The evolution of envy
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The evolution of envy
After reading another user's post this morning I was struck by something that occurred to me. While I know envy is not an emotion to esteem to, it is a fact of life for many of us. Whether it's money, muscles, looks, ease or _____________, wanting what other's have is just necessarily a part of life. I certainly continue to work on myself in order to confront and deal with envy, among other sins of the undisciplined mind, but that's not what I wanted to write about.
I read the post about someone who, in the midst of more than a year of sobriety, decided to have some drinks. It turned out to fine, at least in the scope of things. He put down again.
What I noticed when I read about it, and what I wanted to share, was that there wasn't a piece of me that was envious of his decision to drink.
There is a clear and firm shift in my mind. I didn't even hear my AV chirp up with some nonsense about how nice that would be. To be honest I really felt pity.
And when I examined my envy, ie who or what do I really long to have a life like, what situations do I wish I was able to experience - alcohol has nothing to do with it. I'm envious of people with inner peace, people who do not lust after things they cannot achieve or should not hold, I want calm and success and to provide.
Booze is just a lazy, nasty and pathetic option in life for me now. For others it may be different. For me, and I thank my 655 days of sobriety, for this, the desire to pick up again is a desire I can no longer relate to. Not that I won't feel pangs and wistful swings of AV-based thoughts here and there in the future. But it's a great feeling today and I wanted to share.
I read the post about someone who, in the midst of more than a year of sobriety, decided to have some drinks. It turned out to fine, at least in the scope of things. He put down again.
What I noticed when I read about it, and what I wanted to share, was that there wasn't a piece of me that was envious of his decision to drink.
There is a clear and firm shift in my mind. I didn't even hear my AV chirp up with some nonsense about how nice that would be. To be honest I really felt pity.
And when I examined my envy, ie who or what do I really long to have a life like, what situations do I wish I was able to experience - alcohol has nothing to do with it. I'm envious of people with inner peace, people who do not lust after things they cannot achieve or should not hold, I want calm and success and to provide.
Booze is just a lazy, nasty and pathetic option in life for me now. For others it may be different. For me, and I thank my 655 days of sobriety, for this, the desire to pick up again is a desire I can no longer relate to. Not that I won't feel pangs and wistful swings of AV-based thoughts here and there in the future. But it's a great feeling today and I wanted to share.
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I hate sports.
However, the death of Kobe Bryant and his daughter shocked and upset me.
A man with everything, gone at 41. His daughter 13.
No one is promised tomorrow.
We need to stop envying, comparing, hating ourselves and strive to live happy, healthy lives grateful we have another day.
Fail, bit fail quickly. Theres too much living to do.
However, the death of Kobe Bryant and his daughter shocked and upset me.
A man with everything, gone at 41. His daughter 13.
No one is promised tomorrow.
We need to stop envying, comparing, hating ourselves and strive to live happy, healthy lives grateful we have another day.
Fail, bit fail quickly. Theres too much living to do.
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Life is so much better sober Less. I guarantee you there is a lot more envy of you with 655 days sober, to anyone logging on who is starting out or starting again. I just checked how many days I have and it’s is 1488, I wouldn’t trade any of them.
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Originally Posted by sortofhomecomin 
In the interests of consistency, the OP should be in the AA thread.
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lg, really good post and made me think of something I heard and took to heart early on (yes, in AA but I've heard it elsewhere and think it's gold): look for the people who have what I want.
They aren't envious of others, jealous or rude, or controlling, or fearful...lots of stuff that I think can entwine. Certainly be connected to envy.
The people who have what I want are satisfied, have good priorities for their best lives as they see it, are thoughtful and generous, are engaged with others, want to keep being good people on this planet while they are here.
You're awesome, lg. We have diff paths as we've talked about plenty, and I admire how you do you.
They aren't envious of others, jealous or rude, or controlling, or fearful...lots of stuff that I think can entwine. Certainly be connected to envy.
The people who have what I want are satisfied, have good priorities for their best lives as they see it, are thoughtful and generous, are engaged with others, want to keep being good people on this planet while they are here.
You're awesome, lg. We have diff paths as we've talked about plenty, and I admire how you do you.
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Thanks everyone, perhaps I should've found a better word than "envy". Substitute want or desire.
August - yes it's always instructive for me to run into your posts on other threads - we have approached this thing very very differently and yet I think we both have great respect for each other and have learned from each.
Dee - no question at all. I wouldn't trade it for anything. Thank you.
August - yes it's always instructive for me to run into your posts on other threads - we have approached this thing very very differently and yet I think we both have great respect for each other and have learned from each.
Dee - no question at all. I wouldn't trade it for anything. Thank you.
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Join Date: Dec 2019
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Your posts are always amazing lessgravity. This one is too. I don't understand what the AA thing is about, but I don't do AA either. I have an awesome support group that is not AA but includes 3 people with over 30 years sobriety. And I have the most important support tool for me - MY SR FAM!!!! I love all of you.
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Less - great post. It made me think of the following passage from AA. I realize it's not your program but it seems to fit here.
it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been charaterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his liquor drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.
Linked with the permission of Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.
Like you I have also had a change in my thinking. I discovered it sort of by accident right here on SR. This happened maybe 1-2 months ago. I was reading an old thread that had been resurrected. In the thread I read a post from 2017 and the person commented about the idea of desiring to drink like a normal person. At the time of the post in 2017 I agreed with his statement and gave the post a like. When I re-read it more recently I realized that at least for me the desire to drink like a normal person had greatly diminished - perhaps even extinguished. I think of this as acceptance as I realized over time that this is an illusion.
Now if only I could completely get rid of my AV.... progress not perfection I guess.
it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been charaterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his liquor drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.
Linked with the permission of Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc.
Like you I have also had a change in my thinking. I discovered it sort of by accident right here on SR. This happened maybe 1-2 months ago. I was reading an old thread that had been resurrected. In the thread I read a post from 2017 and the person commented about the idea of desiring to drink like a normal person. At the time of the post in 2017 I agreed with his statement and gave the post a like. When I re-read it more recently I realized that at least for me the desire to drink like a normal person had greatly diminished - perhaps even extinguished. I think of this as acceptance as I realized over time that this is an illusion.
Now if only I could completely get rid of my AV.... progress not perfection I guess.
Last edited by Dee74; 01-28-2020 at 02:29 AM. Reason: AA copyright
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I know what you mean less... I have experienced it when I quit smoking: from the point where I would have loved to be able to smoke only on 'special occasions' to the moment when I would have not wanted a cigarette even if they paid me to have one.
I am not there yet with alcohol: I would return to drinking if I could do it moderately on social occasions and get pissed at weddings once or twice a year. But I hope I will get there too. For the time being I know well that my life is much better for not drinking. Every minute of it. So I will stick to it until I get to that point where I feel the same towards alcohol I feel towards tobacco.
It is reassuring to read your post knowing it is totally possible to get there.
I am not there yet with alcohol: I would return to drinking if I could do it moderately on social occasions and get pissed at weddings once or twice a year. But I hope I will get there too. For the time being I know well that my life is much better for not drinking. Every minute of it. So I will stick to it until I get to that point where I feel the same towards alcohol I feel towards tobacco.
It is reassuring to read your post knowing it is totally possible to get there.
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I want to add, that even when I felt totally disgusted by the idea of smoking I took one cigarette during one of my drunken nights. It was as revolting as I expected it to be. I could not stand my own smell. I was convinced there was no way back to smoking for me. In a few months, I was smoking 20 cigarettes a day, not enjoying any of them.
I quit again 5 + months ago.
So even when you know there is no pleasure on it, don't touch it is my motto.
I quit again 5 + months ago.
So even when you know there is no pleasure on it, don't touch it is my motto.
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One of the things that I like about you lg is how you unpack things, in particular words. My mom was a philosophy professor and started studying later in life, so when I was a teen she was full on learning to think philosophically. It drove me nuts and I ended up rebelling against it but came back around later and now appreciate the effect it had on me.
I like the use of “envy” here and I feel like I get it, too. It seems significant enough to be a milestone in a sense. Is a milestone relegated to something linear and measurable? To me it isn’t, necessarily. Another nice thing about these collections of online conversations and contributions.
It seems to be something you’ve talked about also, often it seems you’ve shared that your neighbors or friends share bottles of wine, and I feel like I’ve seen a kind of journey you’ve taken in your experience of relating with these people in your life.
I have a sober friend who told me that she drank whiskey, I think it was in Scotland on vacation from the US. When she told me this I was stunned, and it was a similar story - she didn’t drink again. The story was so casually shared that I feared for her at the time and I also was grappling inside with some judgments and other things. Not sure how much I shared but I know I was feeling them.
I think envy may have been behind some of those feelings.
It feels a little more concrete now, a total lack of that feeling. I don’t have to do that. I don’t have to do that to myself. I’m not judging another persons decision to, but I’m so glad I don’t have to. Did you ever smoke cigarettes? I did, and when I quit I felt a little jealous of others but plowed forward because I knew with utter confidence that quitting was absolutely the best thing for me, and for them, and everyone, no judgment, just science.
Now I have exactly zero desire to smoke. If someone said “I smoked while I was in France” I’d think uhhhh.... yuck? I mean, was that fun? No shade but not my thing. This is a major place where at least for me I don’t feel powerLESS but I feel powerFUL over my addiction. I am a cigarette addict (as biologically anyone who is human who uses that addictive product with frequency will become) - and I have zero desire to smoke. Zero. I don’t envy anyone who smokes, not in France once, or shivering at midnight outside on their porch, or on a smoke break, not. At. All. I don’t begrudge people smoke breaks either because thank god I don’t have to do that. I hate the smell and the effect and the pervasive industry of smoking.
I feel the same way about alcohol. Total lack of envy for alcohol users whether they are so called “normies” or recovery one off revisitors or active alcoholics.
I like the use of “envy” here and I feel like I get it, too. It seems significant enough to be a milestone in a sense. Is a milestone relegated to something linear and measurable? To me it isn’t, necessarily. Another nice thing about these collections of online conversations and contributions.
It seems to be something you’ve talked about also, often it seems you’ve shared that your neighbors or friends share bottles of wine, and I feel like I’ve seen a kind of journey you’ve taken in your experience of relating with these people in your life.
I have a sober friend who told me that she drank whiskey, I think it was in Scotland on vacation from the US. When she told me this I was stunned, and it was a similar story - she didn’t drink again. The story was so casually shared that I feared for her at the time and I also was grappling inside with some judgments and other things. Not sure how much I shared but I know I was feeling them.
I think envy may have been behind some of those feelings.
It feels a little more concrete now, a total lack of that feeling. I don’t have to do that. I don’t have to do that to myself. I’m not judging another persons decision to, but I’m so glad I don’t have to. Did you ever smoke cigarettes? I did, and when I quit I felt a little jealous of others but plowed forward because I knew with utter confidence that quitting was absolutely the best thing for me, and for them, and everyone, no judgment, just science.
Now I have exactly zero desire to smoke. If someone said “I smoked while I was in France” I’d think uhhhh.... yuck? I mean, was that fun? No shade but not my thing. This is a major place where at least for me I don’t feel powerLESS but I feel powerFUL over my addiction. I am a cigarette addict (as biologically anyone who is human who uses that addictive product with frequency will become) - and I have zero desire to smoke. Zero. I don’t envy anyone who smokes, not in France once, or shivering at midnight outside on their porch, or on a smoke break, not. At. All. I don’t begrudge people smoke breaks either because thank god I don’t have to do that. I hate the smell and the effect and the pervasive industry of smoking.
I feel the same way about alcohol. Total lack of envy for alcohol users whether they are so called “normies” or recovery one off revisitors or active alcoholics.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: here, now.
Posts: 1,236
One of the things that I like about you lg is how you unpack things, in particular words. My mom was a philosophy professor and started studying later in life, so when I was a teen she was full on learning to think philosophically. It drove me nuts and I ended up rebelling against it but came back around later and now appreciate the effect it had on me.
I like the use of “envy” here and I feel like I get it, too. It seems significant enough to be a milestone in a sense. Is a milestone relegated to something linear and measurable? To me it isn’t, necessarily. Another nice thing about these collections of online conversations and contributions.
It seems to be something you’ve talked about also, often it seems you’ve shared that your neighbors or friends share bottles of wine, and I feel like I’ve seen a kind of journey you’ve taken in your experience of relating with these people in your life.
I have a sober friend who told me that she drank whiskey, I think it was in Scotland on vacation from the US. When she told me this I was stunned, and it was a similar story - she didn’t drink again. The story was so casually shared that I feared for her at the time and I also was grappling inside with some judgments and other things. Not sure how much I shared but I know I was feeling them.
I think envy may have been behind some of those feelings.
It feels a little more concrete now, a total lack of that feeling. I don’t have to do that. I don’t have to do that to myself. I’m not judging another persons decision to, but I’m so glad I don’t have to. Did you ever smoke cigarettes? I did, and when I quit I felt a little jealous of others but plowed forward because I knew with utter confidence that quitting was absolutely the best thing for me, and for them, and everyone, no judgment, just science.
Now I have exactly zero desire to smoke. If someone said “I smoked while I was in France” I’d think uhhhh.... yuck? I mean, was that fun? No shade but not my thing. This is a major place where at least for me I don’t feel powerLESS but I feel powerFUL over my addiction. I am a cigarette addict (as biologically anyone who is human who uses that addictive product with frequency will become) and I have zero desire to smoke. Zero. I don’t envy anyone who smokes, not in France once, or shivering at midnight outside on their porch, or on a smoke break, not. At. All. I don’t begrudge people smoke breaks either because thank god I don’t have to do that. I hate the smell and the effect and the pervasive industry of smoking.
I feel the same way about alcohol. Total lack of envy for alcohol users whether they are so called “normies” or recovery one off revisit orbs or active alcoholics.
I like the use of “envy” here and I feel like I get it, too. It seems significant enough to be a milestone in a sense. Is a milestone relegated to something linear and measurable? To me it isn’t, necessarily. Another nice thing about these collections of online conversations and contributions.
It seems to be something you’ve talked about also, often it seems you’ve shared that your neighbors or friends share bottles of wine, and I feel like I’ve seen a kind of journey you’ve taken in your experience of relating with these people in your life.
I have a sober friend who told me that she drank whiskey, I think it was in Scotland on vacation from the US. When she told me this I was stunned, and it was a similar story - she didn’t drink again. The story was so casually shared that I feared for her at the time and I also was grappling inside with some judgments and other things. Not sure how much I shared but I know I was feeling them.
I think envy may have been behind some of those feelings.
It feels a little more concrete now, a total lack of that feeling. I don’t have to do that. I don’t have to do that to myself. I’m not judging another persons decision to, but I’m so glad I don’t have to. Did you ever smoke cigarettes? I did, and when I quit I felt a little jealous of others but plowed forward because I knew with utter confidence that quitting was absolutely the best thing for me, and for them, and everyone, no judgment, just science.
Now I have exactly zero desire to smoke. If someone said “I smoked while I was in France” I’d think uhhhh.... yuck? I mean, was that fun? No shade but not my thing. This is a major place where at least for me I don’t feel powerLESS but I feel powerFUL over my addiction. I am a cigarette addict (as biologically anyone who is human who uses that addictive product with frequency will become) and I have zero desire to smoke. Zero. I don’t envy anyone who smokes, not in France once, or shivering at midnight outside on their porch, or on a smoke break, not. At. All. I don’t begrudge people smoke breaks either because thank god I don’t have to do that. I hate the smell and the effect and the pervasive industry of smoking.
I feel the same way about alcohol. Total lack of envy for alcohol users whether they are so called “normies” or recovery one off revisit orbs or active alcoholics.
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