freshstart57

Brandy, most folks who get sober do it without a formal program of any sort. I note you have been sober for 10 weeks out of three years while pursuing the idea that AA would be your path to sobriety. To me this suggests you will do well to look beyond for your initial choice. There is nothing 'unfortunate' about choosing another path that makes more sense to you. I feel that I can speak plainly like this to you because this was my experience too. I've been solidly sober for 9 years now, never a relapse. I achieved this, not by believing I was helpless, but by believing I had everything I needed within me to live the sober life I deserve. I believe you can do this too, Brandy. I believe in you.

DriGuy

I believe you are describing a phenomenon (inner tuition) that others have named a higher power, something they believe is outside themselves, and for which they do not take credit. I have actually considered this, and for a brief time, I considered calling this my higher power, but in the end I tossed it. It's not a higher power, it's just me having something resembling a conversation with myself. It is something like Eastern meditation or Western mindfulness. Look inside and you will discover your paths, answers, and how to accept the things you cannot change. Do not mistake this for any more than just a tool to work with. It's not a higher power. It's just there for us to discover and use, along with a dose of medicine and serious discipline to get ourselves started.

nez

I will leave that determination up to other people. I don't spend any time trying to define it or name it. I just try to improve my conscious contact with whatever it is.

Bubovski

As I understand the AA God, it refers to a God of our own genuine understanding,not necessarily one belonging to a specific religion.
In other words you don't have to follow any specific religious dogmas.
By holding that there may well be spiritual betterment and values far beyond our understanding, and opting to do our best, as we genuinely understand such, we give ourselves an additional window of opportunity.
Agnosticism is simply not being too overbearing about religion.......or atheism for that matter.
Good luck with your research.

Santi27

I joined a group where we spoke about our experiences and offered each other support. From everything that I've read about AA, my group did the same great work but it didn't have any religious element nor did we talk about God. There were people in the group who had faith and some who went to church, but that wasn't the focus of the group.
Are there "non-religious" AA groups in your area?

zerothehero

I prefer the SMART Recovery approach because it basically says we got ourselves into this mess and it's our responsibility to get ourselves out. There is no handing over our will. There is no hoping or expecting something outside of ourselves will remove our so-called defects. SMART is science-based, rooted in various evidence-based therapies (CBT, REBT, DBT, MI). Meta-analyses of various approaches to recovery show little difference in efficacy between the approaches; the common thread is community. When we find and open ourselves to community we begin to heal. We have a sense of belonging and support. We need to spend time with people who aren't using substances. Don't get too caught up with the details. Since catechism classes when I was a boy I've gotten myself into trouble for asking questions. When sincere questions are met with defensiveness or blaming or shaming (you're just in denial), I walk. When I'm told, "My way or the highway," I take the highway, thank you very much. That's why I'm on my own path. I've read a lot, attended some 12 Step meetings, SMART, and a lot of meditation classes and retreats, a philosophy group... There are lots of other recovery groups, depending on where you live. Many recover without a sponsor or doing the Steps, but if you're reading this and you're comfortable, feel supported, and benefitting from a 12 Step group, keep going. "It only works if you work it," as they say, but this is true for any approach to recovery. I worked it and I keep working it, but I'm working it my own way. Happily sober over six years.

Lines

If you've been sober for 3 years, then why would you be doomed going forward? You've already been doing it.

I suppose it depends on what your definition of God is, but I'd suggest you also try an actual church / religious setting as that might give you more help. AA is about staying sober, but I dont think it can help you actually build a relationship with God and make an actual connection. Disclaimer- I dont use AA but after reading about it, these are my feelings. The program seems unnecessary to me if one already has the God connection in their life.

Also, maybe it's not for you. I dont like the quote you made above which I believe is part of the AA text. It implies you are failing, or doing something wrong. When in truth, this may just not be for you. The program in its entirety at least isnt working for you. It's ok to say that. 3 years is a long attempt.. why not try some behavioral therapy or a different program as others have mentioned.

davaidavai

I've always used 'reality'as my higher power. I remember at one of the meetings I attended before the virus, someone told me that his higher power started out as the 'universe' and then became the 'higher power,' as if there is a more appropriate higher power to have. And you can see this sort of funnel action as an aspect of the text. Your higher power may be a group of drunks in the beginning,but when you arrive at we agnostics, the hope is there that it will be narrowed down a bit.

Have you ever read Thomas Merton? A catholic monk who thought that eastern and western monasticism were driving at the same goal with the same higher power, which was, is, a radical thought to interpose against a long standing religious orthodoxy. There's another even simpler layer there though. Like, the whole point, the inner mystery of Christianity is to see how screwed up humanity is for executing a decent human being and having at last absorbed that lesson, to finally be just. And yet, such a simple point of view wouldn't have survived because it's common sense, hence the need for a religion to carry the basic insight, maybe until messiah consciousness arrives and we no longer need the husk.

There are similar layers and echoes of this in AA. There is an orthodoxy with a bunch of dramatic storytelling -- which might attract people because it's sort of recognizable, echoes a commonly held view -- a more mystical approach, like the universe, or the matrix as a higher power -- and then perhaps beneath that is the simplicity of understanding that connection is the opposite of addiction. I have an addiction and this is connection. Too simple for a Big Book or for a world in which being good is still a mystery.

DriGuy

That to me would be the ultimate higher power, and a good one to "improve your conscious contact with."

davaidavai

I don't know if it is actually a higher power per se.

I remember during my third step with my latest 'sponsor' I was told to create a list of traits belonging to my higher power on one side, and then on the other write what in a perfect world a higher power should be, and then throw away the first shard of paper which contained my own innate conception. Obviously in a perfect world, yeah, I'd like for there to be a God that cares.

So I did the step, but I took it with a grain of salt. In retrospect, I think this sort of thing is where AA over steps. I don't think anyone should have to feel stress or concern that they are 'constitutionally incapable of being honest' if they have some problems with some of Bill Wilson's ideas. He was just a very persuasive dude, and I think he wrote that probably because he wanted to be helpful but it's a muddled, egotistical idea to say the least. Critical thinking is healthy.

The moral I think is boundaries are important.

DriGuy

It is not a higher power, at least not of the kind with the sentient mystical qualities necessary to care, listen, and advise, specifically the one AA intends you to eventually accept.

In the interests of "keeping it simple," reality is just reality. It need not be anything more, and assigning it god status is as useless as it would be to assign god status to the universe, trees, or doorknobs.

But the issue in this thread as introduced in the OP is, "How necessary a god like higher power is to recovery." Is it more necessary than the honesty of admitting your limits to believing in the unseen? Is in more necessary than not being able to delegate responsibility to something outside of yourself? I don't think so, and I would hope that our BrandyC can learn to accept her own reality and ignore what is not personally helpful. Brandy obviously wants the community of AA as it can be a powerful source of help, but parts of the doctrine are not useful to everyone.

I'm all for people including the mystery of spirituality in recovery if they are predisposed to believe in such powers. I understand the psychology of why believers think this is valid, and should be for others. But for many of us, it is not helpful and becomes a major distraction from solving our problem. Some of us need the community provided by AA, but will be driven off by a narrowness of the doctrine, even though we find the community to be a great help.

turniptheheat

I completely get where you're coming from Driguy. When I first heard that AA was a spiritual program, all I could think of was religious sects hoping that God would cure them even though there is modern medicine. It seemed far fetched to me. While I have worked other programs and stayed sober, it only has been the AA program that has brought me peace.

For me, relinquishing control and accepting there are things at work that are beyond my control has been the pathway to peace. Does that mean I just stand idly by? No. I still do what I can to best accomplish things, but then I leave the rest to God, or the universe if you so wish. I think there are things that we still do not understand with spirituality, but having a relationship with God as I understand him has been helpful in my case.

AA does not have a monopoly on recovery. By all means, if the AA program doesn't work for you, try another method of recovery.

DriGuy

I think it's important to keep in mind that you can use AA without buying the whole package. It may be the solution for people like Candy, who need a place to go, but also need to think and make judgements on their own. Parts of AA can be useful. The community was for me, and it would have been a mistake [for me] to simply go someplace else, especially when there was no place else, at least in small town Montana so many years ago.

There is another catch phrase in AA, "Take what works and leave the rest," but it often doesn't sound that sincere when followed with threatening exhortations to accept specific but unprovable foundations of the program. I spent a lot of time pushing back against the evangelists, but eventually I was accepted by most of the group. I didn't need the program, but I needed those people. I really needed those people.

Tommyh

brandy,looks like to me you are holding onto old ideas of some sort
i was
I had trouble with it too
I sat those old ideas aside and just asked "whoever or whatever that may be out there to keep me sober today" and say thank you at night

it worked,and it was my beginning

brighterday1234

This is a great post and similar to my viewpoint.