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Old 11-21-2020, 10:30 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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I'm sorry to read that Aellyce but I know you have it in you to quit for good. Like Endgame I'm not keen on tough love, I think what works comes from the inside. Before my last quit nearly 6 years ago I had just become so sick of myself and what I had become that it left sobriety as the only option and once I got to thinking that way it wasn't so bad.

What a fantastic post Meraviglioso!
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Old 11-21-2020, 10:39 AM
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Hello Aellyce,

Wow! The place you are at right now has tapped into an archaic part of my mind that hasn’t been tapped into for a long time but sounds and feels so familiar. For five years, after I was supposed to have quit, the happy-go-lucky dilettante me in my late 20’s kept partnering with the secret life drunken me to try and make things work out for the ultimate goal - more drinking in the future. It got more and more desperate until I got a 2nd DUI. It was a blessing in disguise. Overnight, I turned 180 degrees against drinking anymore and became an arch enemy of that deeply ingrained desire. It worked. I beat it.

Where you are now; I believe you can beat it, too. Your deciding to become accountable within this uniquely anonymous social setting of an internet forum represents taking advantage of what this type of socializing offers to the very highest degree. THAT is very smart. It also reveals a lethal weakness of our addictions. We can get quite honest within the disinhibition of drunkeness in a way that can totally backfire on the addiction itself. Congratulations.

At this very moment at this very point in your thread, I believe you are now reaching and helping many addicted people who may not have been reachable in any other way. You have torn away the drapery of a prolonged period of hidden alcohol/drug use to FINALLY become proactive against doing it any more. And that’s another nice thing about SR, this will be able to reach many more people going forward as they click in to read. I know we are ALL looking forward to your success - which will naturally include the ups and downs of life as an abstainer

GerandTwine.


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Old 11-21-2020, 10:47 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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I'm sorry to hear what you're going through and that you're drinking again. One of the most important things about relapse, is knowing that what you're doing isn't working.
For me, I had to get additional support, which I found through AA. I would try to enlist any additional support you can get to get you sober (doesn't necessarily have to be AA). Do whatever it takes to get and stay sober. This is a really tough time and it has definitely tested my sobriety as well, so know you're not alone in this struggle.
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Old 11-21-2020, 12:09 PM
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I'm sorry Aellyce, it's happened to me me as well.

Far from "disappointment" Aellyce I think you have made a gigantic step forward in disclosing to us, and yourself, the reality of your drinking. We can't live in falsehoods, we'll drink for sure. At least I would.

Getting real is is the best thing you could have done for yourself, free now to get on with job of achieving true sobriety. Join the merry crew of those who have travelled before you, us. We get it.

I hope your disclosure has taken away the weight of the burden you have been carrying Aellyce, it's too heavy to carry alone, and we are here for you.

Crumbs, talk about telling fibs, I can remember being chased by a nurse carrying a butterfly net wanting to know how many drinks I'd had. I said 1! I don't think he believed me. . I didn't want to admit it, but now that I have I'm free to start growing within the truth.

It's going to be ok Aellyce, and I thank you for trusting us with your reality. That's took courage.

Please keep coming back.


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Old 11-21-2020, 12:45 PM
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Aellyce, you have put together many sober years! You know how to do this thing. Please don't beat yourself up too much.
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Old 11-21-2020, 01:54 PM
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Oh honey. Just be well. You have always touched me whether you were sober or not. Our friend Robby would have a wealth of wisdom I don’t have. Just know you are better than this.
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Old 11-21-2020, 04:33 PM
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I relapsed plenty this year—being honest is a strong step forward. Like Dee said, fall down seven times and get up eight. I’m building sober time again and working on some of the deeper issues underlying my choice to make bad choices beyond the tough year we’ve all had.

You can do this. Dump the rest, drink water and eat something if you can, and try to sleep.
We’ll be here when you are ready.


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Old 11-21-2020, 05:35 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Aellyce. Glad you want to get honest. Living a world of lies is sickening, I know, I've done it. The first step and the easiest one is stop drinking now.

I wish you well.
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Old 11-21-2020, 06:23 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Meraviglioso View Post
Oh Aellyce, I am so sorry to read this, not because of the lies but because I know how much you must be hurting over having lied and how much you were hurting over the time that you did so. I think many of us have been there where we just couldn't admit it again and the pain of that is soul crushing.
For what it is worth, and this is certainly no reason for you to keep on drinking, all of the posts you have made in the past still hold the incredible weight of intelligent and helpful insight and you remain someone I respect immensely.
Now what are you going to do to get to the place of permanent, true sobriety that you want?
I think talking it out here will help you. I say that just based on previous posts of yours that are of the introspective and curious style.
We are here for you, we understand.

I also hope you will read this article. I have posted it here before but I really can relate to the idea the author presents of just how difficult it is to reach out for help after a relapse.

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/...quittings-end/

Philip Seymour Hoffman: The End of Quitting

By Emmett Rensin
“I CAN’T TELL YOU if I’ll start back up,” President Dwight Eisenhower once said of cigarette smoking, “But I’ll tell you this: I sure as hell ain’t quitting again.”

On Sunday, the body of Philip Seymour Hoffman was discovered in his Manhattan apartment with a needle in his arm. It appears that despite a stint in rehab last spring, Hoffman, like so many other lifelong addicts, relapsed. He wasn’t quitting again. Now he’s dead.

Embarrassment seems to be the major theme. Shame. It’s a shame he had to go this way; it’s a regrettable loss. How could he leave his kids without a father? How could he be so stupid or so selfish?

But if we’re going to talk about embarrassment, we should remember that nobody would be more ashamed than Hoffman to see his own body, cold on a bathroom floor.

This isn’t an obituary. Perhaps it doesn’t go without saying that Hoffman was unparalleled among his peers, or that we have lost who knows how many roles he still had in him, but by now it has certainly been said. I don’t come to bury Hoffman, or to praise him: for that, I suggest Derek Thompson’s beautifully rendered essay in The Atlantic.

Rather, I want to talk about the reaction; about the conversation that’s begun this week and which will no doubt continue in the weeks to come; about this old story that we tell whenever someone dies this way.

How could he? I don’t know. I don’t know why Philip Seymour Hoffman was an addict. I don’t know what demons might be to blame, but as a one-time junkie, I do know that the demons hardly matter. We imagine addiction as a voluntary act, romantic or tragic, depending on our mood. When we try to imagine the scene, we conjure up pictures of the wrong room and the wrong stress; tumultuous men brought low by vulnerability in the face of fear and loneliness.

Maybe that’s what happened here, but I doubt it. Most times, the confluence of circumstances don’t tend toward the dramatic. It’s just something to try. Many of us, especially in youth, experiment with the world’s wide array of narcotics. It’s just that some of us don’t stop.

It isn’t willpower, or shortsightedness. It might be easier if it were. It isn’t existential dread, or reckless abandon, or even some devilish seduction. Usually it’s just mundane. Usually it’s just that heroin is the best you’ll ever feel, and nobody feels that way once and says, “Okay, that was fun. Now I’m never doing it again.” You use. Then it becomes part of who you are.

It’s why a majority of addicts relapse within the first six months of treatment; it’s why first-year Twelve Step dropout rates top 95 percent. Sure, meetings help. So does therapy. But these things cannot shake the memory, not really.

That’s why, despite being off heroin for nearly seven years, I still have a moment that comes every time the season turns when some part of me wants nothing more than to get high. Call it stupidity or selfishness or demons — really, it just is, in a way our language is ill equipped to explicate. There aren’t words for the stubborn fits of that desire. Compulsion doesn’t quite capture it. Addict does, but only in an obvious, unsatisfying way.

Fairly or not, it bothers me when people try. The last few days, I’ve seen an outpouring of sentiment on social media, and between the expressions of disbelief and endless clips from Boogie Nights and Capote, I’ve seen those who have not known addiction in their own lives attempt to make sense of what happened and offer their take on what we should “learn” from this.

I don’t mean the usual suspects. The knee-jerk sanctimony — from “this isn’t a tragedy, he brought it on himself” to “how could he do this to his children” and “how could someone so successful throw it all away?” — are almost easier to deal with. Those old tropes are too tired and obtuse to take too seriously. Rather, in the last few days, I’ve found myself resentfully fixated on the far more well-intentioned outcry of friends and fans who have not known addiction in their own life, saying things like “Remember, guys, it’s never worth it.”

“Don’t forget: heroin is bad for you! If you take it and die, people will be sad!” As if that was the lesson here. As if the thing that stands between an addict and sobriety is the intellectual revelation of the consequences, as if heroin users are operating under the misapprehension that it’s good for them. As if there weren’t junkies with needles in their arms as they read the news about Hoffman. As if, suddenly confronted by the inexorability of overdose, they all put those needles down in shame.

What do these friends imagine? That somebody was about to do heroin for the first time, but a quick check of their Facebook feed prevented it?

I don’t fault anyone for his or her feelings. But when we treat overcoming addiction like it was just a matter of making the consequences resonate enough — of remembering it isn’t worth it — we contribute to the very culture that kills men like Philip Seymour Hoffman. If getting clean were just a matter of dispassionate pros and cons, then we’d be justified in shaming somebody who just can’t do the math right.

But it isn’t like that. We’re fond of saying “addiction is a disease,” but “addiction is a fundamental trait of personality” might be a more accurate refrain. It’s immutable like that. You can’t fix it with a pill or an epiphany. Think of it as a nasty temper: you can learn to control the rage, but sometimes you can’t help seeing red.

If there is a “teaching moment” here, that’s it. First-time addicts rarely die; relapse is what kills. Hoffman had been to rehab. He knew the habit wasn’t worth it. The inevitable consequences had long resonated, I’m sure. But the culture that says that such remembering, taken one day at a time, is the key to recovery is the culture that drives so many — even those who have sought help in the past — to die in the shadows. It’s just too embarrassing to admit you did it anyway. Again.

There are limits to empathy. Every addict lives in fear of reaching them.

In an old episode of The West Wing, Aaron Sorkin — no stranger to addiction — writes a scene in which Leo McGarry, the recovering alcoholic turned White House Chief of Staff, explains why he didn’t tell anyone the second time he took up drinking. “I went to rehab. My friends embraced me when I got out,” he says. “You relapse — it’s not like that. Get away from me, that’s what it’s like.” There are only so many times you can be forgiven for the same thing.

We love redemption stories. We love watching characters brought low by affliction fight their way to glory. We love watching their struggle and their doubts; hey, we’ll even indulge a few second-act screw-ups. But there’s a limit to the repetition we’ll allow. How many do-overs is too many do-overs? When do we get frustrated and bored? Is it five? Ten? Twelve? When does that moment come when even those who know better write off a former friend as a screw-up, consigned to a bed of their own making?

It’s a vicious irony, but the terror of that moment doesn’t stop people from relapsing. Addicts live with that fear, reminders or not. All the head shaking does is make addicts fear admitting that they’re back to square one, from seeking help this time around.

It’s a paralytic mixture of embarrassment and fear. The pressure cripples you. It’s crippled me. I spent the autumn of 2012 snorting painkillers, convinced that somehow this was the only thing preventing a full relapse. I never told anyone till now. You just don’t want to see the way that mouth forms around the word “Again?” And I’m only an ordinary, private addict — how much worse must it be for someone like Hoffman, who knows full well that another stint in rehab would curry a whole world asking why he doesn’t know better by now?

Maybe one day treatment will be easy. Maybe Suboxone, a painkiller with some promise as a withdrawal treatment, will gain widespread acceptance, or some more radical vaccine will hit the US market, and overcoming heroin will be as simple as beating back strep. But until then, it’s little different from cancer, and you wouldn’t tell friends locked in the grip of stage-four death to remember that “it isn’t worth it.” Remission doesn’t work like that.

This has me in tears. Absolutely beautiful piece of writing.
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Old 11-21-2020, 06:38 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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So sorry you're in that place Aellyce. It's hell and no one deserves that pain.
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Old 11-21-2020, 08:36 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Aellyce, all I can think is how brave you are. You came on here and shared a difficult truth because getting sober isn’t that important to you.

I am another one one who always enjoys your posts and I am looking forward to seeing many of them as you work on building those sober days back one day at a time.



I hope you know how much love and support you have here!

❤️Delilah
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:06 PM
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I think it’s a huge break through to admit that you’ve never had any sustained sobriety. People here understand dishonesty. It’s a symptom of our sickness.

This a tremendous first step. I’m not going to say much now except to offer support.
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Old 11-21-2020, 11:06 PM
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I just finished reading the entirety of this thread. People here love you, Alleyce.

Please don't use your shame or other unwanted feelings as an excuse to stop reaching out for help. Most of us have been there.

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Old 11-22-2020, 05:36 AM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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In the early days of quitting I hydrated, and always had food handy (granola, cookies, candy). I didn't deny myself anything except booze.

I did and still do sober meditation: long breaths out, thinking about nothing but streams, grass covered hills, light warm breezes etc etc.

Also counting me breathing: 4 secs in, hold for 7, breath out for 8.

Also the Lords Prayer and Hail Mary's.

All of these were/are my go to meditation moves.

Resting quietly is 80% as effective as sleeping.

So on my back for 8 hours, gets me 6.4 hours of rest. I will take it!

Obviously, in that time there will be some sleep. Sometimes it was only like 5 minutes, but it is better than being drunk.

I also tell myself, let me just get a quick nap here and there tonight. Just telling myself I am going to nap vs sleep takes the pressure off.

Thanks.
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Old 11-22-2020, 07:32 AM
  # 35 (permalink)  
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Day 1

Thank you so much each of you, I can't even begin to express how moved I am by your responses. I expected this feedback on SR because I know the endless compassion of this community (one I have taken advantage of), but experiencing it directly is something different. When I posted this confession, I was still under the influence and disinhibited, and later part of me deeply regretted making this post... not only because of the shame, but because there is no way back now for my addict self now. And least not into the same lies, fake reality, and I know starting to build yet another series of similar lies would not give me any sense of satisfaction or escape now. So, it was definitely a good thing, of course.

It was hard to come back to post and I had a very dark few hours, but luckily I could get some sleep, even if very disrupted and packed with nightmares. I dumped all the alcohol when I said I did it. The first ~24 hours of withdrawal have been rough but finally I feel a bit better now. I experienced this hundreds of times because my drinking pattern in the last ~10 years have been a horrible binge, being awfully sick for a day, getting better... rinse repeat. The real challenge comes now, especially in the next few days, when I would always give in to the intense cravings I tend to experience... Obviously, I still haven't figured out an effective, stable way of resisting them and not acting out. One of the next steps will be discussing it with a doctor now very openly, and asking if they could recommend, something that might work on the desire even a tiny bit, because THIS is my Achilles heal. Of course I also need to address why I basically have learned all there is to know about addiction and recovery, but am unable/unwilling to apply it to myself. I know that some people get cravings worse than others, but I don't believe I am the only one (or even rare) experiencing them so badly. Obviously, thousands of you out there have managed to get through this and recover. Interestingly, the longest and best stint of sobriety for me was earlier this year in the spring - just when the pandemic started and escalated first. I also know from other experiences in my life that stress and difficult situations can help me make constructive changes (instead of precipitating self-destructive behaviors as it tends to be the case for many others), and there will be some of that again in my life in the next year or so, not because of COVID, but some other things I may discuss later, that are clearly the consequences of my drinking. So maybe I can use that for good again, but will need to do better. I'll definitely need to make some bold changes in my life, but I will be forced to do it as well.

Wish there were in-person meetings I could go now, any kind of social support that would happen outside of my home, because the environmental change can be very helpful... but I will need to use what's available anyway. I will start attending recovery meetings online, different kinds, see which is the most helpful. I know one thing for sure: that I need much better tools for managing my cravings for alcohol and relapse prevention. Or need to apply them much better than I have been!

It actually helps to write this post, because before I just felt horribly empty and had no clue how to start my day... it did feel like waking up in a different reality, kinda lost. I've been having dreams now for many years with similar themes - clearly they were communicating a message that I understood but never took seriously enough. But this may be a very good thing now. Thank you so much again. It's a hard place, but I feel tremendously relieved.

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Old 11-22-2020, 08:02 AM
  # 36 (permalink)  
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Hey Aellyce

I was sorry to read your thread. I'm not sure why I don't post much at this time.....who knows. Just too much of everything if that makes sense.

I've always enjoyed reading your posts and will check in regularly to see how you are doing. Honesty with self is one of the biggest pieces of the puzzle and it seems you are really embracing that.

I enjoy a good intellectual challenge. I pride myself on my ability to problem solve by becoming educated about the challenges I face. Sadly, all the education in the world has done little to help me stay sober. I mean, hey, neuroscience sure is interesting. But other than that pretty useless when facing down the bottle.

With respect to addiction there are very few answers in my head. Haha. Kinda weird but true. I cannot think my way sober. I just have to act my way toward it. Every. Single. Day. That part sucks, quite frankly. IT, my addiction, is always there on some level. IT will always be there. I've faced that fact. Maybe others don't have that same experience, but I do. Might be why I ebb and flow here....sometimes I just don't want to think about IT.

Cravings, the really horrible obsessive ones, take time to ease. You are still in the physical stage....so especially bad. I find that lifestyle stuff: Really good diet, a good multi (if your dr says that's ok) exercise (for me critical) and that all elusive sleep (which will come back) are so important. Schedule everything. Clean and organize everything (ok maybe that's just me). i don't know. Just do. Think less. All that navel gazing can come later. Give yourself a break. Forgiveness. Such a big word.....such an almost impossible concept for most of us if you really think about it. But very important to try.

Hang in there. Each day sober will bring you closer to feeling better. Can feel agonizingly slow at first.....next thing ya know it'll be February. Lol.
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Old 11-22-2020, 09:24 AM
  # 37 (permalink)  
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Hi A2

There are weak links in what it takes to keep an addiction alive. Yesterday, you used one of them to take a quantum leap forward towards killing yours off.

I think another one that could be useful to you is that recovery need not be very complicated. I found that the simpler I made it, in other words the more I detached not drinking from everything else in what was becoming the rest of my life, the clearer it was to me exactly what I needed to do to keep ethanol (and other non-scrip meds) out of my blood.

And what it was I needed to do, amazingly, turned out to just be NOT doing certain things. I paused, thought about what I was feeling, remembering, and possibly planning to do, and NOT do it. I felt the hunger, let it be hunger, knew it was harmless and 100% wrong for me to act on it. Then I would get on with what else there was to do. It may take a while for it to get that simple in some addicted people, but it can also happen quickly.

I am putting all this in the past tense for myself now because the old addictive habit is virtually dead in me.

Once, though, about four years ago, IT woke up from a many years sleep and roared at me from its cage. It was startling for a moment. Following an operation, I had run a prescription for hydrocodone out and a deep sadness popped up out of nowhere that I wouldn’t be able to feel that fantastic tidal wave of euphoria and being on the top of the world any more, so where could I get some more? WTF? I smacked IT down immediately. It was odd, because I had been on hydrocodone not too long before that, and can’t even remember when that prescription ran out or how I felt then. There had been zero Addictive Voice activity that time.

GT
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Old 11-22-2020, 10:03 AM
  # 38 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine View Post
I think another one that could be useful to you is that recovery need not be very complicated. I found that the simpler I made it, in other words the more I detached not drinking from everything else in what was becoming the rest of my life, the clearer it was to me exactly what I needed to do to keep ethanol (and other non-scrip meds) out of my blood.
I completely agree that not overcomplicating recovery (and my methods) would be the best approach for me. Trying to now again engage in everything would likely just lead to a superficial and ineffective hodge-podge that I ultimately find dissatisfying and would escape from it again into my favorite passtime of seeking "altered states" whether via substance use, simple lies, or constructing yet another complex fake reality that, sadly, I have "mastered" so well.

The first and foremost banal thing I need to do, of course, is to figure out how to remain sober. Dealing with the cravings for alcohol is definitely a big factor (and the Achilles heal I've always had), but also try to discover how to truly admit defeat and deal with my weaknesses instead of escaping from them into yet another fake who-knows-what, instead of misusing my intelligence to cover it up.
Not just now, this weekend, but consistently, honestly and healthily. This kind of even fully conscious, deliberate reality distortion is a habit for me just as bad as drinking... and just as destructive. Along with the advice, I definitely think I should also pause before I say something, before I engage with others or anything new, and think about the true reasons I am doing it. Like, why did I engage even in SR for so long, sometimes in the past very intensely, while still doing all the same things secretly? I did say in other posts several times how I misused this forum, and I do similar with many other things in my life. I need to figure out how to stop this awful habit as well, because it predates my alcoholism by far. Never as bad when I don't drink, but it underlies my addictions more than it is the consequence of it... and they are linked intimately. Now all this again may sound like too much navel gazing, but I am not sure yet how to be different and live differently. More action than thinking, sure... but it's not that easy to just turn off my mind even when I am very active with good things.... then the whole thing spirals again. I need to find much more and much more constructive focus.
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Old 11-22-2020, 10:06 AM
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Sending an abundance of support your way, Aellyce. All of us are imperfect beings; those of us here perhaps understand that more than most.

We imperfect beings are here for you.
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Old 11-22-2020, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Aellyce2 View Post
... I need to figure out how to stop this awful habit as well, because it predates my alcoholism by far. Never as bad when I don't drink, but it underlies my addictions more than it is the consequence of it... and they are linked intimately. Now all this again may sound like too much navel gazing, but I am not sure yet how to be different and live differently. More action than thinking, sure... but it's not that easy to just turn off my mind even when I am very active with good things.... then the whole thing spirals again. I need to find much more and much more constructive focus.
I have a small suggestion for your consideration. For now, just do one thing -- do not put alcohol in your mouth even if your a** falls off, and be honest about that one thing only, here on SR. If there is other reality distortion going on, other subterfuge or half-truths, even here on SR, perhaps set that aside and don't worry about it for now. Later when you have put a solid string of sober days together, you can start to unpack all that other stuff. But perhaps leave it for now?

My addiction wanted me to think about the reasons I drank, to analyze my personality problems or behavior problems, or think about the past hurts I had received and hurts I had inflicted on others. It wanted me to think about anything except a permanent decision to not drink -- that was the taboo subject my addiction could not allow me to focus on.

I don't mean to be insulting to anyone or to minimize the struggles when other issues are mixed in with a drinking problem. I had some issues too (still have!) ... and I know it can be very hard to untangle, and lots of us need counseling or other treatment to deal with those complicating issues. But in my experience it's a chicken/egg thing ... I had to get some sober time to be in a position to make progress on other stuff. Although I learned a lot the first year and felt much better soon after quitting, the real growth for me has come 4 to 6 years into my sobriety, when I was stable enough to tackle the deeper stuff.

This is my experience only, and of course may not fit for everyone, but I offer it as something to consider.
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