Slips, Trips and Skips
Not Alone
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: South East UK
Posts: 1,513
Originally Posted by tomsteve 
beings how ya said this earlier:
I've been to my GP before, one that has a special interest in addiction and mental health. They meant well but the taper I was on was useless
ya lost me.
ive heard addicts that have been sober for some time say it wasnt the taper that was the problem- it was themselves. the tapers would have worked if they worked it.
ya gotta make a choice- do ya want to get clean or not?
if ya want to get clean, are ya willing to go to ANY lengths for that?
I've been to my GP before, one that has a special interest in addiction and mental health. They meant well but the taper I was on was useless
ya lost me.
ive heard addicts that have been sober for some time say it wasnt the taper that was the problem- it was themselves. the tapers would have worked if they worked it.
ya gotta make a choice- do ya want to get clean or not?
if ya want to get clean, are ya willing to go to ANY lengths for that?
I told the GP how much I was using and how frequently and I started on the same amount I was taking. This was dropped significantly every two weeks despite me saying I was feeling like crap and basically going into withdrawal during the few days before my appointments. If I'd have been listened to and my dosage was dropped more gradually (like the NHS guidelines say it should have been) then I may have seen that taper through.
I get your point though. If I'd really wanted that taper to work I could have made it work. I could have been more open with the doctor about how scared I was to drop the dose. I could have told them more than once how bad I felt. Or I could have just dealt with the withdrawals.
I'm going to give my self-designed taper my best shot and put as much effort into getting clean that I do into my using. If I fail then off to the methadone clinic I go to get the state sanctioned amber nectar.
Natom
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 1,598
Natom, it possible you’ll not be able to kick by yourself. You’re dancing around inpatient big time, which is understandable because I spent two nights in inpatient then hopped the wall. But then I at least committed to partial hospitalization. Now I only struggle with booze (“only” lol).
Jobs support rehab. The ones that don’t aren’t good jobs. And if it’s money, then would you rather be broke or dead. And if dead doesn’t matter, think about what your death would do to others.
Where are you located again?
Jobs support rehab. The ones that don’t aren’t good jobs. And if it’s money, then would you rather be broke or dead. And if dead doesn’t matter, think about what your death would do to others.
Where are you located again?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by Natom
I was feeling like crap and basically going into withdrawal during the few days before my appointments. If I'd have been listened to and my dosage was dropped more gradually (like the NHS guidelines say it should have been) then I may have seen that taper through.
I get your point though. If I'd really wanted that taper to work I could have made it work. I could have been more open with the doctor about how scared I was to drop the dose. I could have told them more than once how bad I felt. Or I could have just dealt with the withdrawals.
I'm going to give my self-designed taper my best shot and put as much effort into getting clean that I do into my using. If I fail then off to the methadone clinic I go to get the state sanctioned amber nectar.
Natom
I get your point though. If I'd really wanted that taper to work I could have made it work. I could have been more open with the doctor about how scared I was to drop the dose. I could have told them more than once how bad I felt. Or I could have just dealt with the withdrawals.
I'm going to give my self-designed taper my best shot and put as much effort into getting clean that I do into my using. If I fail then off to the methadone clinic I go to get the state sanctioned amber nectar.
Natom
that dont happen for any addict or alcoholic. the first few days or weeks can be a straight up bitch. thats just a fact. it should be expected. our bodies are trying to get rid of the poison.
it does get better though. if it didnt there wouldnt be any clean and sober people here.
its just necessary to suck it up and go through it.
personally i was a wasted wreck for quite some time. what kept me going was fear and faith. fear of what would happen if i didnt go through it and faith in those that went before me sayin it WOULD get better if i worked for it.
Not Alone
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: South East UK
Posts: 1,513
Originally Posted by BeABetterMan
Natom, it possible you’ll not be able to kick by yourself. You’re dancing around inpatient big time, which is understandable because I spent two nights in inpatient then hopped the wall. But then I at least committed to partial hospitalization. Now I only struggle with booze (“only” lol).
Jobs support rehab. The ones that don’t aren’t good jobs. And if it’s money, then would you rather be broke or dead. And if dead doesn’t matter, think about what your death would do to others.
Where are you located again?
Jobs support rehab. The ones that don’t aren’t good jobs. And if it’s money, then would you rather be broke or dead. And if dead doesn’t matter, think about what your death would do to others.
Where are you located again?
I'm gonna try and do this taper with as much support as I can muster. If I can't do it then I'll do an outpatient program. Then, and only then, will I consider doing an inpatient program.
Edit: I'm in the UK.
Natom
Not Alone
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: South East UK
Posts: 1,513
Originally Posted by tomsteve
it reads like ya want the sunshine,rainbows, and sparkle fartin unicorns early recovery.
that dont happen for any addict or alcoholic. the first few days or weeks can be a straight up bitch. thats just a fact. it should be expected. our bodies are trying to get rid of the poison.
it does get better though. if it didnt there wouldnt be any clean and sober people here.
its just necessary to suck it up and go through it.
personally i was a wasted wreck for quite some time. what kept me going was fear and faith. fear of what would happen if i didnt go through it and faith in those that went before me sayin it WOULD get better if i worked for it.
that dont happen for any addict or alcoholic. the first few days or weeks can be a straight up bitch. thats just a fact. it should be expected. our bodies are trying to get rid of the poison.
it does get better though. if it didnt there wouldnt be any clean and sober people here.
its just necessary to suck it up and go through it.
personally i was a wasted wreck for quite some time. what kept me going was fear and faith. fear of what would happen if i didnt go through it and faith in those that went before me sayin it WOULD get better if i worked for it.
I've been there before. I've been that nervous wreck. I've hit multiple rock bottoms that have been lower each time. The one thing that's different from the previous times is my mental health. My mental health is much worse than it was years ago. If I had to describe it in court I'd describe it as 'fragile'. It feels like I'm walking a tightrope that gets more precarious by the day and I'm waiting for the day that it snaps.
My addict justification is why should I have to go through any pain and discomfort if I can alleviate it a bit? The difference between tapering and just going cold turkey is significant. I've already decided I'm not going cold turkey again, it's just not going to happen. But, I don't think I can deal with one more failed taper. It's all or nothing for me now.
I haven't given this my best shot. I haven't tried my hardest or put all my effort into getting clean. I've spoken about it but I haven't done it. This is my last shot at doing it and I'm going to put everything I've got into it. And at the end of it if I've been successful then fantastic, onwards and upwards.
If I haven't been successful then it will be rehab or methadone.
Natom
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Tn
Posts: 3,043
We all want you to get clean and stay clean, amigo, but you either seem to have all the answers as to what you need, notwithstanding the fact that you're still addicted to opiates, or you throw up impediments as to why certain suggestions (e.g. 90 in 90) won't work for you.
This is life-threatening - not just quality of life-threatening.
You acknowledge that you don't have long and that you're still using a substantial multiple of recommended doses.
I respectfully suggest that you quit the internal and external debates and follow the rather thoughtful recommendations made on this thread (and on these forums generally) and try to get help.
In other words, quit trying to orchestrate your recovery yourself.
If you knew the answers, you could "teach the course", so to speak, but you don't know how to get clean.
We appreciate your bringing this matter up and we wish you much success.
This is life-threatening - not just quality of life-threatening.
You acknowledge that you don't have long and that you're still using a substantial multiple of recommended doses.
I respectfully suggest that you quit the internal and external debates and follow the rather thoughtful recommendations made on this thread (and on these forums generally) and try to get help.
In other words, quit trying to orchestrate your recovery yourself.
If you knew the answers, you could "teach the course", so to speak, but you don't know how to get clean.
We appreciate your bringing this matter up and we wish you much success.
Not Alone
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: South East UK
Posts: 1,513
Originally Posted by SoberCAH
We all want you to get clean and stay clean, amigo, but you either seem to have all the answers as to what you need, notwithstanding the fact that you're still addicted to opiates, or you throw up impediments as to why certain suggestions (e.g. 90 in 90) won't work for you.
This is life-threatening - not just quality of life-threatening.
You acknowledge that you don't have long and that you're still using a substantial multiple of recommended doses.
I respectfully suggest that you quit the internal and external debates and follow the rather thoughtful recommendations made on this thread (and on these forums generally) and try to get help.
In other words, quit trying to orchestrate your recovery yourself.
If you knew the answers, you could "teach the course", so to speak, but you don't know how to get clean.
We appreciate your bringing this matter up and we wish you much success.
This is life-threatening - not just quality of life-threatening.
You acknowledge that you don't have long and that you're still using a substantial multiple of recommended doses.
I respectfully suggest that you quit the internal and external debates and follow the rather thoughtful recommendations made on this thread (and on these forums generally) and try to get help.
In other words, quit trying to orchestrate your recovery yourself.
If you knew the answers, you could "teach the course", so to speak, but you don't know how to get clean.
We appreciate your bringing this matter up and we wish you much success.
I think that every recovering addict and alcoholic would love to be able to quit their job, attend an inpatient rehab and do 90 meetings in 90 days. However, for the large majority of people that's not possible. Because no matter how badly someone wants to get clean and/or sober they have to work with what they've got.
The waiting list for a government inpatient rehab is one year and if I paid for private treatment I'd have somewhere really nice to live....for a couple of months. After which I'd be homeless. If I wait for government rehab then the likelihood is that I'll be dead before I'm admitted. So neither of those choices are really worth pursuing.
I'm working with the 2/3 options I do have which is to taper off by myself or go the outpatient route via my local doctors surgery. The outpatient route has no waiting list and is easily accessible but would most likely mean I'd lose my job due to the medications they prescribe. Losing my job would mean losing my house.
So forgive me for seeming like I'm trying to 'orchestrate' my own recovery but what worked for you may not work for me. My life isn't the same as yours and I may be working with completely different financial and social constraints that you have absolutely no idea about.
Your post is bang on the money but I'm working with what I have and the options that are available to me.
Thanks,
Natom
Sobriety is Traditional
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Orcas Island, Washington
Posts: 9,066
Tom, I apologize for saying two to three months was a long time to continue using. It sounds like you have a good plan. I do think meetings are very important.
Please keep posting!
Please keep posting!
Not Alone
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: South East UK
Posts: 1,513
Originally Posted by Coldfusion
Tom, I apologize for saying two to three months was a long time to continue using. It sounds like you have a good plan. I do think meetings are very important.
Please keep posting!
Please keep posting!
The whole thing with a taper, especially when on prescription meds like I am, is to drop their usage gradually over a period of time. The official guidelines for the NHS in my country is to drop 10-20% of the original dose every 1-2 weeks until you get to 1/3 of the original dose. Once you get to that point you're supposed to drop 5% per week until you're off it completely.
I sat down and figured that out and if I followed those guidelines I'd still be using for the next 6 months. I think 7-8 weeks is doable. I've got the pills and I've just got lots of vitamins and supplements that were recommended to me that I'm going to start doing when I start the taper.
I agree with the meetings. I need all the support I can get for when my feelings start coming to the surface.
Natom
Not Alone
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: South East UK
Posts: 1,513
I'm starting my taper tomorrow and everything is organised. Even in active addiction I'm very particular about things being organised and 'correct' so I've planned everything down to the last detail.
I have the exact amount of pills that I require for the 7 week taper I've planned. I've planned my usage for each day of the next 7 weeks, incorporating a dosage reduction every 7 days. I've also purchased some specific vitamins and supplements, some of which I researched and some that were recommended.
I've got some multivitamins, L-Tyrosine, potassium, calcium and magnesium, vitamin C, vitamin B6, omega 3 and green tea extract. I've also got the standard paracetamol and ibuprofen (tylenol and motrin) for when I get to the lower doses. I've read that the potassium supplement is supposed to be very helpful for restless leg syndrome and that the L-Tyrosine and B6 are both good for energy and combating fatigue. On previous cold turkeys and taper attempts I've struggled with fatigue and energy levels so I hope the supplements help.
I've also been in contact with a local rehab that has a team of addiction counsellors. I e-mailed them and outlined my issues and they suggested a specific counsellor and told me what their fees were. I can't afford to see them right away so I'm planning my initial consultation for the first week in November. If all goes well then I plan on seeing them twice a month. If not then I have several other local counsellors that I can contact. I'll be incorporating NA into the next 7 weeks (and after, but I specifically need to go during this period) and plan on attending three meetings per week.
So I've planned it all out and I know that my main trigger is specific emotions combined with a feeling of loneliness and isolation. I have to make sure I stay motivated to make this change and seek help when I need to. I physically can't do another stint in rehab. I'm tired and I'm broken and I'm sick of feeling sick and tired and broken.
This is my last chance.
Natom
I have the exact amount of pills that I require for the 7 week taper I've planned. I've planned my usage for each day of the next 7 weeks, incorporating a dosage reduction every 7 days. I've also purchased some specific vitamins and supplements, some of which I researched and some that were recommended.
I've got some multivitamins, L-Tyrosine, potassium, calcium and magnesium, vitamin C, vitamin B6, omega 3 and green tea extract. I've also got the standard paracetamol and ibuprofen (tylenol and motrin) for when I get to the lower doses. I've read that the potassium supplement is supposed to be very helpful for restless leg syndrome and that the L-Tyrosine and B6 are both good for energy and combating fatigue. On previous cold turkeys and taper attempts I've struggled with fatigue and energy levels so I hope the supplements help.
I've also been in contact with a local rehab that has a team of addiction counsellors. I e-mailed them and outlined my issues and they suggested a specific counsellor and told me what their fees were. I can't afford to see them right away so I'm planning my initial consultation for the first week in November. If all goes well then I plan on seeing them twice a month. If not then I have several other local counsellors that I can contact. I'll be incorporating NA into the next 7 weeks (and after, but I specifically need to go during this period) and plan on attending three meetings per week.
So I've planned it all out and I know that my main trigger is specific emotions combined with a feeling of loneliness and isolation. I have to make sure I stay motivated to make this change and seek help when I need to. I physically can't do another stint in rehab. I'm tired and I'm broken and I'm sick of feeling sick and tired and broken.
This is my last chance.
Natom
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,424
I have no comment on the medical or taper stuff - no experience to share, no knowledge about whether what you're doing is good or not. I hope it is good and that it works out the way you plan it to.
I stand by my observation that NA seemed to do you good in the past (in it's in your user name ferpetessakes) but that's you call, Tom.
I think a lot of people here had or have a fear of feeling bad, of emotional pain - of feeling it might consume them if they don;t head it off at the pass with a hit, a drink or a pill.
I had to challenge that fear and I think you'll have to too - regardless of what method you use to get clean and sober and stay there?
I knew where the road behind me went - I had to put my faith in the road ahead and that it would take me to a better place. My faith didn't let me down.
best wishes Tom
D
I stand by my observation that NA seemed to do you good in the past (in it's in your user name ferpetessakes) but that's you call, Tom.
So I've planned it all out and I know that my main trigger is specific emotions combined with a feeling of loneliness and isolation.
I had to challenge that fear and I think you'll have to too - regardless of what method you use to get clean and sober and stay there?
I knew where the road behind me went - I had to put my faith in the road ahead and that it would take me to a better place. My faith didn't let me down.
best wishes Tom
D
Not Alone
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: South East UK
Posts: 1,513
Originally Posted by Dee74
I have no comment on the medical or taper stuff - no experience to share, no knowledge about whether what you're doing is good or not. I hope it is good and that it works out the way you plan it to.
I stand by my observation that NA seemed to do you good in the past (in it's in your user name ferpetessakes) but that's you call, Tom.
I think a lot of people here had or have a fear of feeling bad, of emotional pain - of feeling it might consume them if they don;t head it off at the pass with a hit, a drink or a pill.
I had to challenge that fear and I think you'll have to too - regardless of what method you use to get clean and sober and stay there?
I knew where the road behind me went - I had to put my faith in the road ahead and that it would take me to a better place. My faith didn't let me down.
best wishes Tom
D
I stand by my observation that NA seemed to do you good in the past (in it's in your user name ferpetessakes) but that's you call, Tom.
I think a lot of people here had or have a fear of feeling bad, of emotional pain - of feeling it might consume them if they don;t head it off at the pass with a hit, a drink or a pill.
I had to challenge that fear and I think you'll have to too - regardless of what method you use to get clean and sober and stay there?
I knew where the road behind me went - I had to put my faith in the road ahead and that it would take me to a better place. My faith didn't let me down.
best wishes Tom
D
So I have to start sorting out my mental health issues as well as my addiction otherwise I'm just heading for a fall. If I'm scared about leaving the house how can I go to a meeting or any other support group? I've started looking into my available options for counselling locally. I don't really want to go on pills (ironic, considering how much I love them) for depression or anxiety but I may have too. It's definitely worth a chat with a doctor at the very least.
It feels like there's quite a long uphill struggle ahead of me. I've got to sort out my addiction, my mental health, my physical health and all the other little issues I have. It's gonna be tough but I don't have any other options. I'm going to die at some point. Maybe tomorrow, maybe next year, maybe in 40 years time. But, I don't want to die knowing that I just spent all my time unhappy, depressed and putting myself into a hazy bubble of drugs.
Natom
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,424
it's quite a bind - can't leave the house because of mental health but the self abuse that is addiction impacts negatively on our mental health.
Different drugs of choice but I've been there.
My mental health got a lot better with recovery. I hope yours will too Tom
Keep the faith
D
Different drugs of choice but I've been there.
My mental health got a lot better with recovery. I hope yours will too Tom
Keep the faith
D
Not Alone
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: South East UK
Posts: 1,513
Originally Posted by Dee74
it's quite a bind - can't leave the house because of mental health but the self abuse that is addiction impacts negatively on our mental health.
Different drugs of choice but I've been there.
My mental health got a lot better with recovery. I hope yours will too Tom
Keep the faith
D
Different drugs of choice but I've been there.
My mental health got a lot better with recovery. I hope yours will too Tom
Keep the faith
D
Natom
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,424
You should be able to find some ideas here Tom:
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...f-respite.html (Relief and Respite)
D
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...f-respite.html (Relief and Respite)
D
Canine Welfare Advocate
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 10,962
Originally Posted by Natom
If I'm scared about leaving the house how can I go to a meeting or any other support group?
So, don't let it keep you from recovery.
Not Alone
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: South East UK
Posts: 1,513
Originally Posted by doggonecarl
Has your fear and anxiety ever kept you for scoring and using? I'm thinking not.
So, don't let it keep you from recovery.
So, don't let it keep you from recovery.
The days that I did go out and score I was using cocaine. The cocaine made me social so my anxiety was never really a noticeable issue. So in answer to your question my anxiety has never stopped me from scoring or using but that's because I literally don't have to leave the house to score. The furthest I get is the bottom of the driveway.
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