Can a Method Work for You if You Don't Believe It Can Work?
 

Just a philosophical point, not trying to start any fights. Hopefully it won't turn into one.

As I continuously self-assess, weighing my options for self-improvement and permanent sobriety I contemplate the things I think will be helpful and the things I don't think will be helpful. So this thought occurs to me: can a method/technique/regimen/program/whateveryouwanttocallit work for a person even if they don't believe it will work?

Can meditation be helpful for someone who doesn't believe it will be helpful?
Can AVRT be helpful to someone who doesn't believe it will work?
Can working the steps be helpful to someone who doesn't believe in the steps?
Can CBT/DBT work for someone who doesn't believe in CBT/DBT?

What's the balance between fake-it-til-you-make-it and being all-in on the path you choose to walk?

Curious what others think.
TIA!

Well I'm not exactly a one method recovery kind of guy, but I had my doubts I could ever stay sober.

The community here - people from all kinds of methods - helped convince me that I could stay sober for good.

I thank them for that, still.

To be honest, tho I'm more interested in what you think and why you asked the questions Nons :)

D

I'm not concerned as to whether permanent sobriety is attainable - I am certain that it is.

I am naturally curious, even more so after a short night's sleep and 3 cups of coffee. The topic my brain chose to ponder this morning was whether belief that a specific course of action would work is a requirement for it to work. I am not sure that it is, but I wondered what others thought.

The question involves you don't believe the method works beyond a placebo effect.

Taking for granted that the placebo effect does exist (not obvious either), if nothing else is real about the 'method' the only way a method can work is believing in it.

You would not ask the question about aspirins, or alcohol (can alcohol affect you if you don't believe in alcohol?)?

If a method does work, it will work whether you believe on it or not, as long as you follow it. The aspirin will not work if you don't take it. And it can also happen that the effect of the aspirin is different in different people. It is even possible to get even worse with the aspirin.

Conclusion: you can only answer this question by doing your own research, which is difficult for issues that resist typical scientific method for many reasons. Or by giving it a go.

I only know for sure that keeping up my drinking waiting for a miracle did not work for me (although others claim they woke up one day knowing the 'were done').

I think it's an interesting question. It probably extends well beyond the field of addiction and sobriety. Can a marriage work if it's participants don't necessarily believe in the institution? Can a business or even the country succeed if those who work within it don't believe and its mission etc? I think for me the fake it till you make it, to a certain extent, was how I worked in the beginning. I don't think I knew in my heart of hearts that I'd be able to achieve permanent sobriety. On the other hand I did know in my heart of hearts that I couldn't continue down the path I was walking.

Non, there's a question that you were asked previous threads that I'm curious about and I think might be helpful for those of us here - How long had you been sober prior to your trip to Vegas?

Hmm, the marriage and business/country examples seem off to me. Sorry, not trying to nitpick in a general sense, but those examples bring to the front important things to consider about sobriety - a marriage and a business can fail (i.e. not work) regardless of whether you yourself, i.e. a single participating person, believes in it or not.
You can be sober alone, although it's super difficult - there is no basic need for another person (theoretically, because we all know how that tends to end up). So belief in something you do/a person does, makes more of an impact since you're the only one whose opinions about progress or lack thereof ultimately matter.

My 2 cents. Interesting topic.

Can a Method Work for You if You Don't Believe It Can Work?

i think it important to look at each method and determine WHY you dont believe they will work.
i didnt think bacon was any good. then i tried it. now i LOVE bacon.

Interesting topic. I say the answer is both, yes and no, depending on which of the examples you give.

Meditation, I think would not work because the person's heart wouldn't be in it and it takes concentrated effort to stop the mental chatter. If you're sitting there thinking to yourself it won't work then it won't.

The steps, I think are a different animal if they are followed correctly. In this case I think the heart would follow the mind because there is a clear method given.

I don't know enough about the other two mentioned to comment. Overall, it really depends on how much of a method is in place for the mind to follow in 'quantitative' or objective way.

Just my thoughts.

SC

I believe that I can try something that I may not believe in, in order to figure out if it will work for me or not. I believe in my investigative abilities to reach a sound conclusion as a result of my research.

I am not sure if I believed the transition from diapers to big boy pants would work or not, but that has turned out well.

At one time I didn't believe that I could stay sober. I still don't know the answer to that question, but with 16 years of successful research, I believe that I can.

going from crawling to walking,too. i didnt know if walkin would be better than crawlin but gave it a shot . fell a few times, tripped here and there, but evenually came to likin walking over crawling.

Do you believe that you can be happier reducing/quitting your substance use than you can be by continuing it as is? When you can answer that question in the affirmative, then you can know that you will never have to feel an “uncontrollable urge” to use problematically again.

All you need to do to change your substance use is believe it’ll genuinely be worth changing. You need to believe that a change offers you the chance of greater happiness, and you will then persist on this new path if you believe it’s a viable possibility, one you truly value. Building this new preference starts the same way you built the old preference. No one gets addicted to a substance unless they have learned it does something for them.

Romans 12:2: "Don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed in your thinking."

My head is now spinning considering all the factors involved in answering this question.

Let's create a corollary to the question to help clarify. "Can a method fail if someone believes in it?" We can answer this through actual observation, and in any recovery program you may have participated in, the answer is an unequivocal, "Yes!" Statistically, the odds for recovery are not a given in any method. I suppose you can say the person didn't really believe in the method, even though he continues to swear by it. But that is only conjecture. People fail.

I think there is a greater issue at stake here.

Some methods are doomed to fail with certain people, while others are a much better fit and provide a much greater chance of success if they match an individual's philosophical disposition.

All recovery methods are philosophical in nature, so believing (or not believing) in a method is going to strongly influence the outcome whether a particular method has any scientific basis in fact or not.

A bigger factor than the method is believing that at least one method "out there" exists that will work, and that success in recovery involves an attitude and determination that is more important than method.

Is it possible to train your mind through repetition as you do with muscle memory? If you repeat the process enough times will you forget that you don't believe it?

That reminds me of that time my dad took the training wheels off my bike. I was terrified and figured there was no way I'd make it. He gave me a little push and off I went, I could ride the bike from there on out.

makes me think of the guy in the airplane 10,000 feet above the ground.
he has a contraption strapped to his back.
they open the big side door of the plane which opens into vast expanses of nothing.

and he says - so let me get this straight. you want me to jump out of a perfectly good airplane, 10,000 above the surface of the earth and TRUST that the tablecloth you stuffed in a backpack is going to safely and gently land me on the ground?

at that crossroads moment, it won't matter how many others have jumped out into the sky ahead of him, or how many have been reported touching down safely on terra firma. it won't matter what guarantees they give out.

he has two choices:

1. Jump
2. Don't Jump

however the ONLY way he will know for certain IF "they" are right and if this is a perfectly safe and sane action to take is to......jump.

isn't part of this question another? about how much effort you are likely to put into a method/plan/program that you don't believe will "work"?
the question as you posed it seems to imply that "belief" is the crucial factor, but i don't think that's so.
belief about the efficacy, though, might very much influence your involvement with applying the m/p/p, and thus might seem to be the determining factor.

I sincerely hope sobriety does not depend on “belief”. The various paths to sobriety are at best useful tools. With hard work any one of them can work and equally any one can fail. It’s about hard work and commitment, not belief.

I don't know, but the question has certainly got me thinking.

I think the only definite is that if we don't put a drink in our mouth we won't drink. Other than that it is complicated.

And what happens when you do believe in a recovery method, use it but fail to remain sober. Do you then no longer believe in it?

:dunno:

I guess I thought AA would keep me sober because I saw it working for others. Also, I remembered this article:

"Some of the most important brain systems impaired in addiction are those in the prefrontal cortex that regulate social cognition, self-monitoring, moral behavior and other processes that the AA-type approach seems to target." (4 March 2009; Neuroscience: "Rethinking rehab", Jim Schnabel, Nature 458).

Nons, don't over think this. Sobriety is achieved through actions, not thoughts.

I tried all kinds of things. I didn't believe the steps would work, but I was willing to try. Luckily, I had profound effects!