Aellyce

Thanks guys. Anxiety was what I suspected at first but I doubt it causes persistent sore throat, lingering cough, congestion, weird sense of smell/taste, and in the beginning on/off fever as well... who knows for sure though. Anxiety can indeed be the best actor. I also feel mentally more restless and irritable now than in the beginning of the lockdown, and that initial novelty-driven (I think) mood boost is mostly gone, but am not that anxious consciously and sleep well most nights. But you are right and I should call my doctor or go to a walk-in clinic, the objective result would be informative. I share your feelings, Hawkeye, about repeating history and not learning all that much in terms of taking dramatically different actions. That's so much ingrained in human nature and history has not demonstrated yet outstanding, lasting change in this pattern when we look through hundreds and thousands of years. I also believe it is because we are programmed by nature and it'll eventually prevail over the greatest passions, hopes, beliefs that are also so characteristic of many of us. This is partly a reference to my earlier question regarding the ideas that things will never be the same. My intuition is that smaller perceptions, dealing with things etc might change a bit (for a while at least), but really grand shifts? I dunno, I like to focus on constructive lessons and productive choices, but am too cynical a person to be able to believe in that sort of thing on global levels. I have been wearing masks, gloves and have been disinfecting everything in the past month or so, and I think we all should continue doing that until we figure out an effective vaccine and learn more about the virus and illness. Whatever I have now, I definitely got it before everyone started to be much more careful. Stopping precautions now or in the near future out of mental restlessness and worry will only increase the risk for everyone and will not eliminate the anxiety at all.

MesaMan

.
^^^ What Hawkeye said in Post #60.

Multiple challenges in Life over recent Years come down to applying the Reality of me sobering up. I stick to thee Fundamentals. Don't put that first Drink to my Mouth. It wasn't always easy. But, it was simple.

In a like manner, I've applied to our Life now a similar POV. What we can/will do has thoroughly changed until ~1 Month after we've both received a 'credible' COVID-19 Vaccine. No substitutions allowed. This binary choice - irrespective of Vaccine Timeline - keeps it all very simple. I don't care what other Variables, or Social Policies, come and go. This also eliminates getting sucked into false Markers that things are 'OK', or that risk for us Oldsters has magically changed to become tolerable.

There are important - and forgotten - Lessons to be learned from the 1918 Pandemic. Some Lessons appear to need re-learning. However, I can bypass that Learning Curve, and focus on only what *I* need to do. Much like going to a Wedding Reception and *not* having to drink. Neither my Drinking, nor my COVID-19 adaptive behaviors while in Public, depend one iota on what others do.

This recent, formidable Article summarizes what is currently known, and not known. This is a complex situation not amenable to a singular, easy solution IMO.

https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...qPyJjpgn5dJsSY

Aellyce

Thanks, MesaMan, for posting that article. I sent it to some of my colleagues last weekend. Sadly, so many even in the medical profession present sloppy "arguments" and superficial pseudo-knowledge, just to tout their own position and draw attention to their own "truth" and agenda.

Sober369

I hope you feel better fast, Alysse (sorry if I spelled your name wrong, we also can't scroll up and read above when we are posting anymore)
I hope you can get a test, too. I've heard that the antibody tests that are out right now can give a false positive 50 percent of the time. That's what I would like to take, because I think its very possible that I had it, too. My son was sick, then I got sick, and the Dr. thought it was bronchitis. It may well have been. It would be nice to know for sure. I'm feeling better today than I have in over a month. I'm afraid I'm overdoing, it's so nice to have the energy to do things!
I won't be going to any of the places that have recently opened in Georgia. I'm in until there is a treatment, a vaccine, or I find out that I have antibodies and that they make me immune.

stargazer016

Great article MesaMan. Thanks for sharing.

Kaneda8888

I witnessed a distressing event yesterday morning which I think is the result of the current lockdown.On Wednesday mornings, I do an interval run around a secluded park.
It is at the back end of a golf course so its fairly quiet. Mostly dog walkers and runners.
During my laps I noticed a young woman walking her dog. Her partner then jogged down the track and joined her. A tall man of medium build. She was noticeably shorter than him and obviously a smaller build. Soon afterwards, they started fighting.ÂÂÂÂ It wasnt physical, purely verbal. But it was a huge shouting match. The man towered over the woman and was shouting at the top of his lungs. Initially, I thought it was some sort of weird playacting but as I passed them by, I could hear the vicious profanity spewed out by the man.ÂÂ
I am not a naive or precious individual. I'm an alky !ÂÂ So, I have had my fair share of fights with my wife. I have also shouted on the odd occasion. But I have never used profanity or such vile words as this man.ÂÂ The man ran away and the woman chased him. She also shouted a bit as well.ÂÂ ÂÂÂ However, what struck me was the difference in size between the two. At one point, I feared he would start hitting her.ÂÂÂ I dont think that happened as the shouting began to subside.ÂÂ
I am sure the anxiety and stress of lockdown and the crumbling economic environment has triggered this.ÂÂÂÂ It was upsetting for many reasons and made me reflect back on past arguments with my wife in shame.ÂÂÂÂ
Just wanted to get this off my chest.
ThanksÂÂÂÂ

least

I depend heavily on my Billie to comfort me and keep me from feeling lonely. She's such a velcro dog anyway, always right close to me.


I love Calvin and Hobbes.

EndGameNYC

It can be difficult to avoid thinking about or confronting things that we might normally not address without our everyday distractions. This can be very intense with couples who are forced, without warning or permission, to face themselves in relation to their partners; an extraordinary event or process that rarely benefits from involuntary participation.

I don't know how everyone manages the daily trauma. It's a real thing.

Feelings of grief, a chronic sense of loss, anger and disgust, and fear and doubt are with me most days. I didn't get to choose my feelings.

A neighbor of mine had an extremely difficult time of it after her last day of going into work on March 20th. She became extremely paranoid and spent a great deal of time convincing herself that she had a range of symptoms associated with COVID-19. She kept her bathroom light on, day and night, for reassurance.

I recommended she find a therapist and gave her a bunch of leads. There are organizations here that offer the services of therapists with different backgrounds with a range of education, training, and experience at a reduced fee. And numerous hotlines. No one needs to go through this alone.

The first referral didn't work out. The therapist seemed to want my neighbor to listen to her concerns, her fears, her grievances. She hit the jackpot on the second try. It doesn't always happen that quickly.

This is hard; harder for some than others. I don't think it's supposed to be easy, and I don't know if it will ever get easier.

nikegoddess112

Verbal abuse is abuse. It's also very difficult to know the dynamics of an abusive situation from limited outside observation. A large man can be abused by a small woman. Abuse is often not about physical size. Sometimes a victim who is picking up whatever they can to defend themselves or fight back against an abuser can be perceived to be the one at fault.
Kaneda8888,
I'm absolutely not saying that has anything to do with what you saw!!
Simply adding perhaps a bit of awareness that large, strong men can be the victims of abuse. Anyone can. Being abused by bullies, supposed loved ones, family members, etc. is not okay.

Thank you for speaking out here and saying what you saw was something you aren't okay with.

As I learn what love, peace, harmony in living and healthy well balanced relationships are, it helps me heal from abuse.

Aellyce

I definitely agree that bullies and abusers are not always the ones that appear the most suspicious. I think often they have a strong victim mentality as well and use that to relate to others, to draw sympathy, to manipulate. Such people often also build cliques of admirers and supporters around them and use that to back them up.

This is from the other side of the coin regarding COVID and mental health - explaining why some people's mental state improves during the pandemic. I liked it because it validates my experience and does not tell me what I feel is impossible, gross denial, or even too odd. I relate to most of what it says and (as I said a few times earlier) it is not the first time I react this way to what others describe as major trauma.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/corona...now?ref=scroll

Also good news that finally my hospital called that I am now eligible for the antibody test and can go in to do it next week. Told them I had some symptoms again this week and they said that's okay and many people who have been infected experience similar lingering for a long time. We'll see.

Meraviglioso

Thanks for coming back during this time and participating EndGame. You have always been a solid source of great advice and information. I think it helps all of us in this time to see that even some of the strongest among us are dealing with difficult emotions and having a hard time.
I was particularly saddened yesterday to hear of a doctor who worked at a hospital in Brooklyn. She came down with the virus through her work and once tested negative returned to work. But she was having a hard time dealing and her family, who happen to live in my hometown, encouraged her to come there to stay with them for a bit. While there she committed suicide. According to reports quoting the family, she had never suffered anxiety or depression, but she was having such a hard time dealing with all the death and not being able to save lives as she had been trained to do.

EndGameNYC

It's such a tragic story. I read it a few times from different outlets. I wasn't getting enough information from any of them, and I wanted to know more about this woman. I kept thinking that some people do die from a broken heart.

My brother's been working lots of hours as an ER doctor, and then moving to other units when needed. I'm not at all surprised; this is what he does.
Thank you for your kind words and your warm welcome, Mera. You've done a lot of good things here, and helped a bunch of people along the way.

I didn't make a decision to start participating again; it was what I needed to do. And if I'm strong, it's because I've learned to reach out for help and support. Because it feels good to help someone else, I'm here for that too. There are a lot of sharp people here; some of them are among those who are also nurturing and supportive.

I also get something good from how I see people treat each other here. There's so much support. A feeling of comfort or well-being manages to hijack wireless transport and make it from one place to another. With a group of people struggling with saving and re-building our lives (often more than once), there's also bound to be friction. This isn't the Glee Club.

entropy1964

Hey Guys I need some Covid advice.
So, as I've shared a lot, I've been in a remodel. So I've had the same 3 guys here everyday pretty much. Yesterday I also had a plumber and some furniture delivery guys. So what I'm saying is, I can only be so careful. Bottom line I've been exposed quite a lot because having a bathroom that works, and a functioning kitchen felt very important to me. And my guys don't get paid unless they work.
In spite of all that I have tried to follow guidelines etc. And I barely leave the house but to exercise and walk the dog. I shop maybe every 10 days. So I am careful.
Ok, the question or issue is: My daughter is now living with me since we now have the downstairs pretty much to ourselves. We share the one fully functioning bathroom. She wants to go to work after May 8th (right now she has an online job with the Bio dept but that will end when school ends) but she is terrified of giving me or her dad Covid. I've tried to explain to her that its not as much about not getting it, as it is about slowing spread down. That we can't hide forever and that she needs to get out and have a life. I've told her that I've already been around all kinds of people who I have no idea how they've been behaving.
I've told her we will create a check list, get all the supplies (mask, gloves, alcohol, wipes yadda yadda) and we can social distance from each other. And when the upstairs is done she will have an entire floor, including bathroom, to herself.
But she's so anxious. I also told her that getting a job may be harder than she thinks. She's 19 so she's talking a restaurant or coffee place. Those places will have smaller crews and they will probs hire back the people they have let go first.
Anyway, this is a long post. Is my usual. But its complex. She is desperately bored and needs interaction. She has really bad anxiety so she's just worried about everything.
I don't even know what my question is. It's just so complex. Do you guys think maybe there is an awareness that we can't escape this? We can be as careful as possible but life has to go on?
We live in a small state, suburban. 15 deaths in our county. Of course that could all change. I don't want her to throw caution to the wind, but she can't stay inside forever. Blah. Its just so hard for kids. Uni says they will have f2f classes in the fall. But that could change too.
What do I tell her to ease her anxiety?

biminiblue

Aww, flips. You can't fix her anxiety. All you can do is listen and tell her you feel the same way sometimes.

We can't escape it, that's the hard bit.

We're all in the same Groundhog's Day as she is.

We just have to get through Today.

Aellyce

Entropy, I find your plan of being careful at home etc already good but also very much understand your daughter's anxiety. I know I would be the same way at any age if I shared my home with anyone else and probably nothing would ease the discomfort. Even just not being able to be free in one's home to go anywhere and do anything... having to constantly clean and watch what you are doing ... can take a toll on mental health and ability to cope with any situation. Would renting a place on her own be an option for your daughter, even if only temporarily? If she works and has income, perhaps a place in the suburbs is not super expensive? And even if she had to have roommates, perhaps she would worry about those less than her parents? I don't have kids, but if I had at this time, I would probably help them even financially for a while to do that, of course if I could afford.

thomas11

Circling back to a post I made last week about the food supply chain. If you have been watching the news lately its precisely what is going on. Farmers can't send their livestock to the processing plants because they are closed. If thought people flipped out over toilet paper, wait until we can't get food.

Aellyce

I think it would never be the same with food. Maybe some shortage in some types, but there is such a great variety in food that issues with the production of certain meats, for example, may never be a very significant problem for consumers, even if people start panic-buying. Say, there is a shortage of chicken - we'll eat something else. Of course it is an entirely different problem for specific farmers and others in the production chain. Also, the rate of infections is going down now pretty much everywhere (or wasn't even very high to start with) and the lockdown will start to be lifted soon. People back to work, increased production etc. We may have second waves of COVID in some areas but the reaction to them will likely not be the same.

I also wanted to comment on the sudden mental health decline, including suicidal ideation and actual suicide. A poetic kind of expression may be "dying from a broken heart" but it is actually a broken brain. There are some indications that COVID-19 affects the nervous system (e.g. the loss of smell/taste) and it is possible it also impacts other, more complex brain functions directly, not only as a byproduct of trauma, isolation, helplessness. This will certainly be an area of scientific research for a long time to come but, sadly, it is fair to expect more victims.

thomas11

Pretty amazing what you said in this post. Mainly because I was thinking the exact same things. Regarding the food supply, I don't think anyone here in the USA is gonna starve, but we might pay a pretty price for a good steak. Other countries have it so much worse. In fact I'm sending 5000 peso to the Philippines so a guy I met over there can get his newborn taken care of. He didn't ask, I offered.
As far as suicidal ideation, exactly. It is what I was going through last week. I don't think I'd do it, but the idea of it sounded pretty good at the time. I'm not going to say its normal, but I think it occurs more than people would like to admit. Anyone agree?

Aellyce

I agree. It is not popular for most people because everyone is scared of suicide, let alone taking responsibility for discussing it with someone who is currently in that state...No one wants to live with such a guilt. I personally think suicidal ideation is a normal part of being human and I feel it's weirder if someone never struggles with those existential challenges. I think I have a baseline inclination but also got so used to them during my drinking, it was part of my everyday reality for years. Much less in sobriety, due to vast improvements in my mental health and perspective, but I honestly don't think think there is a single week when some form does not cross my mind at all. I don't see the thoughts as pathological and they almost never cross a threshold where I seriously start plotting something, other than old-age / severe illness end of life plans, but that's a very different topic. Like many things, it's about dosage and how we handle the thoughts and feelings... obviously drowning them in alcohol and drugs is not the way to go, impulsive suicide either. For me, they can actually be quite inspiring to think more deeply and it has been similar for many throughout history - just look at all the philosophies born from existential dilemmas and struggles. Of course an acute state of crisis, like now, can exacerbate all that, especially for people who don't normally go there in their everyday mindset and reality. There is a lot of good to be found in exploring the darker realms of existence, but of course it is best to be done voluntarily and gradually, not being thrown in the depth of it without conditioning, like sadly many people are right now.

Dee74

I think a lot of peoples mental health is suffering right now, but I still think anyone experiencing suicidal ideation - especially on a regular basis - needs to see a professional Jeff.
It might be a shared experience, it may even be a little more prevalent in times like these -
but (with all due respect to Aellyce) I wouldn't call it normal myself - it needs to be addressed.

D