Numblady

HI. I remember seeing a really helpful post about the relapse ladder. I’m sorry I haven’t really figured out how to subscribe/find old threads very well. Could someone share that thread with me (again)?

I’m kind of worried I’m on some rung of the ladder and would like to work on stepping off of it. It’s just a general feeling of malaise, and lack of accountability, and well a whole lot of things I don’t even really know how to explain (especially when I’m past bedtime). But I don’t feel like I’m trending in the right direction. Nothing immediate. More like plotting semi-consciously for vacation later in the summer kind of thing.

Thanks in advance.

D122y

I would like to see that post/info. as well. I may google it.

I don't feel like I am plotting, but as my sober days count up booze seems less of an issue.

I know I am heavily kindled and will likely lose the mental and physical strength 4 years of continual clean growth has given me.

I just keep coming back here and it is like I find like minded posts that give me what I need to keep it together.

Thanks.

Deserto

Here it is:

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ml#post6145383 (Signs of an Upcoming Relapse)

"Are you climbing the Relapse Ladder?"

Relapse is at the top of a nine step ladder of thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. The lowest rung is called happy memories. "Happy memories" means that you are thinking about the good times you had while you were using. The next rung up is called "I wasn't that bad." This occurs when you tell yourself you weren't really that bad, that your addiction was someone else's fault, that your problem was caused by anything except your disease.

The next rung higher is stopping treatment. This means that you cease going to meetings, you stop practicing the steps, you don't have time to see your therapist, you stop talking to your sponsor, you don't do your daily meditation. When you stop treatment, you pretend that you can stay sober by doing nothing. The fourth rung is called high risk situations. Examples are you return to the bar that you used to frequent, you begin hanging out with your old using friends, you spend long periods of time isolating in the basement where you used to drink vodka. You put yourself in these situations not thinking that you will use there, but just to experience the feeling of being there again.

The fifth rung is called, emotional imbalance. During emotional imbalance, something causes you to get really angry, irritated or otherwise emotional and you remember how your drug, drink or behavior took away the pain of the emotion. You may even get really happy and you remember how you always drank to celebrate. Now you are really getting higher on the ladder, and like any ladder, the higher you go, the more dangerous the climb. Also, the higher you go, the more committed you are to reaching the top.

The sixth rung is fantasizing. Now, you are spending increasing periods of your day thinking about using for no apparent reason. Fantasizing leads to the seventh rung, getting ready to use. This means you intend to use and you plan how you are going to relapse. You tell yourself that tonight when my husband is asleep, I am going to sneak out to the Bar. You make arrangements to buy drugs. You return to the internet porn site. You get dressed to go to the casino. You think through the exact steps of where you are going to go to get your drugs, drink, or act out. On the next rung, you actually get the drugs or order the drink. You acquire the tools of relapse. On this rung, you may feel a terrible panic, and unless you reach out to someone (which is now incredibly difficult to do because you are so committed to reaching the top), you step up to the final and ninth rung which is Relapse. As you know, the Relapse rung has a crack in it and cannot bear your weight. So you come crashing down. Sometimes the crash happens immediately. Sometimes, the crack worsens over time. But since there is a crack, you will fall. If you survive the fall, you will feel guilt at having relapsed. You will resolve to stop using. And unless you get treatment, you will start the terrible climb back up the relapse ladder beginning with the first rung which is…..

© 2016 Blitzen, LLC, all rights reserved.

least

Thanks Deserto! Feels good to know I'm not even on that ladder as I have no happy memories of drinking.

Dee74

Thanks Deserto - hope you're doing well

D

Erratic

thank for that link and asking for it numblady

kept it open to read after work x

Deserto

Thanks Dee, I'm doing well

Least -- I agree! I actually looked up this post myself about 10 days ago because I've been going through a quiet phase and started to wonder if I was in fact isolating and if that was one of the first "rungs." Was glad to reread this and realize I'm not even on the first rung! I look back on my drinking days with a sense of incredulity, not longing. (As for isolating -- I just needed some quiet alone time )

DriGuy

And there is the relapse crevasse that you don't see coming. You supposedly just fall into it. But I don't think it's that mysterious. Both the ladder and crevasse are symptoms of a desire to drink.

Numblady

Thank you Deserto and to all who commented too.

It’s interesting. It seems like you could be on different rungs of the ladder and not necessarily in order. I am not really sure where I am. It’s just this weird feeling of maybe it’s easier to just give in. I live with an alcoholic who doesn’t exactly actively sabotage but has expressed a desire that I return to drinking and that I was never an alcoholic; nearly every one around me drinks; sometimes it looks like the whole world drinks; and lately I’ve just been a harder time coping with stress.

I know on a rational level and even a deeper fundamental level that alcohol won’t fix any of that, and that what i really need to do is get to the bottom of why I worry so much and so deeply but sometimes the lizard brain or whatever it is just wants temporary relief. For now, sticking close to SR and may go back to read some of my own first posts in addition to reading those of others.

Like everything, it will pass (provided I don’t just passively wait to see what transpires).

Thanks again everyone.

August252015

This is great- thanks for reposting.

I'd have a different order - like emotional (sobriety) balance is at my base. Physical sobriety is the obvious precursor to emotional sobriety. Those come from working my program, and when put together, this keeps me off the ladder in the first place!

The part that hit home with me just now is the 7/8 - I had a friend who did each of the things you list (from buying the drugs, making the hotel reservations at the casino, so on) .... then called another friend then me for help. She'd left her program about 6 mo before and been doing nothing to support a life in recovery except literally staying sober. So she had gotten on and up thru the ladder in pretty short order and barely stopped. Now she has to decide where she wants to return and what to do to get back off the ladder.

I bet this is a great tool for those who are super visual too

biminiblue

I can certainly remember when it was fun. That's on that first rung.

But >>screeches to a big old STOP<< the very next thing, "I wasn't that bad."

Nope. I can check that one off with no reservations. I didn't even read the rest of it.

Not going back there, no matter what.

I don't know if I could live with someone who is a heavy drinker, though. I'd probably be plotting a way out of that situation. No one is worth me dying over.

Numblady

August, I may start a separate thread eventually but if you happen to come back to this thread I’m really curious what you mean by emotional sobriety. It’s one of those concepts I’ve heard a lot but I’ve never really been quite sure what it means. of course, it’s probably like alcoholism in the sense that spending mental energy trying to figure out what it is and isn’t probably doesn’t really matter if it’s something I know I have an issue with. But with that said, it does seem like it could be useful to hear what it means for you. I know I have issues with lack of boundaries and identifying/protecting my own needs, which leads to resentment. I have issues with figuring out how to best support others. I have a hard time with difficult conversations (though I can do it some). I could go on. Anyhow, TIA for you or anyone else who has thoughts on emotional sobriety.

Snowydelrico

Very informative thanks.
Think I’ve been between rung 4&5 just lately but climbed down as I’ve developed vertigo in my sober years

August252015

Hey numblady!
So I highlighted a couple things- the second being that I think it IS different than actual/physical sobriety because that's an either/or. Right? You're drinking or you're not. Emotional is both more intuitive, I'd say unique to each of us, and evolving as we have more sober time and just life-time.

So for me, physical sobriety is the presumptive life condition and from that standpoint, I don't "worry" about. By emotional sobriety, I mean the life of recovery that I maintain. Often, I say recovery is the backdrop of my life. To me that means that emotional balance is key- so, yes, some of what you talk about struggling with and learning to do the key things each of us wrestles with better- and that balance is maintained and strengthened by a lot of stuff- OR it's undermined.

Building a state of emotional sobriety means everything from using my (AA) program and spiritual foundation I've built and need to keep maintaining- ie, also turning to the steps and readings when I struggle with something, need to get out of my head/own way/self-centered/resentment/etc tendencies and and so on along the program's suggestions. Service to others is AAs Step 12 so basically, any way I think of someone else first, or do something for another or essentially pay attention to only what I can control and not get in others' business...all helpful.

Stuff like yoga and diet and time alone and (trying to) sleep...evening time with my husband....socializing only when I/we want to and knowing my boundaries....saying NO to anything and anyone that doesn't support the positive life I have....it's all what helps keep this nutty alcoholic brain as even as possible. Even stuff like keeping my pretty blonde highlights or buying a new pair of cheap sunglasses, or eating ice cream for dinner, or randomly texting a friend who popped to mind, to seeing our pastoral counselor every few months or reading books on various aspects of sobriety...whatever supports my idea of a good sober life. It can also mean actively getting rid of stuff or people; an intense example is the friend who just the week exited my life and I had to accept that she had been emotionally abusive to me and I had to let go.

I'm probably rambling but I guess the bottom line is that if I put as many layers of "things" that support my emotional sobriety in place as possible, then I'm furthest away from ever putting that physical sobriety in jeopardy. If I start slacking off on things- skipping meetings, or isolating, or started thinking I didn't need the meds my psych and I have me on, or I'm getting restless/irritable/discontent for a couple of days- all the way up to picking fights with my husband or dwelling on issues I have no control over....I'll be in danger of letting the "creep" towards relapse begin in the first place.

Hope that makes sense.

Helianthus

I appreciate your post Numblady and thanks Deserto for reposting that link it was an interesting read. I am just over a year sober, lately I have been feeling like I just want to take a small step back from constantly having recovery at the front of my mind. I've been trying to figure out whether I need to worry because I may be heading down a bad path or whether I feel solid enough in my sobriety to just relax my grip a bit and enjoy my new sober life without questioning the motive behind every thought I have. Maybe it's something to do with the recent milestone, this is the longest I ever been sober.

So thanks again

Hawkeye13

This causal chain is what some people call "prelapse" and for me, I know I can never "slip" because there is always a pattern similar to this before I pick up again--which I can choose to arrest or allow to move forward. I always have that choice.

But if I don't take steps to get back down the ladder, what I do when I drink again is a relapse, as I know when I'm out of sober alignment and moving towards the bottle. . .

Hawkeye13

I know what you mean about "overthinking" sobriety Heli;

I found it draining to constantly question every motive, every thought in terms of was I setting myself up to drink--

Under "secular connections" on this forum they have some information on AVRT--this has been a very helpful approach to me personally.

Here's a link to the first sticky explaining the basics.
Pretty much, you decide absolutely that you've quit for good, and begin to live recovery, instead of worrying about if you are recovered all the time.

It doesn't mean you aren't careful, but simply that you've made a decision to quit which is final so relapse is not an option. I'm not explaining it well at all, so please check out the link.

The point for me has been finally accepting that I cannot drink safely ever, and taking the decision to really back myself up on that, instead of leaving the door cracked "just in case" down the road. . . I always did that, and since I've made my "Big Decision" it is easier to say no since there is no wiggle-room for maybe any longer.

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ined-long.html (AVRT Explained (long))

Helianthus

Thanks for your reply Hawkeye, I'm in unexplored territory now so maybe it is time to add/try something new. I'll definitely check it out

Numblady

August that definitely made sense. Thanks for taking the time to write it out. I think I need to figure out a way to remove some of the barriers in my life to having more of those things. I can’t change my kids’ super intense personalities but things like my job, my reactions and how much I soak up the emotions of others, etc. Those are barriers to being healthy and free and at the end of the day they are in my control.

And Heil/Hawk also know what you mean. I feel like I’ve soaked up so much good knowledge and yet just in the recent past I find myself subconsciously distancing myself or thinking a recovery idea is dumb or just being annoyed with all of it. It’s a stupid place for me to be and I’m glad I’m coming here and being honest about it.

have a good night everyone.