Feeling increasingly awkward attending AA
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: UK
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Thanks everyone! So many great responses. I have been doing three but will cut down to two meetings, possibly just one, for now. It's good to know it's okay doing what I'm doing, especially as they are still my favourite face-to-face groups. And no one is overly pressuring me to do more than I am, I just get that feeling you know? It's hard when you know fully well CBT tools (and in that I even include some AA stuff) are doing just fine, but that that's off-topic.
I do see how there may be value in doing the steps regardless but I also see potential for harm to mental health in some of it. With a particularly suited sponsor (for me more liberal) I might be able to see a way more clearly but I haven't really found anyone like that yet. The way I see it mental health is my biggest trigger and that's what I've worked on the most, and I don't want to rock the boat.
I do see how there may be value in doing the steps regardless but I also see potential for harm to mental health in some of it. With a particularly suited sponsor (for me more liberal) I might be able to see a way more clearly but I haven't really found anyone like that yet. The way I see it mental health is my biggest trigger and that's what I've worked on the most, and I don't want to rock the boat.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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I think the step can be harmful for some people and with some sponsors so I agree with you Tetrax, caution is always good.
The original AA and the Big Book were written geared towards men in the 1930s. "Ego deflation," is a big deal in the big book and in fact is the aim of the 5th Step. A lot people have had plenty of ego deflation, thankyouverymuch. In that way, I think the steps-with-a-sponsor thing gets it wrong for some people.
I also think that with past trauma the steps can be really harmful. The wrong sponsor can open up painful wounds and not know what they are doing and inadvertently make the past trauma even more traumatic. This is where I think a pastor/priest or therapist trained in trauma and addiction recovery is the safe place to do steps 4-9. I would never go through them with some random person in AA.
As always in life, to thine own self be true.
Congrats on your three months, Tetrax. That's so awesome.
The original AA and the Big Book were written geared towards men in the 1930s. "Ego deflation," is a big deal in the big book and in fact is the aim of the 5th Step. A lot people have had plenty of ego deflation, thankyouverymuch. In that way, I think the steps-with-a-sponsor thing gets it wrong for some people.
I also think that with past trauma the steps can be really harmful. The wrong sponsor can open up painful wounds and not know what they are doing and inadvertently make the past trauma even more traumatic. This is where I think a pastor/priest or therapist trained in trauma and addiction recovery is the safe place to do steps 4-9. I would never go through them with some random person in AA.
As always in life, to thine own self be true.
Congrats on your three months, Tetrax. That's so awesome.
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Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Minnesota
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Wow. I see fewer responses to threads where a person reports feeling suicidal. But bring up AA v. other methods of recovery and everyone perks up. I have been sober 140 days and have approached my sobriety from the start from a physical and mental health perspective. I've immersed myself in the science of what happens to our bodies when we drink, over-consume other types of sugar (startlingly similar things happen), and do other things that detract from our physical well-being. I have also delved deep into the science of trauma, genetics and other factors that can affect our mental health. The fellowship of AA has been of immense comfort to me, but I thrive on my sobriety and move further and further away from alcohol the more I learn about the devastating science of it all. If consumer alcohol were invented today, it would never be approved by the FDA, CDC or any other federal agency. Anyway, I echo what others have said - stay sober any way you can.
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This conversation comes up often in circles I run in, and here's my experience and , in AA style, suggestions based on what works for me.
All you need to be in AA is a desire to quit drinking. You've had that for 3 months!
Different people take time to get a sponsor (lots take the common advice to get one and work the steps right.this.very.minute) - I asked my first sponsor to sponsor me on day 97. She was an excellent teacher of discipline and the program (see the pp 1-164). I didn't feel comfortabe doing 4 and on with her.
My second sponsor and I worked on applying the steps to living and we literally did them (like, with a workbook and I used the spreadsheet forms for 4/5) over about my first yr sober. Her apply the spirit of the "law" to living vs a view of "obeyance" really worked for me.
Something I'll add is that you hear the expression "take what you want and leave the rest"- and, for you, perhaps that means you go on a regular schedule you choose, listen for the things that connect with you for growing in recovery (not the drunkalogues!)...and you give it plenty of time to understand what the steps are about. I couldn't possibly absorb them quickly and have kept learning the nuances and deeper meanings of even Step 1 here at almost 3.5 yr sober.
Personally, I believe that everyone can benefit from at least some of the steps- like be less selfish (see the step 11 questions p84-88) or the don't be a jerk and if you do apologize promptly ("living amends" see step 10)....basic stuff to be a good person.
Three months is awesome! It was also a very short amount of time for me to have to learn anything about recovery, from AA and other sources.
You're doing great Tetrax. I'd suggest not giving up on AA, so to speak, if there is indeed something you are gaining for it. Last thing- I was told early on to "look for the people who have what I want." I took that to mean both in AA and outside of it.
All you need to be in AA is a desire to quit drinking. You've had that for 3 months!
Different people take time to get a sponsor (lots take the common advice to get one and work the steps right.this.very.minute) - I asked my first sponsor to sponsor me on day 97. She was an excellent teacher of discipline and the program (see the pp 1-164). I didn't feel comfortabe doing 4 and on with her.
My second sponsor and I worked on applying the steps to living and we literally did them (like, with a workbook and I used the spreadsheet forms for 4/5) over about my first yr sober. Her apply the spirit of the "law" to living vs a view of "obeyance" really worked for me.
Something I'll add is that you hear the expression "take what you want and leave the rest"- and, for you, perhaps that means you go on a regular schedule you choose, listen for the things that connect with you for growing in recovery (not the drunkalogues!)...and you give it plenty of time to understand what the steps are about. I couldn't possibly absorb them quickly and have kept learning the nuances and deeper meanings of even Step 1 here at almost 3.5 yr sober.
Personally, I believe that everyone can benefit from at least some of the steps- like be less selfish (see the step 11 questions p84-88) or the don't be a jerk and if you do apologize promptly ("living amends" see step 10)....basic stuff to be a good person.
Three months is awesome! It was also a very short amount of time for me to have to learn anything about recovery, from AA and other sources.
You're doing great Tetrax. I'd suggest not giving up on AA, so to speak, if there is indeed something you are gaining for it. Last thing- I was told early on to "look for the people who have what I want." I took that to mean both in AA and outside of it.
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Join Date: Jan 2017
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As always the most important part is to always remain sober and to be content with your sobriety and life. Do what you gotta do to make that and keep
that happening.
Fundamentally recovery is about action, change, honesty and acceptance. If you’re getting that then you’re on the right track in my experience.
For some a formal sponsor-stepwork to the book is essential to get the spiritual awakening/psychic change/profound personality change required for contented sobriety in my experience. For others they can get this without such a dogmatic approach (especially if they are using and crucially applying other programs/books/philosophies etc). The crucial thing is that you get this awakenimg in my experience. How you get it doesn’t matter just that you get it.
As always it all becomes clear over time and if you keep an open-mind, remain teachable and grateful then you’re where you need to be. You get to know your own mind and what works for you once you’ve got some decent sober time under your belt.
that happening.
Fundamentally recovery is about action, change, honesty and acceptance. If you’re getting that then you’re on the right track in my experience.
For some a formal sponsor-stepwork to the book is essential to get the spiritual awakening/psychic change/profound personality change required for contented sobriety in my experience. For others they can get this without such a dogmatic approach (especially if they are using and crucially applying other programs/books/philosophies etc). The crucial thing is that you get this awakenimg in my experience. How you get it doesn’t matter just that you get it.
As always it all becomes clear over time and if you keep an open-mind, remain teachable and grateful then you’re where you need to be. You get to know your own mind and what works for you once you’ve got some decent sober time under your belt.
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Join Date: Jun 2017
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Originally Posted by Tetrax 
The way I see it mental health is my biggest trigger and that's what I've worked on the most, and I don't want to rock the boat.
Another boat thing to keep in mind is that on a cruise ship you are not required to attend or participate in any or all of the shows and activities that are offered. The crew members usually have some good insight and personal experience on which of the shows and activities that they would recommend, but the bottom line is that you get to choose. Do so when the time is right for you.
There is plenty of time because recovery is a slow boat, not a rocket ship. Take time to stand at the rail and enjoy the view and splendor that is recovery.
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^^^I love it when that happens Tetrax. And for me it has sometimes been when I have been annoyed or bored or [ ] by AA that those higher moments show up at a meeting. It's a big part of why I think it's so important to stick with the program (do the program) - or at least attend enough meetings to understand what the program IS to see if it works.
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Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Christchurch, NZ
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There is a very good reason that AA folk bang on about the 12 Steps and you will never fully understand that until you do them.
Looks scary ... Inventory, God, Amends
Feels amazing ... True freedom from alcohol in every possible sense.
You have to participate and co-operate in your own recovery to get the best results.
Sitting in meetings, tuning out. Really ??
C'mon, you're better than that.
Throwdown and actually do something about your recovery.
You'll never know what the steps can do for you if you chicken out and don't take them.
Looks scary ... Inventory, God, Amends
Feels amazing ... True freedom from alcohol in every possible sense.
You have to participate and co-operate in your own recovery to get the best results.
Sitting in meetings, tuning out. Really ??
C'mon, you're better than that.
Throwdown and actually do something about your recovery.
You'll never know what the steps can do for you if you chicken out and don't take them.
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Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 519
I do not agree that AA is a "cult" like mentality. No one is forcing you to be there, but you keep going, which I think is great.
Everyone heals differently and requires different things in order to stay sober. There is no right or wrong, as long as you don't drink! That to me is the beauty of being of alcoholic in this day and age, we have SO MANY RESOURCES at our fingertips and disposal!!!
Do you, stick it out a little longer and see if it works, try other types of meeting and programs, keep logging on and sharing here. I think it is amazing and admirable that you are so self-aware of your thinking. And by you understanding that being at the meetings makes you feel good because you are setting an example for the newcomer, wow, that in itself is already an act of service (one of the steps!).
Take care, and you'll find what works!!!
Everyone heals differently and requires different things in order to stay sober. There is no right or wrong, as long as you don't drink! That to me is the beauty of being of alcoholic in this day and age, we have SO MANY RESOURCES at our fingertips and disposal!!!
Do you, stick it out a little longer and see if it works, try other types of meeting and programs, keep logging on and sharing here. I think it is amazing and admirable that you are so self-aware of your thinking. And by you understanding that being at the meetings makes you feel good because you are setting an example for the newcomer, wow, that in itself is already an act of service (one of the steps!).
Take care, and you'll find what works!!!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by NicLin
I do not agree that AA is a "cult" like mentality.
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Originally Posted by Tetrax
Just to be clear, this is not my opinion. I just think some hardliners can do a good job of putting people off. Thanks for the rest of your post though
Yes. Well with some hindsight and some sober time I am more able to understand their position. In early sobriety though - yeah, it was pretty difficult to sit with my emotions.
Anyone who spends any amount of time in AA meetings or on this site will hear stories of death and destruction due to alcohol. Horrible disfigurements. Homelessness. Hopelessness. I think old-timers in AA have seen a lot. I only went for a few months and I myself heard a lot of scary stories, a few people who died due to relapses, broken families, jail time, accidents where a drunk driver killed people, illnesses caused by drinking.
AA is not a light-hearted social club. Those hardliners know the Solution and they want you to know it too. Some of us need to hear it a few thousand times before it sinks in.
Maybe try to see it from their perspective. Or even better, ask them how they came to AA.
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I'd add to that comment that sometimes the gentler, kinder "we're glad you are here" needs to be replaced by the "you won't be here if you don't get sober." There is a balance- but truly? It's up to us whether we get "put off" by one or a handful of people. And somehow, some way, we WILL die if we don't stop. It might be going down in a flaming car wreck or getting the electric chair - it might "just" be dying of liver failure or a heart attack or....because of years of alcoholic drinking - fates that might have been VERY different if we had stopped. Whichever way, dead is dead. Not many obituaries clarify that the "blunt trauma to the head" COD was actually the result of falling down a flight of stairs hammered.
Learning the history and context of AA also helped me "get" some of the seemingly or actually abrasive comments. For example, there was no real treatment for alcoholism in any form when Bill and Dr Bob somehow got together and began AA. Sanitariums, what sounds like a mere handful of drs countrywide...not much in the way of finding hope or lasting sobriety. People who got sober 30 or 40 years ago? Still not many options for group support or programs. There are other examples of all this but putting things in the context of then and now can be really important in seeking to understand what others are saying - from their ESH (experience, strength and hope).
Learning the history and context of AA also helped me "get" some of the seemingly or actually abrasive comments. For example, there was no real treatment for alcoholism in any form when Bill and Dr Bob somehow got together and began AA. Sanitariums, what sounds like a mere handful of drs countrywide...not much in the way of finding hope or lasting sobriety. People who got sober 30 or 40 years ago? Still not many options for group support or programs. There are other examples of all this but putting things in the context of then and now can be really important in seeking to understand what others are saying - from their ESH (experience, strength and hope).
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Join Date: Aug 2017
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Yeah, the story of AA is actually really cool. These guys knew they needed to do something and went to any lengths to achieve it. Admirable stuff when alcoholism was a lot more normalized than it is today, in my opinion.
Either way, I think you’re doing a really great job, Tet. Like I said before, I don’t think it’s wrong to step back every so often and evaluate what’s going on and if you could fine tune your recovery. We are ever changing as time marches forward.
I also said that I have my own reservations about step work with an individual who doesn’t fully understand my trauma and nuances of it. We must always protect ourselves, as long as that protection isn’t for the benefit of our addiction.
I’m also not sure why AA is such a sensitive topic. People for whom it has worked are absolutely going to agree with it, and for people’s lives that it saved? I don’t judge or blame them for wanting people to follow a path that LITERALLY saved their lives. AA is not the only way to get sober, but there is a high success rate for people who have committed to the program.
I dont want to start anything, but I know that AA has been a great tool for me in my sobriety so far, and I don’t think I would have been as successful had I not gone. I think it’s worth a shot for anyone who wants to stop drinking.
If people are getting and staying sober, whatever method they have is working for them (I think within reason). And I think Tetrax has made it clear that he is taking this very seriously and has finally surrendered.
Anyway, this kind of turned into a conglomerate of all my thoughts on the subject. But bottom line, keep going Tet. You’re doing it.
Either way, I think you’re doing a really great job, Tet. Like I said before, I don’t think it’s wrong to step back every so often and evaluate what’s going on and if you could fine tune your recovery. We are ever changing as time marches forward.
I also said that I have my own reservations about step work with an individual who doesn’t fully understand my trauma and nuances of it. We must always protect ourselves, as long as that protection isn’t for the benefit of our addiction.
I’m also not sure why AA is such a sensitive topic. People for whom it has worked are absolutely going to agree with it, and for people’s lives that it saved? I don’t judge or blame them for wanting people to follow a path that LITERALLY saved their lives. AA is not the only way to get sober, but there is a high success rate for people who have committed to the program.
I dont want to start anything, but I know that AA has been a great tool for me in my sobriety so far, and I don’t think I would have been as successful had I not gone. I think it’s worth a shot for anyone who wants to stop drinking.
If people are getting and staying sober, whatever method they have is working for them (I think within reason). And I think Tetrax has made it clear that he is taking this very seriously and has finally surrendered.
Anyway, this kind of turned into a conglomerate of all my thoughts on the subject. But bottom line, keep going Tet. You’re doing it.
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Join Date: Jun 2017
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Whenever I encounter situations that make me feel awkward I have two options
1.) in the future I can avoid similar situations
2.) I can work on why I feel awkward
For me, the second option provides a more permanent solution and I find that I encounter less situations which make me feel awkward in general.
1.) in the future I can avoid similar situations
2.) I can work on why I feel awkward
For me, the second option provides a more permanent solution and I find that I encounter less situations which make me feel awkward in general.
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