WhoDeyPI

Happy Monday ya'll. I just have a few things about my weekend experience that I thought I would share today.

The Kentucky Derby, for those of you who don't know, is a big deal for Americans. Not sure why, but people have parties, dress up in fancy clothes, bright colors, all just to watch a 2 minute horse race. I've always seen it as like a "start of summer" party. I was invited to a party, and accepted the invite.

I knew very well the kind of party it would be. I knew people would be drinking, and drinking heavily. I showed up in my fancy new outfit, looking good, feeling good, and equipped with a bag full of my favorite NA beverages: Water, ginger ale, some limes to use as garnish, and a few NA hoppy craft drinks. I was prepped and ready for a good time.

I started mingling, stopping by the food table several times, and generally just enjoying myself and the festive atmosphere. People were happy, talkative, and just all around fun vibes. As the day went on, I started taking notice of who was drinking, who wasn't, and who was REALLY drinking. It amazed me how as every hour went by, I started to see a change in the party vibe. People really start to change as they drank, and it was fascinating to watch. One of the people I first met when I arrived was this guy about my age (31), very fit looking, very nicely dressed, and very well spoken. He had been consuming his drinks rather quickly, and was now an arrogant sloppy mess, with his mind on 2 things....drinking more, and finding a drunk girl to take to bed. If that is how I came across when I was drinking....I'm embarrassed, and don't miss that side of me at all.

Anyway, back to the party. The crowd started to thin out around 11pm, and the group that was left was the myself, the host, and about 6 others. At that point, most everyone involved was drunk, besides me of course, who was just observing the shenanigans.

Here's when things changed for me. The host, who at that point was the only other sober person, asked me if I wanted to smoke some cannabis. I declined, as I have never done that, and don't know much about it. As I retreated back to my corner to further observe the drunks, I decided to Google "health benefits of cannabis", and one of the first things that popped up is that it was recently linked to helping patients with liver disease.

Well, that's all I had to know. At this point, I'm on so many big pharma medications for my liver, maybe trying something new wouldn't hurt. So, Saturday night I tried cannabis for the first time.

After the first hour or so, I felt just at peace, relaxed, and carefree. It was great. As I continued to participate, I started feeling different sensations, all very different from anything else I've experienced. Everything started being funny, and may times I found myself crying from laughing so hard. Then I got a little disoriented and paranoid. Then I was fine again. Ending up falling asleep, and sleeping very well. Woke up Sunday feeling great. Nothing bad happened. I felt healthy. I felt hydrated. I'm not sure what, if any, effect it had on my liver disease, but I do know it didn't harm it. Here I am Monday morning, back at work.

SO. That was my weekend. Any thoughts on my experience with a "foreign substance"? In my mind, that is not considered a "relapse" on my sobriety....but what do ya'll think? I have no intentions on doing it on a regular basis, and do not feel the need to desire for it in my everyday life. Just looking for some thoughts.

Cheers. Day 251.

zoobadger

It's really common for people who give up one substance to become addicted to or abuse something else.

That said, I know a recovering heroin addict who drinks moderately, and I'm sure she's only one of many who use other substances moderately after recovering from addition.

On the other hand, during rehab, I probably met a dozen people who did just what you're describing and it led to serious problems. Indeed, there was a woman about your age in rehab with me who was there because she was smoking pot constantly after getting sober from alcohol. It was OK at first but eventually began to seriously interfere with her ability to be a wife, parent, and productive employee. Not as ruinous as booze, but she felt her life would be better without it and went back into IOP to help quit.

Why not just be totally sober long enough to discover all the joy in life that was hidden when you were constantly impaired? It's out there but takes a while to emerge.

biminiblue

I'm really sorry to hear that you smoked weed.

You smoked it with the intent to alter your experience and or feel something different, you knew it was to get high and your AV used the liver excuse to rationalize.

I hope you never smoke it again.

Read around in the Marijuana subforum if you think this is a harmless drug.

John65

Hi WhoDeyPI,

I'm pretty certain that smoking a little but of cannabis would have neither a good or bad effect on your liver. But, it altered your mind and and you enjoyed the feeling. The feeling that cannabis gives can be moreish and this could be problematic for those of us with addiction issues.

I have used cannabis a lot in the past both recreationally and at times for 'health issues' but as time passed that use always ended up having a negative impact on my life and even made me return to drinking at times. I think it fed the Beast and got the AV going.

People can google substances to find out 'health benefits' but this can be a course of action to find an excuse to use or drink - cannabis and liver disease, red wine and heart disease etc.

It can be a rocky road so please give things careful thought if you consider going any further down it.

WhoDeyPI

For me, the purpose of smoking it wasn't to get away from reality, or to be "high".

The decision I made to try it came from a place of total clarity and sobriety. Similar to my decision to get a tattoo, I often feel like since alcohol no longer holds me in captivity, I need to take advantage of my freedom and try new things.

I generally really enjoyed myself, but do not see myself making a habit of it. That being said, I will be continuing to read up on the possible health benefits of it, but would much rather add it to my tea, if possible.

I do appreciate everyone's different thoughts on this, as that's why I decided to "confess". I definitely had no desire to drink, so that's a win!

WhoDeyPI

All good points. Definitely something to consider. For me, there was zero connection between cannabis and wanting alcohol. In fact, both having the cannabis as an option and seeing others make fools out of themselves while drinking....I think it reaffirmed my desire to never drinking again. While others dealt with post-drinking regret Sunday morning, I was out on a hike feeling great.

MLD51

People have varying experiences with pot after quitting other things. I agree with John, that it requires careful thought on your part. It sounds like you enjoyed it, and that is a bit worrisome to me. But you also say you have no intention of making it a regular thing. I'd just say be careful. Not wagging my finger, I just always get a bit concerned when people use mind-altering substances of any sort after quitting something else. Even if the intent was not to get high. Fact is, it does make you high. I wonder if CBD oil would offer the health benefits you are looking for? No high there.

nez

I don't care to go into whether or not this would be considered a relapse because any answer to that question is highly subjective, individual, and opinion; and I believe in sharing my experience rather than my opinion. My first experience with alcohol could be described along these lines...
This was shared not as an answer to the relapse question, but rather as a hindsight into my introduction to my journey into alcoholism.

MLD51

Very good point, Nez.

Fearlessat50

Hi Whodey, glad you didn’t drink and that you had fun and you are trying new things. I just wanted to share my experience though. One of my previous relapses was after doing something similar. I started doing pot around the time marijuana became legal for medicinal uses here. I got my marijuana ID card, justified I was using it for anxiety and insomnia and I wasn’t destroying my liver since not drinking, nor my lungs because I was just doing a little bit of edibles. But ultimately, I ended up drinking again. When your mind is in any type of altered state, all rational thought goes out the door. And since I was using a lot of rational therapy to try to stay sober from alcohol, taking in a substance that interfered with rational thought was detrimental.

I also have a friend who can’t drink because alcohol causes migraines so she tried pot and she’s a total stoner now. Can barely remember anything. I miss my old friend and I’m sure her kids miss her too.

I’m not saying you will wind up down the same path. Just be careful. I found the best path for me is to not take in any mind altering substances. I prefer the natural highs I get from running, meditation, hiking in nature, etc. I can still be fully present with clarity and self awareness in these moments.

vxper

I had experience before I was sober and used to mix the two heavily (talk about obliteration). In my recovery state I stayed away from it for awhile but I now uses it incredibly sparingly for anxiety. I've never felt a need to smoke or look forward to it. I do not smoke enough to consider myself "high" and look to it in a medicinal way.

Having said all that, I am very careful of how I use it and track the days I have used it. It is usually about once a month. I feel comfortable in my use of it as many times I have decided to smoke, remembered something I have to do and decide to abstain instead.

Disclaimer: All of the above is personal experience and I am in no way suggesting the use of Marijuana by anyone.

entropy1964

My mother, a Kentucky native, always loved the derby. Of course right? She'd be shot or something if she didn't. I always found horse racing tragic and couldn't watch....ever. I mean, my daughter has a hamster that she adopted from a friend (against my wishes) and I cry if he isn't taken out daily. So, I was taking him out and playing with him. I'm a little old for that. Thankfully, he is now returned to his previous owner (who ran away and ended up in some 'facility for a month' dunno what the deal is there. Don't want to). I'm too much of a softie...all I can watch are the crops they keep thrashing the horses with.

So I have no comment on the weed as to whether its a relapse or whatever. That's up to you. I'm not sure thc helps liver disease exactly, maybe cbd does (the non-psychoactive ingredient that is normally quite low in the weed that is used to get 'high'). There are other forms now that are bred for high cbd, extremely low thc (apparently the cbd is most effective medicinally with trace amounts of thc) that are said to have medicinal properties. They help with pain, anxiety, sleep, digestion on and on. I know cbd helps me with anxiety and pain. Anywho, I know thc helps cancer pain (which is kind of 'different' from pain we experience daily) for many reasons. Also increases appetite, which is key for someone going through chemo. Maybe they are referring to peeps with liver cancer? I'd be curious to read more sources about how getting high helps liver 'disease' tho. I guess I'm picking at that for one reason. The motive , or the rationale if you will. If you wanted to get high, own it. Couple of puffs off a joint aren't going to 'save' your liver. Milk thistle I have heard is awesome.

I do believe that 'harm reduction' is a thing. I know many people in AA that smoke weed and don't talk about it....don't consider it a relapse. After years of being around the meetings ya just get to know things. I don't judge them, they are leading much better lives than before. So I just don't really know. I guess its individual. If weed use is causing negative consequences and life is unmanageable, then its a problem.

I just know for me that getting high has the potential to lead me back to my drug of choice, booze. And I get all paranoid so its not fun for me. But if I smoked weed a couple of times, every now and then, I probably wouldn't consider it a relapse. But that's just me.

WhoDeyPI

I don't consider it a relapse at all, as my issue is alcohol, and I've never been addicted to anything else. I do see how being in an altered state of mind could lead to drinking for some. For me, having 1 drink is the beginning of the very end for me. My liver simply doesn't have the functionality to process the alcohol, and it would kill me within days.

Funny you mentioned Milk Thistle. I was taking capsules religiously until my transplant doctor told me to stop. He never offered any reasoning, and I never asked.

I've never been on the conspiracy theorist train, but wouldn't be surprised if doctors are just pushing the big pharma medication and discouraging natural remedies.

digdug

The hair on my neck always stands up when I hear or read someone in recovery say something along the lines of, "my problem was with x substance, not y."

There are many of us on here who started with one substance and ended up addicted to another. I used drugs, including cannabis, from my teens until age 25. I quit because my life was getting out of hand. I rarely, if ever, drank during that period.

But at 27, I had a few drinks, thinking my problem was with drugs, not alcohol. My drinking started off slow and light - a few at social functions. A nightcap on the weekends. But by 30, I was so deep in alcohol that I almost died.

I'm not going to get into your intentions or justifications. Just sharing experience that cross-addiction is most definitely real. Many can use cannabis in moderation, as many can use alcohol in moderation. But I had to learn the hard way that I can't use ANY mind-altering substances because I cannot moderate. There are many others out there who struggle with moderation with cannabis. As someone else pointed out, just pop into the marijuana forum and see for yourself.

Just something to think about.

Caprice6

I think if you're interested, you must ask your doctor about it. Here, it is used or available for medical purposes, but must be prescribed by a doctor. Having said that, I know of so many people who take that up and it's a drag.
Their thinking is so slow, they get lazy, tired. You cannot carry a normal conversation.
I consider myself fortunate that 98% of the time I smoked pot or hash, I had a bad trip. I could laugh a lot too, but most of the time I'd get so paranoid and couldn't wait to get back to myself. I suspected everyone could see I was high as a kite walking down the street, I felt out of control of my body and mind, I'd get awful munchies...I just did not enjoy it, overall.
Best advise is to ask your medical doctor.

lessgravity

IMHO def not a relapse.

Weed, just like booze, is different for everyone. I grew up smoking weed, liked it more sometimes than others, but I always could take it or leave it. My relationship to it is the opposite of my relationship with alcohol. In the past year of my sobriety I've gotten high a small handful of times, maybe 5? Liked it, didn't love it, wish I actually liked it more as it's so easy it get these days. Truth is that I don't care for it all that much. So for me it's just not a big deal.

My reservations with your story is that you're starting something that can be very addictive for the first time in your life. There are plenty of people I've seen in my life for whom marijuana was as damaging as alcohol was for me. Because I already know how I react to it, smoking once in a blue moon is what it is. Venturing into the unknown on your part is perhaps a chance you might not want to take.

WhoDeyPI

Venturing into the unknown is how I go about life these days. I also liked it, but didn't love it, and glad I experienced something new. One of the reasons I shared my experience was to get different opinions, and I definitely succeeded in doing that. For some, the thought of going to a party with unlimited alcohol seems like a big no-no. For me, it wasn't a big deal.

Heck, someone I didn't know actually poured me a shot and basically shoved it in my face...because she wanted to take a shot and didn't want to do it alone. I quickly shut that down, but it didn't tempt me or make me want it at all.

Mummyto2

NerfThis

I definitely wouldn't class that as a relapse, but as it was your first experience, there's no way of knowing what would happen if you were to try it more frequently. It does depend on the person.

I gave up alcohol and cigarettes over 9 months ago and have smoked weed twice since then (one occasion being this past weekend) I've had more experience with it than you though, as I tried it for the first time 20 years ago and enjoyed smoking it casually with friends over the years. It's never been an addiction though. It's been a fun thing to do on a few weekends over the past years and for the past 5 or 6 years I've barely touched it. I can definitely give or take it.

As lessgravity said, venturing into the unknown with addictive substances might be risky as you may try replacing one thing with another. Or even have your mind altered so much one night that it causes you to reach for a drink due to lack of clear thinking.

WhoDeyPI

You can be addicted to literally anything, and being an addict to alcohol doesn't mean you are automatically going to be addicted to other things.

People are addicted to gambling, does that mean as an alcoholic I should never gamble? People are addicted to eating. People are addicting to NOT eating. People are addicted to exercise. I don't see any signs that I am in danger of picking up another addiction. I don't now magically crave marijuana. Heck, I don't even crave alcohol, the one thing I WAS addicted to.