Moral Failing
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Warwick RI
Posts: 1,276
100% agree...I am so honest with my "failings"....for the last 5 years I have been struggling.
I go to church because my Father needs me to take him on Sundays...and I have become close with church members.
I missed church due to drinking a couple of weeks ago...and in the past when I missed church people cared..put me on the prayer list...etc...
I noticed when I went back after "this time"...no one asked...no one cared...its as if you are looked down upon for having a disease...I was very angry and hurt by this.....
The same is true throughout the years with Drs and psychiatrists...they all were very willing and compassionate toward me to help me UNTIL I outed I was alcoholic....the dynamic changes from there.
Good "awareness" post.
I go to church because my Father needs me to take him on Sundays...and I have become close with church members.
I missed church due to drinking a couple of weeks ago...and in the past when I missed church people cared..put me on the prayer list...etc...
I noticed when I went back after "this time"...no one asked...no one cared...its as if you are looked down upon for having a disease...I was very angry and hurt by this.....
The same is true throughout the years with Drs and psychiatrists...they all were very willing and compassionate toward me to help me UNTIL I outed I was alcoholic....the dynamic changes from there.
Good "awareness" post.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 388
TWTOM - I also 100% agree with this statement. One of my coworkers is very open about being in recovery and AA. There iare certainly people that judge him for it.
that is why I have not told a single person I am in recovery. Not friends, coworkers, family, even my wife does not know I'm in recovery. It's way easier for me that way.
that is why I have not told a single person I am in recovery. Not friends, coworkers, family, even my wife does not know I'm in recovery. It's way easier for me that way.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,312
I agree. But isn’t it mind boggling that society reinforces a drinking culture and supports heavy, if not alcoholic, drinking?
I’m very guarded with my personal information, not just regarding my status as an alcoholic. People are very judgmental especially with issues/situations they do not understand.
I’m very guarded with my personal information, not just regarding my status as an alcoholic. People are very judgmental especially with issues/situations they do not understand.
Forum Leader
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
Judgement only exists in the minds of those who judge.
I used to blame a lot of my problems on "society" too, but in the end I am the only one who can control my choices. I hope you can find the strength to get the help you need TWTOM.
Yes, the world isn't always fair - but then again no one ever said it was supposed to be. Change what you can and the rest will work itself out.
I used to blame a lot of my problems on "society" too, but in the end I am the only one who can control my choices. I hope you can find the strength to get the help you need TWTOM.
Yes, the world isn't always fair - but then again no one ever said it was supposed to be. Change what you can and the rest will work itself out.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
I don't give a flying **** who judges me. Yep, people do and some think it's just being weak or bad morals, or whatever- never happen to someone they know, you have to be some [ homeless, jobless, brown bag, etc] person to be a drunk...wtf ever.
MY job is to 1) stay in recovery then 2) share the message that honesty can only help and 3) awareness matters. My truth and a strength I have is being honest on public platforms. How people react is their business- and I can tell you that I care about the ones who reach out for help, or have questions, or have a brother/friend/mom/second cousin twice removed who they love and are worried about. The rest of the audience that might be out there? The world? Well, I can hope and I can see that a change is rumbling in the areas of mental health and substance abuse and I can focus on what I can contribute to that.
And sometimes? I get a few lines in the LA Times or a podcast on being a woman in recovery - or one in recovery in the restaurant industry, which is a very small number as I have learned. And I'm just a little non-special-snowflake who thinks being sober is the best gift of my whole life.
Being public isn't for everyone - but shame is for no one.
So, that's my $0.02.
MY job is to 1) stay in recovery then 2) share the message that honesty can only help and 3) awareness matters. My truth and a strength I have is being honest on public platforms. How people react is their business- and I can tell you that I care about the ones who reach out for help, or have questions, or have a brother/friend/mom/second cousin twice removed who they love and are worried about. The rest of the audience that might be out there? The world? Well, I can hope and I can see that a change is rumbling in the areas of mental health and substance abuse and I can focus on what I can contribute to that.
And sometimes? I get a few lines in the LA Times or a podcast on being a woman in recovery - or one in recovery in the restaurant industry, which is a very small number as I have learned. And I'm just a little non-special-snowflake who thinks being sober is the best gift of my whole life.
Being public isn't for everyone - but shame is for no one.
So, that's my $0.02.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 412
To be fair I can see how people can view it as a moral failing. A) Their brain chemistry is different and they do not respond to alcohol the same way as we do so they can't understand it and B) We all have to take responsibility for our own actions and many actions taken due to alcoholism are completely immoral. Stealing, neglecting your children or driving drunk are clearly immoral actions. If you are a diabetic and don't take your insulin and causes you to get sick is that the diseases fault or yours? In my mind alcoholism works in a very similar fashion. People looking down on people who have a sickness and are in recovery who are making a real effort are clowns and we have no shortness of clowns on planet earth.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,909
If someone thinks my alcoholism is due to a moral failing...how does that change me? It doesn't, unless I let it.
I will keep on living the way I am because I know full well the difference between the way I live now and the way I lived before recovery.
I don't broadcast that I am in recovery, but I also don't care who finds out that I am. That way I don't have to worry that maybe my ego is somehow involved in my actions and decisions concerning disclosure/nondisclosure.
Who knows maybe the ripple effect might help enlighten others as to the holes in the thought process that alcoholism is the result of a moral failing.
I will keep on living the way I am because I know full well the difference between the way I live now and the way I lived before recovery.
I don't broadcast that I am in recovery, but I also don't care who finds out that I am. That way I don't have to worry that maybe my ego is somehow involved in my actions and decisions concerning disclosure/nondisclosure.
Who knows maybe the ripple effect might help enlighten others as to the holes in the thought process that alcoholism is the result of a moral failing.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: North East, USA
Posts: 704
Well good thing I could not care any less, truly, what anyone thinks of me. I stay in my lane and I owe nothing to anyone.
I don't broadcast my recovery either, but I don't hide it. If my employer has an issue with it, that's discrimination. Simple.
Thankfully we live in a time where being sober is increasingly acceptable and even down right badass to be. Lol. At least around the company I keep. I'm unaffected by others. They dont walk in my shoes, never have.
Do you.
Jules
I don't broadcast my recovery either, but I don't hide it. If my employer has an issue with it, that's discrimination. Simple.
Thankfully we live in a time where being sober is increasingly acceptable and even down right badass to be. Lol. At least around the company I keep. I'm unaffected by others. They dont walk in my shoes, never have.
Do you.
Jules
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by ThatWasTheOldMe 
Like it or not, society looks at addiction and alcoholism as a moral failing. You're being judged constantly. Be careful who you trust.
everyone has moral failings. its part of being human.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,065
I judge people all the time - that in itself is a moral failing. I mean I try not to, but invariably I do.
If someone wants to judge me because I used to drink too much, well that is their problem, not mine and chances are, they're probably being a hypocrite.
I don't tell anyone anything they do not need to know. I no longer drink, end of story. Some of the top business minds in the world do not drink. People who create something great and have the passion and drive to make it number one, those are the kind of people I want to emulate.
If someone wants to judge me because I used to drink too much, well that is their problem, not mine and chances are, they're probably being a hypocrite.
I don't tell anyone anything they do not need to know. I no longer drink, end of story. Some of the top business minds in the world do not drink. People who create something great and have the passion and drive to make it number one, those are the kind of people I want to emulate.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 388
Horse - you say I no longer drink end of story. I take this exact same approach.
I do not talk to anyone about my recovery at all. No one outside this forum know I am on SR. No one other than my therapist know that I go to addiction counseling. I applaud anyone who is braver than I am and are willing to tell others about there recovery. That's not me though, I'm staying anonymous.
I do not talk to anyone about my recovery at all. No one outside this forum know I am on SR. No one other than my therapist know that I go to addiction counseling. I applaud anyone who is braver than I am and are willing to tell others about there recovery. That's not me though, I'm staying anonymous.
Yay, me!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Planet Earth (most days)
Posts: 1,596
Originally Posted by Rd2quit
Horse - you say I no longer drink end of story. I take this exact same approach.
I do not talk to anyone about my recovery at all. No one outside this forum know I am on SR. No one other than my therapist know that I go to addiction counseling. I applaud anyone who is braver than I am and are willing to tell others about there recovery. That's not me though, I'm staying anonymous.
I do not talk to anyone about my recovery at all. No one outside this forum know I am on SR. No one other than my therapist know that I go to addiction counseling. I applaud anyone who is braver than I am and are willing to tell others about there recovery. That's not me though, I'm staying anonymous.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Posts: 535
Originally Posted by ThatWasTheOldMe
Like it or not, society looks at addiction and alcoholism as a moral failing. You're being judged constantly. Be careful who you trust.
Psychiatrist Jud Brewer puts it like this:
"The simple definition of addiction is this: continued use (of a substance or behavior) despite adverse consequences.
Addiction is everywhere. Continued tweeting despite adverse consequences. Continued shopping despite adverse consequences. Continued pining away for that special someone despite adverse consequences. Continued computer gaming despite adverse consequences. Continued eating despite adverse consequences. Continued daydreaming despite adverse consequences. Addiction really wasn’t limited to the so-called hard drugs and addictive substances. It is everywhere.
In the name of convenience and efficiency, the modern world is increasingly designed to create experiences that are addictive. This holds true for things (like shoes, food, etc.) behaviors (like watching TV or playing video games) and even thoughts (like politics, romance, or needing to keep up with the latest news.) And because all of these are available at a moment’s notice through our TVs, laptops and smartphones, they can take advantage of any weak moment (boredom, frustration, anger, loneliness, hunger) to offer a simple emotional fix (buy these shoes, eat this food, check newsfeed)."
So what's my point? Addiction is a learned behavior that can be changed. No one gets addicted to a substance or a behavior that they have not learned does something for them. Change your thinking and change your life. Choose a better life.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SC
Posts: 57
Originally Posted by Newbeginning421
To be fair I can see how people can view it as a moral failing. A) Their brain chemistry is different and they do not respond to alcohol the same way as we do so they can't understand it and B) We all have to take responsibility for our own actions and many actions taken due to alcoholism are completely immoral. Stealing, neglecting your children or driving drunk are clearly immoral actions. If you are a diabetic and don't take your insulin and causes you to get sick is that the diseases fault or yours? In my mind alcoholism works in a very similar fashion. People looking down on people who have a sickness and are in recovery who are making a real effort are clowns and we have no shortness of clowns on planet earth.
I've done some sorry **** when I drank. I understand why it upset some people. Now I've taken responsibility for it and sobered up. I won't be beaten over the head with my past but really I can't say anyone has done that.
No Dogma Please
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
Morality is relative. I don't believe in "moral failings." I find the words "moral" and "values" less than useless.
I'm with August, I give exactly zero figs what people think about my sobriety. I think it's the best thing ever. If they are judging me for having a problem and taking care of it, that's their problem.
I'm extremely open about my sobriety and recovery, and I also really don't care if people drink or smoke weed or whatever, or find it enjoyable. People who are a little buzzed are fine. I don't like being around people who are very drunk or stoned, not because I find it tempting, but rather boring and annoying.
My experience is that I've gotten far more kudos and support from friends, family, and even relative strangers when they find out I've gotten sober. I rarely if ever encounter judgement.
If you're getting judgement at a church, it's a pretty crappy church. I'm not a Christian, but I recognize the values and lessons that Christ taught and I'm pretty sure that gossip and judgement ain't two of them.
I'm with August, I give exactly zero figs what people think about my sobriety. I think it's the best thing ever. If they are judging me for having a problem and taking care of it, that's their problem.
I'm extremely open about my sobriety and recovery, and I also really don't care if people drink or smoke weed or whatever, or find it enjoyable. People who are a little buzzed are fine. I don't like being around people who are very drunk or stoned, not because I find it tempting, but rather boring and annoying.
My experience is that I've gotten far more kudos and support from friends, family, and even relative strangers when they find out I've gotten sober. I rarely if ever encounter judgement.
If you're getting judgement at a church, it's a pretty crappy church. I'm not a Christian, but I recognize the values and lessons that Christ taught and I'm pretty sure that gossip and judgement ain't two of them.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,339
When it comes down to how recovering addicts are perceived, I think that it can be a little more complicated than either feeling judged all the time or feeling absolutely secure in one's sobriety to the point that one simply does not care what others think.
To recognize what the concern of the OP wrote was, it is a reality that people do make assessments of others all the time, and in early recovery I think it's probably a more secure place to be careful about making pronouncements of being a former addict unless you have an established relationship with that person. Others do have reasons to conceal their pasts to safeguard the security of the stations that the hold in their communities. It's just a reality of the world that we inhabit that people don't understand what it means to be a recovering person, and that we are have to deal with it.
Is it fair that we are viewed with suspicion by others that we are in recovery? Not absolutely, but in many cases we have broken norms of behavior, social and personal contracts that are part of the cohesion of society, and that people are concerned about such things. This is part of the responsibility for our pasts that we have to bear in some situations. We are seen as potentially disruptive based upon some facts that demonstrate that relapse is very common. Most people are very transactional in their dealings with others, and are wary of former addicts.
A proportionally small number of us make it into prolonged or even total recovery, and I think it behooves us to be mindful that not all persons, especially those in early recovery, are free from relative states of anxiety or even fear of what it means to be "the addict".
To recognize what the concern of the OP wrote was, it is a reality that people do make assessments of others all the time, and in early recovery I think it's probably a more secure place to be careful about making pronouncements of being a former addict unless you have an established relationship with that person. Others do have reasons to conceal their pasts to safeguard the security of the stations that the hold in their communities. It's just a reality of the world that we inhabit that people don't understand what it means to be a recovering person, and that we are have to deal with it.
Is it fair that we are viewed with suspicion by others that we are in recovery? Not absolutely, but in many cases we have broken norms of behavior, social and personal contracts that are part of the cohesion of society, and that people are concerned about such things. This is part of the responsibility for our pasts that we have to bear in some situations. We are seen as potentially disruptive based upon some facts that demonstrate that relapse is very common. Most people are very transactional in their dealings with others, and are wary of former addicts.
A proportionally small number of us make it into prolonged or even total recovery, and I think it behooves us to be mindful that not all persons, especially those in early recovery, are free from relative states of anxiety or even fear of what it means to be "the addict".
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
I'll add one more thing. The vast majority of people simply don't "get" alcoholism and addiction. Some come close, or try really hard, and my dad is a great example of someone who comes about as close as I've ever seen a non-alcoholic get, thru life and love for my mom, and then me. Yet it was my mom who always "got it" the most.
Circling back to my point about doing what I can to raise awareness and understanding, hopefully some people will change and medical practice can evolve and help and resources for all can expand, and so on. Hopefully the "funny" memes and automatic messages get a different context and, at the end of the day, we're still the minority and that means we have to deal with our reality- and, truthfully? I only choose people who will support me in that.
I bet even some of them judge things they might know I did- and no one except my sponsor knows all (and I'm sure she actually doesn't, bc I def don't remember all that I did!). I fully agree with Brene Brown that without vulnerability you cannot have courage. Some of the strongest people I know live both of those things in recovery, whether "just" being here on SR or carrying their experience outright or just in the ways we live in sobriety out in the world.
Circling back to my point about doing what I can to raise awareness and understanding, hopefully some people will change and medical practice can evolve and help and resources for all can expand, and so on. Hopefully the "funny" memes and automatic messages get a different context and, at the end of the day, we're still the minority and that means we have to deal with our reality- and, truthfully? I only choose people who will support me in that.
I bet even some of them judge things they might know I did- and no one except my sponsor knows all (and I'm sure she actually doesn't, bc I def don't remember all that I did!). I fully agree with Brene Brown that without vulnerability you cannot have courage. Some of the strongest people I know live both of those things in recovery, whether "just" being here on SR or carrying their experience outright or just in the ways we live in sobriety out in the world.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
