Boundaries
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,410
Some tough questions (meant kindly) to ask yourself here:
1. Is this the role model you want to show your 12 year daughter about relationship dynamics?
2. Is it acceptatble that you should make yourself sometimes "crazy", go on medication, and compromise on family interaction (when just drinking and going to bed is "good") so that he gets to continue drinking?
It is hard to get your head around all this I know. But please understand that the addiction itself is not in remission and not standing still. It is doing push ups in the garage while you are cutting deals, and he is getting to keep using.
As I said on your other thread in F and Family, you can pretty much bet that he is hiding both the amount and frequency of his alcohol intake. That's the pattern.
It could explain why he may have gotten the DUI which surprised you--drinking on the way home so you don't know how much he's actually had before he sees you. Lots of drinkers do this--I would say most as functionality erodes and more is needed to keep the buzz / feeling of "normality" for the alcoholic.
I really hope he chooses recovery, but as long as he is drinking any amount, his actions show he has not made that choice. He's just placating you until the scrutiny dies down. Others here will confirm what I'm saying. It's what alcoholics do.
1. Is this the role model you want to show your 12 year daughter about relationship dynamics?
2. Is it acceptatble that you should make yourself sometimes "crazy", go on medication, and compromise on family interaction (when just drinking and going to bed is "good") so that he gets to continue drinking?
It is hard to get your head around all this I know. But please understand that the addiction itself is not in remission and not standing still. It is doing push ups in the garage while you are cutting deals, and he is getting to keep using.
As I said on your other thread in F and Family, you can pretty much bet that he is hiding both the amount and frequency of his alcohol intake. That's the pattern.
It could explain why he may have gotten the DUI which surprised you--drinking on the way home so you don't know how much he's actually had before he sees you. Lots of drinkers do this--I would say most as functionality erodes and more is needed to keep the buzz / feeling of "normality" for the alcoholic.
I really hope he chooses recovery, but as long as he is drinking any amount, his actions show he has not made that choice. He's just placating you until the scrutiny dies down. Others here will confirm what I'm saying. It's what alcoholics do.
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Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,410
Well I sincerely hope it works out.
Again, I can only speak as to my own experience. I tried countless times to moderate or whatever, like pretending to myself that I would control my drinking. Examples were that I would try to only have 2 or 3 per night, or only weekends. They were all exercises in futility and failed every time.
I think that once you get past a certain point, there is no such thing as moderation. I had thought about it, but only after about a week of clearing the alcohol out of my system, and spending a lot of time on SR, did I begin to see the power that it had over me. At that point my emotions kind of leveled me from thinking about things like all the pain I had caused my wife and the terrible example I had been setting for my kid. At that point I also let go of all the stress, anxiety, and resentments that had me locked in that cycle.
"If he can't stay sober for the majority of time within the 3 months"
"I slip up and eat sugar sometimes! But i need to have a benchmark in my head of how to handle slip ups, one night is ok (like last night, he wasn't drunk but just had some and went to bed), but how often?"
I hear that you are trying to work with him on it, and there is no way that someone can really understand. At this point there is no "most of the time". That does not exist for him anymore. And only after having time to clear the alcohol completely from his system is he ever going to have a chance of actually seeing what he was doing and the power that he was allowing alcohol to have over him.
Again, I hope I'm being helpful by sharing my experience. It kills me to hear of someone doing the same thing I was doing just 40 days ago. He'll probably never do it, but I would be glad to talk with him about it.
Again, I can only speak as to my own experience. I tried countless times to moderate or whatever, like pretending to myself that I would control my drinking. Examples were that I would try to only have 2 or 3 per night, or only weekends. They were all exercises in futility and failed every time.
I think that once you get past a certain point, there is no such thing as moderation. I had thought about it, but only after about a week of clearing the alcohol out of my system, and spending a lot of time on SR, did I begin to see the power that it had over me. At that point my emotions kind of leveled me from thinking about things like all the pain I had caused my wife and the terrible example I had been setting for my kid. At that point I also let go of all the stress, anxiety, and resentments that had me locked in that cycle.
"If he can't stay sober for the majority of time within the 3 months"
"I slip up and eat sugar sometimes! But i need to have a benchmark in my head of how to handle slip ups, one night is ok (like last night, he wasn't drunk but just had some and went to bed), but how often?"
I hear that you are trying to work with him on it, and there is no way that someone can really understand. At this point there is no "most of the time". That does not exist for him anymore. And only after having time to clear the alcohol completely from his system is he ever going to have a chance of actually seeing what he was doing and the power that he was allowing alcohol to have over him.
Again, I hope I'm being helpful by sharing my experience. It kills me to hear of someone doing the same thing I was doing just 40 days ago. He'll probably never do it, but I would be glad to talk with him about it.
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Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,410
Originally Posted by Hawkeye13 
he is hiding both the amount and frequency of his alcohol intake.
drinking on the way home
as long as he is drinking any amount, his actions show he has not made that choice.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 1,468
Originally Posted by OliviaLynnMarsh
Cityboy, used your advice and cut a deal with him, so to speak. I don't demand that he goes to the addictions counsellor right now, I let him spend 3 months just using the Habits Unplugged program. If he can't stay sober for the majority of time within the 3 months, we'll only stay with him if he goes to the addictions counsellor. I don't think it's a good idea to threaten someone if they slip up, we're only human - I slip up and eat sugar sometimes! But i need to have a benchmark in my head of how to handle slip ups, one night is ok (like last night, he wasn't drunk but just had some and went to bed), but how often? These questions must sound crazy, I'm sorry. I feel crazy sometimes. Not the same carefree, confident woman that was 10 years ago.
1. Comparing sugar to alcohol is not even in the same ball game. Does sugar make you drive wreckless? Put you and others in danger?
2. Every single time you accept him DRINKING, you are accepting all the actions and repercussions that come with it.
This is your life, live it how you want. If you want to ride a rollercoaster forever, that is exactly what you will do every single time he drinks. If he doesn't act a fool today, don't worry he WILL tomorrow.
See,
I was with someone who wanted me to stop drinking.
I did quit for a while.
He missed his drinking buddy, so he would "allow" me to drink sometimes. Only an ALCOHOLIC needs to count how many drinks they have had, only an ALCOHOLIC needs to make rules for themselves such as "I can only drink beer" "No shots" "I can only drink after 5 pm" "No drinking during the week"
Well, my ex (yes we are now EXes) and I would make all these rules for myself that I could not follow 90% of the time.
I could not follow them because I am an alcoholic. Once alcohol touched my lips, there is NO stopping me from drinking more, wanting more, doing whatever I have to in order to get more.
So, when I finally made the decision to get sober, stay sober and live a sober life... I kicked him out. He would drink in front of me every single night for 6 months. I realized he was not for me. He did not support me, he did not really love me.
Once the fog was clear, everything else in life became more clear. People and their intentions, my goals, and general health and well being.
My mom is an alcoholic. I hated seeing her act a fool and I sadly turned out just like her (monkey see, monkey do) HOWEVER I am well enough to change the cycle of bad parenting and my child will NEVER see me drunk. What a shame any child has to see that, be fearful of what could happen, worry if that parent is okay, etc...
I will keep you in my prayers for strength and courage to get through this.
Blessings,
DC
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 1,132
I also did not agree with the comparison of alcohol with sugar. Either you stop alcohol or you don't stop alcohol. It is that black and white. Also, your 12 year old knows a heck of a lot more than you think she does. I would continue seeing your counselor and set boundaries for yourself and for your kids.
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
As others have said, as long as he’s drinking any amount he’s not even slightly in recovery. He’s attempting to moderate. It might not be terrible all the time but despite his or your best intentions he can’t control if/when it will be so unless he stops completely the cycle will continue. Also the method he uses to get sober is not as important as his level of commitment to it.. I’m not sure any counselor (especially one who isn’t seeing him personally) can say whether he’s doing all the right things for his sobriety, but that will speak for itself if he continues to drink.
While I think it could definitely be important for him to get professional help for his past, that issue can wait if necessary, addressing the drinking cannot.. It seems you are suffering from the same delusional thinking about this as he is. This is not your “fault” or responsibility, but the best thing you can do to set boundaries is to help yourself, educate yourself, surround yourself with support and let him freely choose or not choose to do his own work.. If nothing changes and the only way to help yourself is to leave, I’d strongly consider that as an option.
While I think it could definitely be important for him to get professional help for his past, that issue can wait if necessary, addressing the drinking cannot.. It seems you are suffering from the same delusional thinking about this as he is. This is not your “fault” or responsibility, but the best thing you can do to set boundaries is to help yourself, educate yourself, surround yourself with support and let him freely choose or not choose to do his own work.. If nothing changes and the only way to help yourself is to leave, I’d strongly consider that as an option.
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Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 5,151
Originally Posted by OliviaLynnMarsh
Am I being naive here? Please , I won't take offence.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 65
Thank you HawkEye, Cityboy and others. I so appreciate your candor and empathy. My husband did quit a couple of years back (2 years sober). He wants to quit now too, but I can see it's a struggle. I have a lot to think about. Just talked with my 19 year old and he definitely does not want us to leave. He's not hurting us mom, he says and we can help him not to hurt himself. I'm so glad I don't drink. I have to ask this, what's the idea with trying to get your non-drinking spouse to drink? He'll be ;like, "I can go get you a bottle of wine if you want". I find it really funny because I only have a glass if I'm having steak at a restaurant, but even when sober , he does that. Almost seems disappointed that I don't. Some typical psychological addiction thing maybe. Anyways, reading and re-reading your ideas. Really appreciate the input.
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Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,410
I've wondered if it's the same thing as when my mom keeps trying to get me to eat a piece of pie even though there can be no question that pie is not a healthy food choice, or if there is something specific to alcoholic that makes people do that sometimes.
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
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Olivia, we have some good book recommendations for Teens that you might find helpful:
Brooks, C. The Secret Everyone Knows: Help for You If Alcohol Is a Problem in Your Home
Hornik-Beer, E. B For Teenagers Living with a Parent Who Abuses Alcohol/Drugs
Leite, B. Different Like Me: A Book for Teens Who Worry about Their Parent's Use of Alcohol/Drugs
Porterfield, K. Coping with an Alcoholic Parent
Alateen: A Day at a Time Virginia Beach, VA: Al-Anon Family Groups
Alateen: Hope for Children of Alcoholics Virginia Beach, VA: Al-Anon Family Groups
Brooks, C. The Secret Everyone Knows: Help for You If Alcohol Is a Problem in Your Home
Hornik-Beer, E. B For Teenagers Living with a Parent Who Abuses Alcohol/Drugs
Leite, B. Different Like Me: A Book for Teens Who Worry about Their Parent's Use of Alcohol/Drugs
Porterfield, K. Coping with an Alcoholic Parent
Alateen: A Day at a Time Virginia Beach, VA: Al-Anon Family Groups
Alateen: Hope for Children of Alcoholics Virginia Beach, VA: Al-Anon Family Groups
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 65
[QUOTE=Anna;7387942]Olivia, we have some good book recommendations for Teens that you might find helpful:
Thank you for the book ideas Anna. They won't be open to that right now because they don't realize how long this has been going on, so I guess they have more hope and naivety than I. I'll keep the list handy though.
Thank you for the book ideas Anna. They won't be open to that right now because they don't realize how long this has been going on, so I guess they have more hope and naivety than I. I'll keep the list handy though.
under new management
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 2,339
Originally Posted by OliviaLynnMarsh
I have to ask this, what's the idea with trying to get your non-drinking spouse to drink? He'll be ;like, "I can go get you a bottle of wine if you want". I find it really funny because I only have a glass if I'm having steak at a restaurant, but even when sober , he does that. Almost seems disappointed that I don't. Some typical psychological addiction thing maybe. Anyways, reading and re-reading your ideas. Really appreciate the input.
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 446
Olivia,
Tons of good advice here that I can only reenforce:
- the most important thing that I’ve learned here on the Newcomers forum is that once you’ve crossed the line, moderation no longer works. Ever again. And your husband seems to have crossed that line, like so many of us. Moderation is every drinkers dream. But it is over. Done. Finito.
- secondly: when I first came here, I had no idea that getting sober was a process (guess that’s why they call it recovery, lol!). It takes a while (like 6 months without a drop of alcohol) before you’re on the other side and you see what you’ve done to yourself and your family. And then you need to keep on working and things will get better. Moderation will not allow this crucial development to happen.
So if your husband does not stop drinking, things will deteriorate, maybe not quickly, but they will. Brace yourself and start to establish boundaries. This is not personal: you are not fighting him, you are fighting this horrible disease. Good luck and all the best!
Tons of good advice here that I can only reenforce:
- the most important thing that I’ve learned here on the Newcomers forum is that once you’ve crossed the line, moderation no longer works. Ever again. And your husband seems to have crossed that line, like so many of us. Moderation is every drinkers dream. But it is over. Done. Finito.
- secondly: when I first came here, I had no idea that getting sober was a process (guess that’s why they call it recovery, lol!). It takes a while (like 6 months without a drop of alcohol) before you’re on the other side and you see what you’ve done to yourself and your family. And then you need to keep on working and things will get better. Moderation will not allow this crucial development to happen.
So if your husband does not stop drinking, things will deteriorate, maybe not quickly, but they will. Brace yourself and start to establish boundaries. This is not personal: you are not fighting him, you are fighting this horrible disease. Good luck and all the best!
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
Sorry if my reply sounded way too blunt/aggressive (reading it back it kind of does), It just seems like you "know" the reality of his patterns but keep hoping things will somehow be different. I'm not a parent so can't really comment on that, but would think protecting them from the extent of the problems may end up doing them more harm than good if things take another turn for the worse.. Or even if they find themselves or someone they're with displaying similar drinking patterns someday and believe it's "normal" because it was always brushed under the rug (sort of what happened with me watching both of my step parents growing up) but that's just a thought and maybe totally a projection that's not relevant in your situation.. Anyway hope you find whatever solution is best for you and your family.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 104
Hi OLM
I sort of functioned - got away with it - at work but not at home. While I was painfully learning that moderation would never work for me, my wife was even more painfully learning the things they say on F&F. It was only when I absolutely believed I has the choice between drink or my family that I stopped. The gift of desperation. The children were toddlers then and while I'm not the best Dad/person in the world we did OK. Just off this morning to run a half marathon with my daughter, now in her late 20s, who has never drunk alcohol....
Good luck and be strong
ND
I sort of functioned - got away with it - at work but not at home. While I was painfully learning that moderation would never work for me, my wife was even more painfully learning the things they say on F&F. It was only when I absolutely believed I has the choice between drink or my family that I stopped. The gift of desperation. The children were toddlers then and while I'm not the best Dad/person in the world we did OK. Just off this morning to run a half marathon with my daughter, now in her late 20s, who has never drunk alcohol....
Good luck and be strong
ND
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 65
I really appreciate your replies everyone. No worries about being blunt... I need to hear it all and I actually do ask the questions of myself to help me navigate. Yes, he’s still drinking. 4 nights out of about 17 is great compared to nearly every night though. Promised me today he will see the addictions counsellor next week and continue to do so, and I’m holding him to that. I’m confident that he’ll go. I’m hanging on and being patient for another few weeks and plan to spend more time focusing on myself and the kids. Thanks again .
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Originally Posted by OliviaLynnMarsh
Hi, new here. Mom with kids. Married to a good guy except when he's drinking, extremely bad judgement and a little nasty verbally. Quit before, trying to quit again. Usually it's just passing out on couch 3-5 days a week, then moderates for a bit, then gets worse, then eventually escalates to major incident, then quits, then moderates...you get the picture. I'd be done now but found out about a very troubled childhood only this past year so I have more empathy and compassion now. A week ago, stress triggered major incidents, drunk driving, kids now know, they range in age from 10-20. Different ballgame now that our son had to see him in that way, passed out cold in a vehicle on an old road. I'm doing professional counseling. It's helpful but I'm in a bit of a quandry and need some perspective. He's very quiet tonight after I communicated a boundary.I asked why I'm getting the silent treatment but left it alone. He just seems upset and pensive so I suppose he's just taking it all in. On the advice of my counselor, I told him that he needs to see an addictions counselor in addition to the aa and online program he's doing. She says no accountability with the others, he needs professional one on one. If he won't, the idea is that I ask him to leave or I leave with the kids, and also if he relapses into the second day (so give him a day if he slips, then second day if still drinking he has to leave or we leave). Here's the thing, I know he won't leave and I'm not sure my kids will want to either. This is their home and I'm not going without them - obviously they need me. Does anyone have a situation like this or a solution? I've been protecting them from a lot for years so they're probably still a little naive to where this may go. I really don't know what to do, what plan to have. I fully intend to stay with him if he sees the addictions counselor and things are going well. Maybe I'm worrying too much. I would love to hear from someone who has experience with or knows of a similar situation. Thank you.
My wife (g/f at the time...) said enough is enough and left. She was sick of my drinking. My wife is a healthy individual and wouldn't put up with an active alcoholic.
Maybe three months later I started attending AA. My g/f didn't give a damn.
She didn't want any more promises. She wanted the drinking to stopped. End of story. No more "explanations."
.
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