BigBobby

I am coming up 5 years sober and go to AA. With lockdown I have been unable to attend meetings. I decided to join a Facebook group called "The Unexpected Joy of being Sober". If I am fully honest I am utterly shocked at the information that is given to new people. In AA we don't endorse or oppose any causes so this post has nothing to do with AA v The Unexpected Joy of sobriety or any other support groups. I am giving my personal opinion though (not AA) on people being lead up the wrong path.
1) Selfies - All the rage now is taking selfies "Here I am drunk and here I am 14 days sober". Yes we may feel and look better physically but mental recovery is just as important and this seems to be forgotten.
2) Wishing others good luck - recovery is not about luck. Luck is about chance like betting on a horse. Recovery is about us becoming empowered and taking responsibility.
3) The promotion of alcohol free drinks as the silver bullet - each to their own the ball is in your court. For me personally why would I want to maintain a link with something that brought such misery? The promotion of alcohol free drinks to new people can lead people up the wrong path and play with fire?
4) Literature, Literature Literature will stop you drinking - yes reading is important but it is about putting what we learn into action. Reading 1000 never got me sober. I had to WANT to get sober more than anything else in the world.
5) People looking for sympathy - Sympathy is lethal in recovery, feeling sorry for oneself is an excuse for continued drinking.
6) Watch out for triggers - I don't use the word trigger. Triggers are just excuses. If we see things as triggers then it means we allow things around us to have control over us - The boss is angry? The car wont start? The kids are screaming? Recovery is about US taking control and use the tools when life throws a curveball at us.
7) Drinking events in early recovery - I avoided all drinking events in early recovery. Even now after 5 years I don't go unless there is good reason.
8) People on a pink cloud - Life is wonderful, total euphoria, confident, no problems. Dangerous times....Sorry life is not full of rainbows and unicorns. I am not saying life should be miserable and since I have stopped drinking the positives vastly outweigh the negatives. Very soon though reality can hit us with a bang and people are not prepared for this and go back drinking.
9) Counting the days - some people find this motivating but is quality of sobriety more important than quantity? Just because I'm 5 years does that mean the person sat next to me with 28 years is better than me? No.
10) Back at day 1 again - I relapsed many times in recovery but it was a learning experience. I got back up took stock and moved on. Recovery is not about pressing the reset button every time we relapse and starting the stopwatch again. Recovery is about continuous learning and development.
11) I've conquered alcohol what else can I now quit - we all know smoking, diet, inactivity, gambling etc is bad but it is also important not to take on too much in early recovery. I did not stop smoking for 3 years after I quit drinking otherwise I would have overwhelmed myself.
12) I'm so proud of myself - Yes quitting drinking is a massive achievement which we should be proud of but not to let the whole world know just to feed our ego. A big ego in recovery is deadly.
Some people may disagree with what I have said and see me as rather conservative. I do feel however that sometimes people avoid pressing the wrong buttons and say things people don't want to hear for fear of causing offense. This post is not to cause offense and sometimes tough love can be a good thing. Looking back hearing things I did not want to hear and tough love which at the time was hard to swallow was one if the best things that happened to me.

Flowing

Completely agree, it absolutely doesn't mean the guy sat next to you is better than you. Equally you are no better than the guy sat next to you with 30 days as opposed to your 5 years.

There are endless concepts, approaches, mindsets and beliefs in relation to recovery and I think once we start picking apart other peoples opinions, rather than just accepting them as different to our own and focusing on ourselves, we have problems.

To be honest I think the majority of your post is very single minded. Just because something doesn't work for you it doesn't mean it won't work for someone else.

Dee74

Hey BigBobby

Based on my experience here, all I can do is share what worked for me.
It will help some people and others not.

Some people will embrace my help, and some will reject it, sometimes out of hand.

If that starts to get to me, I take a break.

Everyone has their journey, everyone has the right to try and find their own route and even the right to make their own mistakes - and I have to always remember some people make it in radically different ways than I did.

I don’t mind wishing people luck tho. You’re right it’s not about luck, but the way I was bought up, it’s the polite and gentlemanly thing to do

D

WeThinkNot

Your philosophy is that counting the days is a bad practice but the very first thing you mentioned is your five years of sobriety.

I'm so proud of myself - Yes quitting drinking is a massive achievement which we should be proud of but not to let the whole world know just to feed our ego. A big ego in recovery is deadly.

I am completely and unashamedly proud of everything I've accomplished over the past several years and I have no qualms about shouting it from the rooftops or the mountains. Lack of pride and self-esteem was a large component of my addiction to begin with and I suspect this would be the case for a large number of addicts. People feeling pride in recovery, perhaps feeling proud about something for the first time in their lives is something I believe should be actively encouraged.

Derringer

I think people find the level of help they want when first approaching sobriety.

Which is most often not the level of help they actually need.

So many people underestimate what is required to get and stay sober.

And so , what you have described is probably just people's first or second run at things.

They'll find out in their own time and find their own level.

Quite a lot of people also don't need the level of work that those of us in AA do either.

Some people are "recovering" from a mere 2-3 years of relatively minor alcohol abuse. Really just cutting out a bad habit.
Which is a different thing altogether from being an alcoholic of the "hopeless variety" as described in the book AA.


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ZIP

I think you've made some interesting points. Some, I personally agree with, others I don't.
What I've learned in the sobriety journey is flexibility. All of us work on the common goal of alcohol abstinence, but we all don't use the same tools to achieve it.

If I, for example, attend a sobriety meeting and listen to someone wallowing in self-pity, so be it. If it keeps that person sober and eager to attend more meetings, it's worth me sitting there to listen.
Same with day counting...it's a personal and often private accomplishment that folks get excited about as the days tick by. It's worthy of congratulations.

EndGameNYC

We may be more alike than otherwise, but we each find our own way with care and concern from other people. We need support.

There is no other thing like this in life. It's about changing our lives for the better while we're simultaneously on the road to find out who we are. That's a great deal of pressure on its own. Compassion is the purest response and good practice for being a good person.

People may ask for help or guidance, but it's also important to communicate trust for people who are making a genuine effort to get sober. We often need much more than know or that we're able to say.

Steely

Alcohol dependence is so complex it requires unique and individual means to combat it. We each find our own ways and means,. Def agree with you on Learning. I've been a slow learner. Nothing wasted.

Congratulations on achieving 5 great years of sobriety. I'm only 10 months, but I love it. Not easy, but most good things aren't.

Nathan57

Just my opinion, but I believe alcoholism is so complex that what works for one person might be dynamite for another. I like posts that tell what worked for you without generalizing to everybody.

freedomfries

Exactly. An AA meeting could send me barrelling to the off licence but for many people they're life savers. We're all different and we all have to find the recovery that works for us.

AAPJ

Bobby thanks for the thoughtful post. A Facebook page that is unstructured and perhaps does not use the best methods to get people sober? Shocking I say. Not. OTOH I would guess that they have the right goal in mind and for young folks who are completely attached to their @##$% cell phones perhaps their methods are more effective for them than we think.

I have friends in AA who won't join or use the Soberrecovery forum because it's not AA only. Gasp - people recover w/o AA? Impossible!

As a 60 year old active AAer I am in no place to judge what works for others.

DriGuy

There are a lot of recovery groups, and a lot of people in recovery from all walks of life, all with different backgrounds, and different environments. So yes, wrong messages will often be sent out. Probably more often, the right message is sent to the wrong person. We are all different, and one size, method, or well intended tip does not fit everyone. Recovery is a personal thing. It's very very personal, and that means that all of us have to find our own way. Put the most group oriented person in any group, and he/she has to find their own way by listening, SORTING, and choosing what messages are going to be helpful to them. It happened to me in recovery, and it happens to everyone else, whether they acknowledge it to themselves or not. This is something we must do. We must be responsible for our own recovery.

Most help and advice from groups and individuals is well intended, but may or may not strike a chord with everyone. But from this vast array of perspectives, we often find useful information, sometimes in the most unexpected places. In sorting through all of this, we strive to understand, and yes, that means we judge. We make judgements about what is useful to us. It's helpful to not judge others, but that's another issue.

Edit: lol. I posted before I read all the other replies. I could have saved the time, because there isn't anything new in this post that hasn't been said as well or better by others.

Obladi

The single thing that has been most helpful to me is taking the message, "To thine own self be true" to heart. For some people, the hard-edge old-timer approach is a lifesaver. For me, it only added to my deep truth - I was worthless, lesser than. When others tried to tear down my walls using tactics that worked for them, it only poured salt in my wounds - telling me 1000x times what their recipe was didn't make the brew any more tasty. I'm not stupid, I'm just different.

Principles before personality, indeed.

Wegoagain

Awesome post! Could not agree more. Especially about the day one thing...this illness kills. It must be treated seriously...I have sincere doubts about non alcoholic beer...

Bonniefloyd

I’ve joined a similar Facebook group a while back. I don’t really participate because I seldom go on Facebook, but from what I’ve noticed, these groups have been very helpful to some. To address your points:
1. Selfies — just because someone is showing off their external benefits doesn’t mean they’ve forgotten the internal benefits as well. Two things (internal and external improvements) can be true at once. But because they are posting on a social media platform, naturally photos are a part of the experience. When you read the caption, most/many will describe the other benefits as well. Anyway, when I stopped drinking, vanity was a big (but not only) motivator. When I started to see the physical changes, every time I stood in front of the mirror I was reminded of how good I feel, how much happier I am, etc.
2. “Good luck” — it’s just a phrase, not usually meant to be taken so literally.
3. Alcohol free drinks — idk, I see your point here, but some people find them helpful in early sobriety. I don’t see them being promoted as a silver bullet though.
4. Literature — I don’t understand the problem here. I find books enormously helpful. I don’t think anyone really believes that simply reading will stop them from drinking.
5. Sympathy — yeah, I’m not a fan of excessive wallowing. I see nothing wrong with a bit of venting, as long as the discussion is geared toward problem solving.
6. Triggers — i don’t see this word as synonymous for “excuse,” depending on its usage. I tried to avoid triggers during my first few months. If I had relapsed that would have been on me though.
7. Drinking events in early recovery — yep, I agree with you here
8. Pink cloud — yeah, most of the posts in these groups are from people in early sobriety. However, I’ve seen many posts from people as they learn to navigate life’s ups and downs.
9. Counting days — no one is saying that those with more sobriety are better.
10. Day ones — I’m not sure what you mean here. I think everyone is trying to learn from their setbacks?
11. Conquering other bad habits — I don’t know, if they feel ready to take on conquering another vice, good for them. I get what you’re saying about taking on too much, but everyone is different. Most of the posts I see are not like this though.
12. Pride — yeah, I’m damn proud of myself. Just because someone is proud of an accomplishment doesn’t mean they’re on some monstrous ego trip. And I get what you’re saying about tough “love” but I personally find it just pisses me off and makes me shut down. Most people SUCK at giving tough love.

Anyway, I don’t find these groups particularly helpful either, which is why I just go on there to lurk. I think they’re mostly geared for people just trying to get through the early stages, although there are a few people there with years under their belts. But why judge? I’m just super happy for the people who find it helpful.

This January I’ll have two years. I got to this point with this forum, reading books, being a little vain about my appearance, cleaning up my diet (but still treating myself to chocolate), drinking kombucha and fizzy water, understanding my triggers, learning from all my day ones, feeling proud of myself, venting to friends from time to time, working out, and being the best version of myself that I can possibly be. Sobriety isn’t one-size-fits-all.

Hodd

Yes! I’ve never been near AA, but whatever works works.

I will say this forum 100% gave me the message that an alcoholic/dependent can’t drink again. Our brains have been permanently rewired. I’d previously thought I’d be able to drink again moderately. I’d have been in a constant cycle of heavy drinking and withdrawal for another decade. I have to say that piece of advice applies to every poster on here. How they get to that point will differ.

Zencat

IMO AA could be more effective if new concepts of recovery were adopted. My wellness plan is fluid and can change as I grow.
There is a nebulous variety of ways to get and stay sober/clean. I believe in having some choice in what healthy direction I want to integrate into my wellness plan action.

BeABetterMan

Simply, other peoples' sobriety doesn't have to match yours. And the way other people get sober is really none of your business. You have your program, other people have theirs. FWIW, I believe the program is the book and the steps and it is conducted in meetings and between you and your sponsor and the fellowship. All that other stuff, is just stuff. Maybe it matches your program, maybe it doesn't. And remember, your program may not be up to other peoples' standards as well. I just wonder if the time you spent writing that list might have been better spent meditating, praying, going to a meeting or being of service. But again, your program is none of my business. Also, my post isn't meant to be confrontational, I just know that letting the way other people get down take up space in my head has never been and will never be good for me or my serenity.

matrac

I’m glad that you have things figured out for yourself. I would just be careful about labeling some behaviors as egotistical or self-serving, or rooted in denial. That is your interpretation.

I don’t think that there’s anyone here who has misgivings about the struggle or any inclination that it will be as easy as reading a book (for example). I imagine that many of us here (As well as other alcoholics) have looked for that magic bullet before getting to this forum. My experience here has led me to understand that many things need to change and that my life can be very different. I already know how hard it is.

It might be more helpful to us if you tell us about your personal experience and simply lend support?

nez

My introduction to recovery was through a specific group/program. Any success I have experienced is attributable to the people in that group that taught me "how" to think, not "what" to think.