then allows the person (or in this case, the AV) to gaslight or manipulate the situation to their own ends.
My therapist said something to me a few weeks back that also resonated strongly with me; I said that I felt that were “two me’s” living in my head that were constantly at war, and she told me, in the gentlest possible way, that although it felt that way and of course I wanted to believe the “real me” was the all sweetness and light version, in fact all that goes on in my head, all of it makes “me” as a whole. There is no invading demon, no possession, just multiple facets of a person. That helped me a lot because when I accepted that and realised it was true, I knew I could no longer run away because no matter where I went, I’d still be me. I am responsible for the negative behaviours as well as the positives, so with that in mind, how I choose to engage both my mind and in my daily life are up to me. The AV isn’t an invader; it’s a very real part of my own genetic make-up and, now knowing that, I could choose not to engage that part of my mind and instead build resilience and activate the other more positive aspects of my mind and personality. The rational, adult me kept entertaining the petulant, childlike voice of the AV; but I know now that if you always give in to the naughty child, that child will never be happy, enough is never enough, and all parties concerned will be miserable and exhausted.
Anyway, again, thanks to all, I find all of your insights so helpful and fascinating, in fact.
A few have picked up on the narcissist/abusive element of alcoholism and it’s so true; only this narcissist resides within us and as someone pointed out, arguing with it gives it legitimacy, and then allows the person (or in this case, the AV) to gaslight or manipulate the situation to their own ends.
My therapist said something to me a few weeks back that also resonated strongly with me; I said that I felt that were “two me’s” living in my head that were constantly at war, and she told me, in the gentlest possible way, that although it felt that way and of course I wanted to believe the “real me” was the all sweetness and light version, in fact all that goes on in my head, all of it makes “me” as a whole. There is no invading demon, no possession, just multiple facets of a person. That helped me a lot because when I accepted that and realised it was true, I knew I could no longer run away because no matter where I went, I’d still be me. I am responsible for the negative behaviours as well as the positives, so with that in mind, how I choose to engage both my mind and in my daily life are up to me. The AV isn’t an invader; it’s a very real part of my own genetic make-up and, now knowing that, I could choose not to engage that part of my mind and instead build resilience and activate the other more positive aspects of my mind and personality. The rational, adult me kept entertaining the petulant, childlike voice of the AV; but I know now that if you always give in to the naughty child, that child will never be happy, enough is never enough, and all parties concerned will be miserable and exhausted.
Anyway, again, thanks to all, I find all of your insights so helpful and fascinating, in fact.
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