MindfulMan

I find it interesting that many people have mentioned "a moment of clarity" and/or that it was decided in an instant that things had gotten to be too much and they were done with booze/drugs/whatever.

I myself felt like a switch flipped. I could no longer ignore that my drinking was a problem (medical detox), I was being told about Step 1, and I realized that I was done.

Wondering how universal people find that decisive moment.

Cosima11

It was really just seeing the way things were progressing in ways I could no longer deny.. and knowing what would or could happen if I continued. There were some chaotic events leading up to that, but I don't think the actual day I stopped was anything out of the ordinary.

I'd say there were also several "moments of clarity" in small doses which I tried to ignore at the time, but eventually led up to my quitting.

August252015

It doesn't matter, IMO. Comparison to better or worse experiences and stories is just not useful to my healthy path. I was high functioning til I was almost dead, my husband remained high functioning - sidenote: that terms itself is so misleading if we dig into it- yet we are both alcoholics. And each of us has to examine and view and change the ways we were creating horrible, less than, unsatisfactory lives.

WaterOx

No bang for me. It was more like death by 1000 cuts- or so it would be if I kept at it.

MLD51

Cosima said:

I'd say there were also several "moments of clarity" in small doses which I tried to ignore at the time, but eventually led up to my quitting.

This was true for me, also, now that I look back. I wasn't ready to pay attention to them, until I was. I think the beginning of my recovery came at the exact correct time for me. I used to wish I had started sooner, to avoid some of the pain I caused and experienced, but I now believe I had to go through exactly what I did in order to get to that place of acceptance and surrender. When it happened, and that switch was flipped, I knew it was for good, no questions asked. And I was ready and willing to get help and do whatever it took. If I had tried earlier, I might have been able to talk myself into going back out to "test" things. I have zero desire to do that, and I think it's because I went through what I did.

DriGuy

I don't remember much about my last drink. That was almost 25 years ago. Partly it was because I didn't know it was my last drink. It was just the end of another night drinking. But I do remember the general context, and I would call it a whimper. I had seriously wanted to quit for the previous 6 months. I was grasping at straws and getting nowhere. I could last 3 days on rare occasions, but mostly it was nightly. I was depressed, knew I was not in control, and when I WOULD last 3 days, the cravings were desperate losing battles. Definitely a whimper.

After that last drink, I broke the three day barrier, which included 3 hours of gnawing hideous craving starting at 5 PM on day three until I went to my first AA meeting that night, which distracted me from the cravings. I enjoyed the meeting, and drove right past the bar afterwards and went to bed. I decided I would go to a meeting every night as a way of distracting myself from the cravings. And mystery of mysteries, it worked. So my last drink was in a context of hopelessness, not knowing what the future held at all. It was a dismal lost whimper identical to every other whimper for the last 6 months.

WeThinkNot

Yes you have articulated perfectly what I was thinking. Especially the analogy of a switch being flipped.

When it happened for me I just knew. The last swig of whiskey was barely entering my bloodstream and the bottle was still in my hand. But within that infinitesimal moment I was officially a non drinker.

It was the single most amazing experience I've ever had in life. Similar to MLD51 and her moment after the DUI. It's good to read this is more common than I would have thought.

MindfulMan

I'm fascinated by this "decisive moment" that many of us have shared.

I was fortunate. Despite being in and out of addiction for years, I never really thought about not drinking ever again, and I managed to have enough time of relatively 'normal' drinking to both fool myself and keep my life from completely spinning out of control.

Until it did, beyond any question.

I wonder if there's a way that this decisive moment can be analyzed and replicated for someone who's at the point where they've realized that they have to stop, but is struggling with actually getting sober. People can teeter on this painful knife edge for years, and it's just heart wrenching to see. Until recently I used to smugly think "My path to sobriety seems to be different than everyone else." It really wasn't. This "moment of clarity" seems to be a pretty common experience. Recovery lore talks about hitting bottom to get to this moment, and I do think there may need to be a trigger, but that trigger can be very different. In my case, like August, it was get treatment or die. But most people who stop drinking don't get to that point. The only real difference was the method I used to keep sober, which really is just window dressing, and I'm certainly not alone in using a 12 Step alternative.

We all know that nobody could have made us stop drinking or using, as the Friends and Family know all too well. But I'd like to really look at this moment, to see if there's ANYTHING I could give the addict who still suffers and help guide them to it. It's a very powerful moment, and it's the core of AVRT, the "Big plan," but I think the concept of making the vow to never drink or use again starts with the realization that it's the only way to change our lives and that we want THIS more than we want our drug(s) of choice. And this is useful in ANY recovery program.

We're experts on this field, we're all addicts in various stages of recovery from all over the world who aren't shy about sharing our experiences and who desperately care about helping others avoid some of the pain we've gone through. Is there any morsel of wisdom we can come up with?

Things in common, not differences in our paths. What's the common thread?

SoberCAH

I think my "moment of clarity" was a realization that my drinking would cost me my career.

That realization led to fear which led to the doors of a treatment center and then on to AA.

DriGuy

Annie Grace, in her book, The Naked Mind (I just finished it last night), briefly addresses this phenomenon. First, she provides statistics that 75% of alcoholics who quit for good, do so on their own. Then she describes her father who for years, drank with a vengeance, and then one day quit with the same vengeance, never looking back. She correlates it with personality factors. She describes her father as committed to everything he undertook, from his commitment to abusing alcohol to his commitment to finally quitting. There is that key which I constantly seem to be bringing up; "Commitment!" Grace describes her father's almost instantaneous change as due to a moment of clarity. Unfortunately, this doesn't answer your question, "How do you impart that experience of clarity to another alcoholic?"

If the statistics are correct, most recovering alcoholics don't seem to need help. Since they aren't in meetings or in forums, we don't hear them describing their experiences. I've met a handful of these "self helpers." They don't describe their recovery in detail or the methods they used. About all they have to tell you is that they once were serious drunks that decided to stop, so they don't become part of the public awareness. It's as if they don't exist, so we tend to think our situations of needing and seeking out help as the universal solution. It's possible we are the minority. Not that I care. I'm just happy I found a way.

MindfulMan

I also wonder about that statistic. I'd like to see how the term "alcoholic" is defined in that 75% of alcoholics quit on their own. It's quite possible that is correct, I'm sure that it is the majority of people who've decided that they're drinking more than they'd like and then stop. In any event, I'd imagine that nearly every one of that 75% had that moment of clarity.I

I think personality has something to do with it. A number of people in my rehab told me that although that place is a revolving door, they'd be surprised to see me back there unless I was there as a visitor or a volunteer. When I'm done with something, I'm just DONE.

Again, it's getting to that moment of being DONE. I guess another common thread is there is a point where there is some consequence of our behavior that is too great to ignore and pushes us into action. It could be losing a job, realizing that a marriage is in jeopardy, getting a DUI. In my case, it was losing my life. I must be pretty hardheaded (I'm sure that would surprise NOBODY here...).

But I also don't think that many of that 75% of people that quit on their own have superior "character," whatever that means. Maybe it's that moment of clarity that pushes us into being able to develop the character (whatever that means) to stay sober. I have a real hard time with terms like "character" and "values" btw.

So back to my original point...how do we impart the moment of clarity to the addict, or at least help guide them to it? Relentlessly but compassionately point out how terrible the consequences of their drinking/smoking/swallowing/snorting/injecting is? That doesn't work, as we know. Smokers know that they're dangerously compromising their health, telling them does exactly nothing. But that addiction supersedes even basic survival instincts.

Another thing that doesn't work by itself is "You should go to meetings," "You need to work the steps," "You need to do AVRT," "You need to make a Big Plan," "You need to treat your underlying depression." All of these things might be sound advice coming from our experience, but without that moment of clarity and that SURETY that the answer is not using our DOCs, all the meetings, Big Plans, Antabuse, medical detox, inpatient rehab aren't going to do squat to keep someone sober for life. Those suggestions come AFTER the commitment.

So how do we help them get there?

Guener

I ran into any number of things that could have been a big bang moment, but I continued until I did come to a decision that I felt like I was, as has been said, "done". This did not happen to me during a period of heavy drinking but rather after looking at things and realizing that I just could NOT take it any longer. Some of the things that help me to stay sober were happening at the same time that I reached my stopping point, for myself that was particularly dealing with long-standing depression and anxiety that preceded my first drinks. (I didn't start with one drink, I started with a bang.) Almost all of my real sobriety based effort has come after my moment of realization, though.

dsmaxis10

I don't remember all I know is when I awoke I was instantly feening for more. I dropped to my knees begging God to make me stop forever. Then I had a Spiritual Experience it shook me up but my alcohol obsession left me on day one. Although I did struggle with anxiety really bad and at two months it climaxed. It was so bad I went to the ER later in the day because my heart was hurting and beating so fast. But earlier in the day I thought to myself the only way to stop my anxiety quickly is to drink I had two months at the time . Then I thought to myself and was positively convinced I'll never get two months ever againif I drink I'll die a drunk or worse. I made it through the day thank God. The next day I went to AA told a guy I know there that always came and greated me I had two months announcements came does anybody have years or months of sobriety we like to celebrate your anniversary . I did not stand up and say anything all of a sudden the same guy stands up and says Jason has two months just hearing everyone chear for me really touched my heart and it really helped me out. It's been smooth sailing ever since .

August252015

I always doubt any statistics, studies etc whether from the NIH or "lay people" or any source- it's too hard IMO to get an accurate read on % of who gets sober how, who stays sober, why etc....maybe one day....

To the imparting of the decisive moment - I do not believe we can provide it for anyone else. We can guide, suggest and share from our experience and what has worked but for me and so many others I hear - nothing matters til we get it ourselves.

I can't explain my DONE moment other than as the culmination of emotional, physical, complete exhaustion that led me to having (finally!) no answer to the single word "Why?" I was asked by the liver dr that Feb day. And for the first time I could recall in ages, I had the striking, stunning thought that I didn't want to die. That's what it all took for me, thru dire warnings, education on what I was doing to my body, pleas and others prayers...so, so many things.

For me, it was about seizing that last final chance to live.

My husband had a quite different experience, essentially deciding he was dissatisfied enough with most things in his life that it was time to make major changes, including getting sober. He looked at it as a one year plan of change, at first. He came to accept that he was a "real alcoholic" and sobriety was his permanent choice. No exact single lightening bolt moment- and that's also how he tends to work in general whereas I am indeed prone to dramatic reveals, whether sooner or later

It's enough for me to hope that whatever prompts that final decision and ongoing choice of it is what happens to every single one of us who needs it.

DriGuy

Statistics should always be suspect. This is the first time I've actually seen a number attached to alcoholics who quit on their own. What I always heard before was "most quit on their own," which is also suspect, although I've heard that one from a number of sources. I've also wondered how "alcoholic" is defined. Grace may have included a definition used by the statistic. I can't remember.

She was careful to avoid that implication in her anecdote, and elsewhere she expressed dismay about people attributing alcoholism to personality traits.

I had the same question floating in my mind after I posted, and I've been mulling that over since then. In my case, such moments have always been associated with soul searching and introspection. This is what people frequently do in times of crisis, or it's what they should do. I think I'm somewhat representative of others, and I did a lot of processing of my problem, the most serious of which started 6 months prior to quitting. Like I said before, it wasn't very productive because I was looking under the wrong rocks. This isn't always the case, and for some, the moment we are talking about probably came before they quit. My insights came after I quit.

There is usually insight connected to behavior change. Those in the humanist camp of psychology seek self knowledge that leads to change, and that's how I usually do things. In the case of my drinking, without really thinking about it, I switched to the behaviorist camp, and forced change without much knowledge, so the moments of clarity followed.

Again, how do we help others to find it? Well, I think we already do. That's what SR, AA, AVRT, counseling, and psychiatry are all about basically. Sometimes we get frustrated thinking we don't do this, because we meet a lot of unconscious resistance from others, even from those who want some kind of change. Resisting change is part of the human condition, so the process is slow, and often without reward.

Most of this advice is sound. Information about how alcoholism works or destroys victims is also sound. Giving it doesn't often seem rewarding because those moments of clarity don't come easily. When the switch is finally thrown and the light comes on, it seems easy, but getting a fellow alcoholic to that point requires him to do a lot of fumbling around in the dark trying to find the damned switch.

It's part of the process, and it's why psychotherapy and psychiatry often involve years, and these are with professionals. Groups like SR don't have professionals, just a lot of people with experience who are willing to help. Either approach takes time, because they both deal with human resistance, often at a subconscious level.

MLD51

I just want to say - this is a fascinating conversation.

WeThinkNot

Most definitely.

The way I phrased my question is admittedly clickbait but there was a reason for it. If somebody has their final drunk in a monumental and catastrophic event that is something that makes sense to addicts and non-addicts alike. "Well I decided it was time to stop after I got blackout drunk, got arrested after showing up at work and pissing on my boss' desk, and then my wife took the kids and left." A story like that follows the right cadence.

But as I said in the first post, my final drink was remarkable for being unremarkable. It seems that is more common than I would have suspected.

I guess I'm a little fidgety because spiritual goals are more esoteric. My goals in the first two years of sobriety had clear and identifiable deliverables: practicing mindfulness, eliminating toxic relationships, career and financial objectives. Now I'm focused on the spiritual and those are questions that have no answers.

How did I randomly stop? Is there a way to figure it out to help other struggling addicts? I could live a long and happy life and I'm pretty sure I'll still be asking myself decades from now.

entropy1964

How did I randomly stop? Is there a way to figure it out to help other struggling addicts? I could live a long and happy life and I'm pretty sure I'll still be asking myself decades from now.

Did you randomly stop? Or did the pain of what you were doing outweigh the benefits of drinking? I don't know, obviously, but it probably came to you more slowly than you realize. If you are drinking just to stave off detox that's pretty darn miserable. I know there is the belief that an addict has to hit bottom. And I do believe that, mostly. But bottom is relative. Some people do have to have the dramatic external 'event' that gets them there....the 'losing everything' idea. But what is everything? I had lost everything but none of it external. No stuff, jobs, partners, kids, money, houses etc. Just me. Ha. Yeah, that's all. Just my soul. That's pretty bang worthy. I mean, that's my perspective anyway. I'm just lucky I didn't lose the external stuff I guess. So maybe it's all about perception.

I think when I realized that my addiction is a side of me that isn't me, I began to understand what would work for me. I am very stubborn. So is my addiction. It wants what it wants but I'm much smarter. Also recognizing how it manipulated me and made me its bitch. I hate that.

I have a 'friend' from rehab who lives a couple states away (thank god). She just can't stay sober. On and off. I mean, I get it. I was the same way....different person but same basic traits. Stubborn. Dishonest (mostly with myself). Immature. I'll say that again. Immature. Lazy. Looking for the easy way out of literally everything. Not just my feelings, but life. I wanted someone to fix everything. And often that someone was booze. If booze can have a life of its own...which it did for me. My friend is the same way. She has the emotional thinking of an 8 yr old.

One thing that is usually pretty consistent with people with long term abstinence is maturity. And one thing that is pretty consistent with addicts stuck in the cycle? Immaturity. Could it be that simple?

ScottFromWI

I definitely had a "Moment". It wasn't like a vision or a voice, but when I woke up on January 7, 2013 something was just different and I knew I had to quit no matter what. I don't fully understand what happened or why, and I don't really don't want to know to be honest as it might turn back into a quest to "fix" my drinking problem ( AKA - so I can drink again )

I had tried several times before and had quit for periods of months, maybe it was those failures that led to this final decision to quit for good? Almost impossible to say really - kind of like tryng to figure out why someone chooses to be an architect vs a plumber.

MLD51

How did I randomly stop? Is there a way to figure it out to help other struggling addicts?

I think that's a question a LOT of us ask. I have a friend right now who was sober for 16 years, went back out, got sober again for a couple of years, and then went back out about 2 and a half years ago. When I talk to him (not often, an occasional check-in) he tells me he feels completely hopeless and helpless. I asked him once if he ever had that AHA moment I had, when he had sobriety in the past. He said no, he didn't think so. He got sober those times because he was losing or about to lose things that were important to him, but mostly because of external forces. He says he wishes he had that moment of clarity, like I did. And I wish I could say the right things to make that happen for him. I say all sorts of things and hope for the best, but in the end, it's going to have to come from within him.