Shame
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Join Date: Apr 2016
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Hi fini, yes I'm fine.
I'm on the October class and I'm on day 9 still not drinking forever. Well when I say forever I mean until the end of my life. Maybe if I die soon then I won't be waiting so long. But no actually I don't miss it at all.
In fact I've just made it into an aphorism: To not drink forever is easier than forever trying not to drink.
Yes good isn't it but that's not surprising as I've been working as an aphorism maker. It's pretty hard work - minimum wage, zero hours 60 aphorisms a day or you get a warning. You must remember people are desperate for these jobs and the pressure to come up with aphorisms is intense. I'm thinking of striking out on my own and going freelance with an aphorism start up company. I had an appointment at the bank to get a loan and I could tell by how bewildered they looked that they were really interested. They even got the security guard to escort me out the building.
So yes it's all good. I really don't want to drink but that's not unusual whenever I stop. But what always happens is that I'll get a thought in my head and it'll fester and the inevitable will happen. But not this time, I won't let it take root. I've stopped forever.
I bet you regret asking now fini.
How's it going with you?
I'm on the October class and I'm on day 9 still not drinking forever. Well when I say forever I mean until the end of my life. Maybe if I die soon then I won't be waiting so long. But no actually I don't miss it at all.
In fact I've just made it into an aphorism: To not drink forever is easier than forever trying not to drink.
Yes good isn't it but that's not surprising as I've been working as an aphorism maker. It's pretty hard work - minimum wage, zero hours 60 aphorisms a day or you get a warning. You must remember people are desperate for these jobs and the pressure to come up with aphorisms is intense. I'm thinking of striking out on my own and going freelance with an aphorism start up company. I had an appointment at the bank to get a loan and I could tell by how bewildered they looked that they were really interested. They even got the security guard to escort me out the building.
So yes it's all good. I really don't want to drink but that's not unusual whenever I stop. But what always happens is that I'll get a thought in my head and it'll fester and the inevitable will happen. But not this time, I won't let it take root. I've stopped forever.
I bet you regret asking now fini.
How's it going with you?
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Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 18
I'm naturally a loner who now and again wants to join in. But you can't turn it off and on. But what else is there? All of my adult life my gateway to other people has been through drinking.
Hi, Tap. I wanted to come back to this point because it resonated with me. I have two weeks sober this go-round (several stretches of 1-10 months for the last 6 years). Like Dee and Least, I drank to avoid my feelings, and if I can narrow it down to the most prevalent albatross, it has been anger, a kind of subdued rage over people’s inactivity or weakness in the past. Like you, or most of us, there was always an ostensible reason to drink, and a powerful one of those handy reasons was to socialize. If I really drill into that one, I had to numb myself a little to convince myself and others I liked being around them or liked who I was. I was primarily a home drinker, sipping on lots of wine at night, but recently had started to go out with a group of co-workers, which made me feel accepted into a group at a new and difficult job; however, the primary impetus was still not to feel. I’m open to feeling now and picking through those feelings like a kid at the dentist’s prize box, but I’m at a loss for how to reset with my new group of friends. I’m not sure if you’re feeling any of the same since you wrote this while boozing, but if you’re feeling like a loner without the booze, maybe it helps to know I am too. I’m in your corner, Tap. Have a great day.
Hi, Tap. I wanted to come back to this point because it resonated with me. I have two weeks sober this go-round (several stretches of 1-10 months for the last 6 years). Like Dee and Least, I drank to avoid my feelings, and if I can narrow it down to the most prevalent albatross, it has been anger, a kind of subdued rage over people’s inactivity or weakness in the past. Like you, or most of us, there was always an ostensible reason to drink, and a powerful one of those handy reasons was to socialize. If I really drill into that one, I had to numb myself a little to convince myself and others I liked being around them or liked who I was. I was primarily a home drinker, sipping on lots of wine at night, but recently had started to go out with a group of co-workers, which made me feel accepted into a group at a new and difficult job; however, the primary impetus was still not to feel. I’m open to feeling now and picking through those feelings like a kid at the dentist’s prize box, but I’m at a loss for how to reset with my new group of friends. I’m not sure if you’re feeling any of the same since you wrote this while boozing, but if you’re feeling like a loner without the booze, maybe it helps to know I am too. I’m in your corner, Tap. Have a great day.
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no tap, i don't regret asking. at all.
60 aphorisms a day is a bit much, i agree.
i set myself the task of 100 haikus this year, and think i have written 3. but, haha, there are two months left in the year, so this should be a cinch
yes. not drinking forever is much easier than forever trying not to drink. you got it. makes missing it or not missing it completely irrelevant. but just a heads up a bout that....good to have a "plan", or a "tool" or a "method" in case a moment or four arrives where you miss it, slightly or intensely or somewhere in between.
60 aphorisms a day is a bit much, i agree.
i set myself the task of 100 haikus this year, and think i have written 3. but, haha, there are two months left in the year, so this should be a cinch
yes. not drinking forever is much easier than forever trying not to drink. you got it. makes missing it or not missing it completely irrelevant. but just a heads up a bout that....good to have a "plan", or a "tool" or a "method" in case a moment or four arrives where you miss it, slightly or intensely or somewhere in between.
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Hi fini I'm not sure I get you about missing it. I'm really unknowledgable about all this. What do you mean about a plan?
All I've got is that I've finished drinking which when you get down to it isn't very much I suppose.
Hello Melsbells thanks, we agree on an awful lot. It could be me writing that.
Yes, in essence I still feel the same as in the earlier drinking post. It's then I started to find some sort of clarity, maybe.
It's good you've got a new bunch of friends. You don't have to come out and say, "hello, this is the new me," like it's some big unveiling.
One other thing, I really like Prevalent Albatross - not so much the later stuff but definitely the 1st three albums.
All I've got is that I've finished drinking which when you get down to it isn't very much I suppose.
Hello Melsbells thanks, we agree on an awful lot. It could be me writing that.
Yes, in essence I still feel the same as in the earlier drinking post. It's then I started to find some sort of clarity, maybe.
It's good you've got a new bunch of friends. You don't have to come out and say, "hello, this is the new me," like it's some big unveiling.
One other thing, I really like Prevalent Albatross - not so much the later stuff but definitely the 1st three albums.
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Join Date: Dec 2014
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I'm unsure if you are doing anything except not drinking and posting here but,either way I'm going to caution you about getting too 'cocky' at only 9 days. While that is a great achievement,I suppose (was for me lol), when I got too complacent in early recovery, I drank soon thereafter. Like clockwork..
Edit: again...I'm just going by MY recovery 'circular thinking/actions' you may very well be just fine. Lol
Edit: again...I'm just going by MY recovery 'circular thinking/actions' you may very well be just fine. Lol
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Hi Don'tRemember, thanks,
yes I've got nothing but not drinking. That's my only strategy. I think the what you call cockiness - well it is cockiness - is an essential factor though. If I'm certain that I'm never drinking again then I'm not opening the door to inner debate. And all my previous experience shows that that's my downfall.
So it has to beyond question that I'm never going to drink again. I know that just trying my best will at some point fail because I'll reason myself into drinking again. Maybe another plan might cast doubt on what I've decided is certain.
So if I come back saying how I've been drinking all weekend then what would I have lost? Anyway, I'm just going on to Amazon to check out their drawing boards.
yes I've got nothing but not drinking. That's my only strategy. I think the what you call cockiness - well it is cockiness - is an essential factor though. If I'm certain that I'm never drinking again then I'm not opening the door to inner debate. And all my previous experience shows that that's my downfall.
So it has to beyond question that I'm never going to drink again. I know that just trying my best will at some point fail because I'll reason myself into drinking again. Maybe another plan might cast doubt on what I've decided is certain.
So if I come back saying how I've been drinking all weekend then what would I have lost? Anyway, I'm just going on to Amazon to check out their drawing boards.
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“Hi fini I'm not sure I get you about missing it. I'm really unknowledgable about all this. What do you mean about a plan?
All I've got is that I've finished drinking which when you get down to it isn't very much I suppose. “
the part about “missing it”is in reference to you mentioning that you really don’t want to drink.
there might come a time that you will want to drink. what then?
what happened in the past when you wanted to?
i get it about the no-debate.
nevertheless, my history includes drinking when i wanted to and drinking when i didn’t want to. don’t know if that happened to you.
All I've got is that I've finished drinking which when you get down to it isn't very much I suppose. “
the part about “missing it”is in reference to you mentioning that you really don’t want to drink.
there might come a time that you will want to drink. what then?
what happened in the past when you wanted to?
i get it about the no-debate.
nevertheless, my history includes drinking when i wanted to and drinking when i didn’t want to. don’t know if that happened to you.
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Dee and fini.
Everytime I've ever started drinking again after being sober has been a deliberate choice. Won't keeping a plan in mind in the event of making that deliberate choice already be already opening the door a little to making that deliberate choice? It's all a bit circular.
fini, also I misunderstood "missing it". I thought it was an alcohol term like missing a target. Yes if I miss it what do I do? I want to kill it straight away. Don't let it take root.
But if I still want to drink then what can I do? I don't think there's anyway of overruling myself. Or is there?
Everytime I've ever started drinking again after being sober has been a deliberate choice. Won't keeping a plan in mind in the event of making that deliberate choice already be already opening the door a little to making that deliberate choice? It's all a bit circular.
fini, also I misunderstood "missing it". I thought it was an alcohol term like missing a target. Yes if I miss it what do I do? I want to kill it straight away. Don't let it take root.
But if I still want to drink then what can I do? I don't think there's anyway of overruling myself. Or is there?
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So you won't carry an umbrella in case carrying the umbrella makes it rain? 
A lot of people don't want to make recovery action plans - it makes it too real maybe...or it extinguishes that last tiny spark of 'maybe I can making drinking work'.
I'm not saying those are your thoughts - I have no idea.
I think plans work - someday you'll be presented with either the opportunity or the desire to drink, or both.
I think forewarned is forearmed - but it's not my recovery Tap
D
A lot of people don't want to make recovery action plans - it makes it too real maybe...or it extinguishes that last tiny spark of 'maybe I can making drinking work'.
I'm not saying those are your thoughts - I have no idea.
I think plans work - someday you'll be presented with either the opportunity or the desire to drink, or both.
I think forewarned is forearmed - but it's not my recovery Tap
D
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Originally Posted by taplow 
Dee and fini.
Everytime I've ever started drinking again after being sober has been a deliberate choice. Won't keeping a plan in mind in the event of making that deliberate choice already be already opening the door a little to making that deliberate choice? It's all a bit circular.
fini, also I misunderstood "missing it". I thought it was an alcohol term like missing a target. Yes if I miss it what do I do? I want to kill it straight away. Don't let it take root.
But if I still want to drink then what can I do? I don't think there's anyway of overruling myself. Or is there?
Everytime I've ever started drinking again after being sober has been a deliberate choice. Won't keeping a plan in mind in the event of making that deliberate choice already be already opening the door a little to making that deliberate choice? It's all a bit circular.
fini, also I misunderstood "missing it". I thought it was an alcohol term like missing a target. Yes if I miss it what do I do? I want to kill it straight away. Don't let it take root.
But if I still want to drink then what can I do? I don't think there's anyway of overruling myself. Or is there?
first off, not every time i started drinking again was a deliberate choice, meaning, to me, that i did not sit there, consider the pros and cons, whether i should or should not, and then made a decision.
(i realize many people feel they always had and have choice and that i am fooling myself...be that as it may, my experience was not that.)
so, okay, you make a deliberate choice each time you go back.
well then, yes, it is logical to just make that one-time decision to never make that choice again.
then, indeed, you need nothing else.
of course you might find, like others before you, that this iron-clad decision to never drink again shuts down any possible debating, but in spite of all that, you might find yourself drinking again. has happened to some. me included.
but let’s not project.
and yes, i see what you mean about the making of a plan being a not-entirely-shut door.
your question “but if i still want to drink what can i do?” is what plans or methods or techniques are for.
i like this question: ”I don't think there's anyway of overruling myself. Or is there?” a lot.
some thoughts: don’t we all overrule ourselves all day long? i do
isn’t that what growing up, being a “moral” decent human being requires?
question then is: what/who is this “Self” that another “Self”would overrule?
diverging: if you were to hang out with AVRT threads and posts and RR , you would find the concept of Self, the authentic you, so to speak, and Beast. your Self overrules Beast.
maybe hang out there some and get the lowdown, as i am not really familiar and likely mis-representing.
if you were to read the AA Big Book, you would find that the suggested solution to your question is to develop a relationship with a power greater than yourself which will remove the mental obsession. okay, it’s a bit more complex, but that is the gist. however, that solution is for those who have lost power of choice in taking that first drink, which is not where you say you’re at.
if you were to go to SMART (google it), you’d find another offering(i don’t know anything about it, other than that they have a structured meeting format and facilitators)
these are examples of what is meant by plans or programs or methods. not just for stopping drinking but for re-making life such that drinking again becomes “unnecessary”.
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Morning, Tap. You know, Prevalent Albatross has now become too mainstream for me as well. Like you, I also don’t have much of a plan other than reading here and a couple of other places in the morning and the evening. This past week has been a challenging one at work, and I’ve noticed that without some time to really bookend my day, I’ve had more thoughts about trying moderation- hey, maybe beer is ok? Perhaps vodka and tonic is actually the anti-malarial I need living here in New England!
I think it’s hard for people around me to see that I have a problem, even family. I know, however, that the frequency with which I think about alcohol and my relationship with it is not normal. Additionally, I have a sort of prim and proper look, I believe the term now is resting bitch face. When people find out I kick back with few dinks and crack some jokes, it goes a long way. I’ve used it as a crutch and now I have to figure out how to hobble along without it. There’s a sort of finality that attending a meeting has that, if I’m honest, I’m just not ready for, or on another level I might think out of pride I don’t need. Again, I’m not sure if you feel the same, but I know I’ve been here enough to look at Dee and Least and others and realize they’ve done it and I haven’t.
I’m hoping your day goes smoothly. I’ve got nothing but a big slice of empathy and good thoughts over here in your corner.
I think it’s hard for people around me to see that I have a problem, even family. I know, however, that the frequency with which I think about alcohol and my relationship with it is not normal. Additionally, I have a sort of prim and proper look, I believe the term now is resting bitch face. When people find out I kick back with few dinks and crack some jokes, it goes a long way. I’ve used it as a crutch and now I have to figure out how to hobble along without it. There’s a sort of finality that attending a meeting has that, if I’m honest, I’m just not ready for, or on another level I might think out of pride I don’t need. Again, I’m not sure if you feel the same, but I know I’ve been here enough to look at Dee and Least and others and realize they’ve done it and I haven’t.
I’m hoping your day goes smoothly. I’ve got nothing but a big slice of empathy and good thoughts over here in your corner.
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Thanks for the comments.
I'd love something to overrule a deliberate decision. But what? I'm not so sure about staying sober as I might seem. I'd love a plan, I just don't understand it.
I've nothing to do today - no work, I needed the day off for plumbing purposes. The thought of drinking entered my head for the first time this morning. I've beaten it down though. I've held the chair in front of the roaring lion.
The deliberate decision I spoke of isn't some act of rebellion though. I always do what I want. I never do anything else. If I want to go left, I go left. I never overrule myself and go right. I'm the one who does the overruling as well as the overruled.
When I say I make deliberate decisions to drink I just mean that the thoughts become stronger and stronger until they replace whatever course of action was there before. There's no big tussle between two opponents. I just make bad choices.
To ask what the self is fini, well we're in deep territory now. I don't think there's an impartial commander there assessing both sides, there are just thoughts. Those thoughts are me; I am what I think.
Even so I'll look up the two suggestions you made fini. Maybe that can be the umbrella I'm saving for a rainy day.
Melsbells I agree with an awful lot of what you say on this and your previous post. As I said before, I feel like I could have written them. And thanks for the good thoughts, I'm sending mine over to you.
Also we even think the same about Prevelant Albatross. I think it all started to go wrong on the legendary Mothballs tour when the singer (the one with the hunchback) accidentally set fire to his trousers on stage. The crowd thought it was deliberate and went crazy and so the band forced him to keep it in the act compelling them ever after to only play gigs near hospitals with A&E departments. Incidentally it's widely believed that this is what inspired their, let's say "interesting" songs "Asbestos Jockstrap" and "3rd Degree Genitals."
I'd love something to overrule a deliberate decision. But what? I'm not so sure about staying sober as I might seem. I'd love a plan, I just don't understand it.
I've nothing to do today - no work, I needed the day off for plumbing purposes. The thought of drinking entered my head for the first time this morning. I've beaten it down though. I've held the chair in front of the roaring lion.
The deliberate decision I spoke of isn't some act of rebellion though. I always do what I want. I never do anything else. If I want to go left, I go left. I never overrule myself and go right. I'm the one who does the overruling as well as the overruled.
When I say I make deliberate decisions to drink I just mean that the thoughts become stronger and stronger until they replace whatever course of action was there before. There's no big tussle between two opponents. I just make bad choices.
To ask what the self is fini, well we're in deep territory now. I don't think there's an impartial commander there assessing both sides, there are just thoughts. Those thoughts are me; I am what I think.
Even so I'll look up the two suggestions you made fini. Maybe that can be the umbrella I'm saving for a rainy day.
Melsbells I agree with an awful lot of what you say on this and your previous post. As I said before, I feel like I could have written them. And thanks for the good thoughts, I'm sending mine over to you.
Also we even think the same about Prevelant Albatross. I think it all started to go wrong on the legendary Mothballs tour when the singer (the one with the hunchback) accidentally set fire to his trousers on stage. The crowd thought it was deliberate and went crazy and so the band forced him to keep it in the act compelling them ever after to only play gigs near hospitals with A&E departments. Incidentally it's widely believed that this is what inspired their, let's say "interesting" songs "Asbestos Jockstrap" and "3rd Degree Genitals."
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