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Old 08-24-2020, 11:54 AM
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What happened? I'm okay I think...

I wasn't sure if I should write this or not and have been pondering whether I should for a month now... but here it is.

So I've had issues with abusive drinking since I was a teen and had many efforts toward quitting without success. I stopped for a year and a half a few years back, then after going on a date, figured I would once again go off the rails. So I drank...

The thing is, I now drink whenever I want and just feel a little buzz, then get tired. I've been actively drinking for more than a year without trying to control it and rarely drink more than three units a day, and most times have 1-2 and that's all I want (3x a week or so). I've been hungover only once during this whole time. What used to be a compulsive thing triggered by almost a hypoglycemic feeling is just gone. I didn't do anything different during my 1.5 years away from booze apart from focusing on my health. I still have my addictive personality, but my compulsion to drink excessively is just gone. Has anyone else accidentally become a normie? Is there a name for it? Does anyone else have experience with this and fell back in the deep end over time? I'm honestly baffled.

I want to thank everyone that's helped me on this site and really just grateful I can live my life without the shackles of booze. It's just a very different thing for me now... I'm wondering if I should just stop drinking so the possibility of re-addiction isn't there? It's not helping or hurting my life. It's a whatever thing that I go do occasionally with friends now. Sometimes a beer to unwind solo at night. Some of the bad drinking habits still exist such as a shooter before a first date, but I don't keep drinking afterward. Is this possible?
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Old 08-24-2020, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by sobersolstice View Post
Has anyone else accidentally become a normie?
...
I'm wondering if I should just stop drinking so the possibility of re-addiction isn't there? It's not helping or hurting my life. It's a whatever thing that I go do occasionally with friends now. Sometimes a beer to unwind solo at night. Some of the bad drinking habits still exist such as a shooter before a first date, but I don't keep drinking afterward. Is this possible?
I've never met an alcoholic who reverted back to being a normie. I think once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. I also think a person doesn't have to drink to call him/herself an alcoholic. I don't drink because I'm an alcoholic. That's why I stopped drinking.

It looks to me like there's something more going on here. Why be concerned about your drinking if you only drink small amounts, several times a week?
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Old 08-24-2020, 12:33 PM
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I was at an online supportive group last Thursday and the facilitator made the observation that for an alcoholic - drinking or not - the moment complacency starts setting in then it's time to think again about your plan as more often than not with an alcoholic it is the top of a slippery slope.

From experience I totally relate to what he said.
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Old 08-24-2020, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sobersolstice View Post
Has anyone else accidentally become a normie? Is there a name for it?
Denial?

I know that I explained away the failure to get clean and sober as my, "...not really having a problem." But I did have a problem and not drinking, at all, has been my solution.

If you no longer have a problem drinking, then good for you. Not every drinking problem is due to alcoholism. And only you know if it's truly gone away.
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Old 08-24-2020, 01:42 PM
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You coming here and posting indicates at least some level of fear on your part about where this could lead so If you can take it or leave It now, I would just leave it. Why take the chance.

has there been any progression at all since you started again? How long has it taken you to get to 3x a week?

after my 53 day quit years ago, I went back to drinking with the intention to moderate. And I did for a long while. However, throughout that time, my consumption did slowly but surely increase. And then when I hit a life crises, I drank more than ever before.
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Old 08-24-2020, 01:53 PM
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Anything's possible and people do change. There are moderation therapies, but it seems the vast majority of people with drinking problems can never go back to normal. So it's probably safer to advise not to. I don't think it'll ever be worth the risk for me as it's too dangerous.
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Old 08-24-2020, 02:09 PM
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Every time I went back to drinking there was usually a grace period where ‘I’d drink like a gentleman‘...but it never lasted.

I’ve never read of a permanent change like that here but maybe folks don’t bother coming back to share that, I dunno...

Having read your posts and threads for a while now, I know the problems drink and drugs have made for you.

I wonder why you don’t just walk away from alcohol completely if you have no compulsion to drink it?

Genuine observation/question.

D
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Old 08-25-2020, 12:59 AM
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Hey Sobersolstice,

I read through some of your old threads last night and it doesn't seem like alcohol has offered you all that much. They were hard to read at times.

I'm not here to judge you, but just picked up on a few of things:

I still have my addictive personality - Not ideal to throw booze into the mix, then?

Sometimes a beer to unwind solo at night - I tried this a few months ago, one or two beers at night to unwind. Within weeks, I was drinking rum again. I hope that doesn't happen to you.

Some of the bad drinking habits still exist such as a shooter before a first date - I used to drink a bottle of wine, or a few double measures of rum before a date, so I get it. But that 'Dutch courage' is false. Maybe try a quick workout instead? It may suit you being athletic and all.

It's not helping or hurting my life - If it's not helping, why not replace it with some healthy alternatives that will help?

Rooting for you!
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Old 08-25-2020, 01:17 AM
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The thing with booze though is that it is a drug that builds increasing tolerance. You say you still get a little buzz from a few drinks, therefore you still are going for that buzz. What about when it takes 5 drinks to get that buzz, then 6 etc?
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Old 08-25-2020, 04:47 AM
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Yeah for me a big issue as Philemon says is the increased tolerance. It now takes me far more alcohol to get a desired buzz than it used to. The buzz is also more fleeting.

I remember in my early twenties, having a beer or two, feeling all floaty. Doing a shot at the bar, that warm and fuzzy sensation. A bottle of wine, feeling euphoric and merry. Well that doesn't happen now.Drinking makes me tired, I feel unwell, I get monged out. It's just not worth it.

With regards to the moderation. Let me tell you, when I went back to drinking after 5 months sober last year, I remember what happend clearly. I'd had thoughts of drinking for a while, I can drink like a normal person I said, so I should have spotted the relapse coming. So the moment I decided to drink. I went and bought a bottle of wine, with the intention of drinking a glass before getting into a taxi on the way to the station. Instead of a glass I had half a bottle in the space of 10 minutes. One large glass, then a quick refill and downed it. Who does that but an alcoholic or someone with a drink problem? Into the cab i go, get to the train station, the train is 12 minutes away or so. What do I do? I walk into the pub next to the train station and ask for a large glass of wine. I drink it in a matter of minutes and then go back to the platform. Who does that?

As soon as I took the first drink, I was back where I was 5 months previously. Drinking quickly and rapidly, obsessing about when and where I can get my next drink. The truth is, even if my behaviour on the surface seemed like I may be drinking like a normal person in some instances, my mentality was that of an alcoholic. Only you can know within you how you view and think about alcohol.
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Old 08-26-2020, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Sober45 View Post
You coming here and posting indicates at least some level of fear on your part about where this could lead so If you can take it or leave It now, I would just leave it. Why take the chance.

has there been any progression at all since you started again? How long has it taken you to get to 3x a week?

after my 53 day quit years ago, I went back to drinking with the intention to moderate. And I did for a long while. However, throughout that time, my consumption did slowly but surely increase. And then when I hit a life crises, I drank more than ever before.
It's quite strange... My physiological reaction to alcohol is different. I don't get that 'hunger in my soul' feeling for booze after two drinks, so it's very rare that I hit 3. I don't really think about booze much and even if I have a sixer in the fridge, will have one or two, then I'm relaxed for a bit, then tired.

I'm mainly posting to see if anyone else has been in the life-altering grips of alcoholism, then without thought, rehab, or intentional change just drinks normally? I'm not regulating my drinking. The craving and "more more more" feeling is gone. It feels very much like my body's physical reaction to alcohol is different where it's no longer filling a void. Maybe I did something to rewire myself by accident?

I am, however, scared that the demon will return, but for now just living my life. The only real difference in my lifestyle is a focus on health and progress in my life versus a 'whoah is me' mentality of the past.

I really didn't want to post any of this as I figured most of you wouldn't understand, but was hoping for a relatable situation. I also always want to thank you guys for the help, love, and support. I may need it again someday, but really hope I don't. You guys are awesome.
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Old 08-26-2020, 09:59 AM
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When I first read your post the other day, Stanton Peele came straight to mind.

Maturing Out

Stanton Peele



I considered several titles for this column, but the one I've used — "Maturing Out" — describes how most people resolve addictions. The term "maturing out" has long been applied to heroin addicts who outgrow their habits. An important social researcher in New York City, Charles Winick, was the first to use this "street" term. In exploring public health records of known heroin addicts, he noted that those who first became addicts in their late teens ceased to appear on these lists between their mid-twenties and mid-thirties. Only a few died; the others, he discovered, eventually assumed the adult roles they had avoided while they were immersed in their drug habits and environments. (See Charles Winick, 1962, "Maturing Out of Narcotic Addiction," Bulletin on Narcotics, 14, 1-7.)

Alternate terms for this process are "natural recovery" or "spontaneous remission." These terms generally refer to people who overcome diseases, even though they either did not receive treatment or did not respond to it. This process is often a mysterious one, similar to when people recover from cancer or other serious illness without explanation. But maturing out of addiction, as observed by Winick, is more typical than not. Unlike pneumonia or diabetes or most other somatic diseases, addiction is often a self-correcting problem.

This doesn't mean it is easy, or that it doesn't take effort. Nor does it mean that people who fail to overcome addiction currently will never do so — more often than not, sooner or later, many do. For instance, most people who smoke will eventually quit. And most will do so without relying on formal treatment or even a support group — no small task considering smoking may be the most difficult addiction to quit. (For those of you who have quit drinking and smoking, which did you find easier to give up?)

To illustrate the vast number of people who are able to overcome addictions on their own (or at least without entering a treatment program or AA), let's look at research produced by epidemiological investigators for the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA). Keep in mind that the head of the NIAAA, Enoch Gordis, is a physician who is strongly committed to the view that alcoholism is a treatable disease.

The National Longitudinal Alcohol Epidemiologic Survey (NLAES) was conducted in 1992 by the US Census Bureau on behalf of the NIAAA. Census field workers interviewed nearly 43,000 respondents across America, a sample of US adults 18 years of age and older. Each interview examined the use of alcohol and drugs over a person's entire life with a focus on the preceding year.

Deborah A. Dawson, an NIAAA epidemiologist, then analyzed interviews with 4585 NLAES subjects who had at some time in their lives been alcohol-dependent, according to diagnostic criteria from DSM-IV. (This is the manual used by the American Psychiatric Association.) Only a quarter of this group had ever been treated for alcoholism. Those who had received some kind of treatment were slightly more likely than their untreated counterparts to have had a drinking problem in the previous year. (Although a surprising number continued to drink without a diagnosis of either abuse or dependence, fewer did so than those who had not been in treatment.)


NLAES Data on Ever-Alcohol-Dependent Subjects Outcome categories
over past year: Treated (n=1233) Untreated (n=3309) Drinking with abuse/dependence 33% 26% Abstinent 39% 16% Drinking w/o abuse/dependence 28% 58% (Deborah Dawson, 1996, "Correlates of past-year status among treated and untreated person with former alcohol dependence: United States, 1992," Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research, 20, 771-779.)

Since the treated and untreated groups differed in the initial severity of their problems, it would not be fair to claim that therapy leads to worse results than no therapy. But treatment is far from uniformly beneficial for those who undergo it:
  • Most people who do not undergo treatment are ultimately able to come to grips with their drinking problems on their own.
  • Most do so by reducing their drinking rather than abstaining.
  • Even a quarter of treated alcoholics accomplished this feat over the previous year (note they are not necessarily drinking socially, but only without a fully diagnosable problem).
Why describe the nature and frequency of maturing out with drugs, alcohol and cigarettes? This is at the heart of how I view and treat addiction. To say that people "mature out" is not to say that maturing out is a passive process. Maturing into an adult role takes time, motivation, effort and a facilitative environment. Moreover, even for those people who are able to lick alcoholism without treatment, the process of eliminating pathological drinking can sometimes take decades.

Obviously, bad things can happen to people in the time it takes to recover on their own (if they ever do), so it's wise to try to accelerate this process. How do I do this? First, I help people see that according to their own values, leaving the addiction is more valuable than continuing in the addiction. Second, I work with them to channel this realization into efforts at improving their work, social and recreational lives. Third, I focus on their environments — to look for the supports they will need in this process, and to observe the changes that will be required in their lives to escape addiction.

What do I see as the advantages of the "maturing out" approach? Many consider that the "disease" model allows people to feel their addiction is not their fault, and that they should seek help to overcome it. In the maturing out approach, people come to see that "recovery" is a natural process that is more likely than not to occur as long as they make realistic progress in the key areas of their lives. The addiction is not lifelong and all-powerful; rather, it is something with which ordinary people like themselves can come to grips. Armed with this perspective, many people find additional strength and motivation to pursue a path of health and growth that will put the addiction in their rear view mirrors.

peele.net,







This is something I researched years and years ago in relation to smoking (like 20 years ago). I didn't mention it previously because I feel like sharing this could cause someone else to abandon recovery thinking they may as well wait until they mature out of it. That would NOT be a good thing.

To anyone reading this, I think that all models of addiction are worth review since we are all different.

BTW, 20 years later and I didn't mature out of smoking. I did quit 2 years ago but am still using nicorette.

Last edited by Dee74; 08-26-2020 at 08:09 PM. Reason: commercial link removed
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Old 08-26-2020, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by sobersolstice View Post
It's quite strange...

I am, however, scared that the demon will return, but for now just living my life. The only real difference in my lifestyle is a focus on health and progress in my life versus a 'whoah is me' mentality of the past.

I really didn't want to post any of this as I figured most of you wouldn't understand, but was hoping for a relatable situation.
It looks to me like you're dancing with the devil. And I think the appropriate word here is denial.
It also looks to me like the voice of your AV is behind your posts here. Not someone whose sobriety is of utmost importance.
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Old 08-26-2020, 10:14 AM
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After I read Annie Graces book about drinking, it really changed my perspective on alcohol. It’s actually poison to the body, and no matter how much one drinks, the body immediately kicks in to eliminate it. We package and market it with slick bottles and advertising that normalizes it in society.

But its still poison the body was never meant to ingest. At all.

Maybe find other ways to unwind? A walk? Stretching? Meditation?

best wishes!
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Old 08-26-2020, 11:23 AM
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I personally value my sobriety too much to take any risk and 'test' to see if I now drink normally. I also think that sort of thinking is bad for people to read, as it may convince people on here that they don't have to fully commit to sobriety, as they may just become normal again one day.

That's great for you if it's the case. Never heard of this before, but I have heard of people reverting to drinking normally for a time, only to crash into disaster later on, be it days, weeks, months or many years later. Is it worth continuing and just hoping you don't end up that way again?

I noticed you've been on this board for a long while, have made a lot of posts and had a lot of bad experiences with alcohol. I personally have never ever invested that much time thinking about my drinking problem. I'm not entirely convinced that a person who has had booze dominate their thoughts as much as it has yours will just be normal from now on, but I guess it's up to you to decide whether to continue or stop.
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Old 08-26-2020, 11:59 AM
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It sounds like you are not done...
maybe you are maybe you are not...
That is for you to decide and only time will tell.

I wish you the best in this journey of life.
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Old 08-26-2020, 01:46 PM
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Sure its possible, thats what you are doing, for now. I would say why not just quit for good if its not that big of a deal. Save some money if anything. Drinking is not going to give you anything of value.
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Old 08-26-2020, 01:56 PM
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I only drink for the feeling, not the taste or to be like others. Just to get that merry feeling which then leads to drunkeness. If I didn't need to drink I wouldn't.

I had over 3 years sober once then started again occasionally, 2 glasses of wine and that was enough. It was amazing- I was cured or had somehow reverted back to normal. I did it again a few weeks later, this went on for months. Then 1 night I just got totally drunk and said right enough's enough and stopped again. Only I didn't stop, I kept on drinking, on and off, on and off. It;s now over 4 years since I picked up again. I;ve had weeks, months of sobriety within that but still I return.

I think my point is if you don't need to drink then why drink? If you can take it or leave it maybe it's safer to leave it, just in case.
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Old 08-26-2020, 02:28 PM
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Hmmm. It sounds a bit like you doth protest too much. I feel if a part of you deep down didn’t think you had a problem, I don’t think you’d be here. I understand you are saying (and believe!) it’s because you are just baffled and curious. But I think someone who didn’t have an issue would not even be thinking about this right now. They would be having any of the billions of other thoughts they could be having. I really hope you’re right. I really do. It would be amazing if you just snap back to being a Normie. I just don’t think that exists.
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Old 08-26-2020, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Sober45 View Post

When I first read your post the other day, Stanton Peele came straight to mind. This is something I researched years and years ago in relation to smoking (like 20 years ago). I didn't mention it previously because I feel like sharing this could cause someone else to abandon recovery thinking they may as well wait until they mature out of it. That would NOT be a good thing.

To anyone reading this, I think that all models of addiction are worth review since we are all different.

BTW, 20 years later and I didn't mature out of smoking. I did quit 2 years ago but am still using nicorette.
Selling people hope they might one day become normal drinkers is big business....

I only know one person who used to drink anything like I used to and who know drinks normally now and thats my brother.

He got married, had kids, settled down and drinks like the next 50yo Aussie now.

Was he an alcoholic? I doubt it.
He was just young, at college and drank like everyone did then.

when the party was over he stopped got up and went to work.
I kept going.

I've said this before but I'll say it once again - I can't remember anyone who was a member here for any appreciable amount of time who magically became a 'normal drinker'.

D

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