Fearlessat50

Hi HC, I’ll be honest. From the steps you outlined, you seem to be on step #5. But I suppose abstinence is possible. I just hope you don’t go back through that cycle. If you do, though, there will always be support for you.

What appeal do you find in any amount of moderate drinking? Do you honestly enjoy the taste of whatever alcohol you are drinking?

If you are drinking to get a buzz, this isnt a good plan because your body will develop a tolerance and you will require more. Because of how alcohol affects the brain, you will need more but get less of a buzz effect. So what’s the point?

If I could go back to moderate drinking, I wouldn’t want to. It made me depressed. I am much happier without the poison. Much healthier too. No amount of alcohol is beneficial. It causes an increased cancer risk and a bunch of other things, science studies have shown, even in smaller amounts than previously suspected.

Verdantia

Hey, HC. In my extensive personal experience, I have found abstinence to be the only way--I have no 'off' switch once I take that first drink and once I get off and running there are no guarantees except a horrifying situation. Moderation is too complicated; it's just easier for me to not touch this neurotoxin ever again. We're all different though, and I wish you the best in whatever path you take. I hope you don't leave, though. I never thought my drinking would get to deadly levels--until it did, and my fall was stunning and fast. Thank God I have 39 months of sobriety--I never want to go back.

jryan19982

If that is how you truly feel maybe this site and its foundation of abstinance is not for you. I mean come on what in the world is this point of this thread? You've convinced yourself what you are going to do. Why post it? Being sober, as in the first word of the title of this site doesnt mean drinking sometimes and finding peace with it.

NerfThis

'I do not believe I am powerless over alcohol and do not believe learning how to enjoy alcohol is impossible.'

In the past year your posts have followed a pattern of uncontrollable drinking, vomiting, missing countless days at work, declaring you are depressed and miserable, begging for a solution to the problem then restarting the cycle.

I'm amazed that someone who has suffered like you have would consider trying to find a way to make drinking enjoyable. When you inevitably return to SR, I do hope you'll finally be ready to take on some of the incredible advice others have given you and successfully turn your life around.

Best of luck to you.

fini

abstinence is part kf the solution for me. but it took decades to reach that conclusion, to understand that deep down where that knowledge has not been shaken.

no, of course you don’t need to justify yourself. i spent decades convinced i was not powerless over alcohol , and so i kept drinking in vain and torturous attempts to control and enjoy.
not for me.
your mileage may vary, but your past experiments sound rather grim.

lessgravity

Not sure if you've already bailed on the site and are knee deep in another booze filled horror show, but I wanted to day I'm very sorry you're choosing this way to go. Its clear that you have something within you begging to get sober, otherwise why come here and post over and over. I hope you make it out before truly terrible things befall you. A grim experiment indeed.
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MantaLady

I am very concerned about and for you HC. You know that I am coming from a good place and that I do care what happens to you. We will always be here for you if you decide to return or find that moderation doesn't turn out the way you hope it will. Below are some thoughts to take away with you and I hope that you make the right choices to give yourself a chance at a happy life.

You refer to the "total abstinence cycle" but what you are describing is the cycle of "addiction" not abstinence or recovery. Relapse is part of active addiction not part of recovery. So far you have been through the addiction cycle so many times HC but you have cycled your way through steps 1, 4 and 5 repeatedly and haven't really experienced steps 2 and 3.

Let's look at the question of "Are people suffering from work/ life stress misusing alcohol wrongly being labelled alcoholics?"

Who cares what anyone wants to label it? If drinking causes you to miss work, be rude and abusive to people over text, causes days of feeling unwell, increases anxiety and puts you in dangerous and unsafe situations then it is a problem. Doesn't matter what others want to call it, but a fact is a fact and the above relationship with alcohol is not healthy and is a problem whatever way you choose to look at it and whatever label you want to put on it.

You say that "i don’t feel total abstinence is the only solution" but have said:

I have debated so much with myself on whether to post the next bit as it is quite confronting. I really hope that you can get to a place where alcohol is not ruining your life. Your posts over a period of 3 months HC, and I am not seeing someone who can moderate successfully and who has a healthy relationship with alcohol.

Dee74

HC I see you're still at least nominally a member - I hope you'll reconsider closing your account.

You can walk away from it for a while, and leave it open. If you never use it again thats fine - whats it going to hurt?

But if you decide that ultimately you want to change your life for good -it'd be good to have that option to jump right back in here and ask for help when you need it right?

As for the few hard words you've gotten - (and there are only a few) you know they still come from a place of concern for you yeah?

People here have tried what you're suggested...and have gone through great pain and misery trying to make that work - as have their families.

Thats the scenario no one here wants for you...but yeah - none of us should forget how desperately we all wanted to stay drinkers too...

Whatever path you choose, I wish you well.

D

Doris47

I will be sorry to see you go HC, have a re think please. I know I can't sensibly drink, if I have one it leads to a 3-4 day bender. I'm sure it will be the same for you. I'm not going to sit in judgement of you, I have no right to do that. But please, just take a moment to think 😊. Wishing you love and strength HC 🙏💖 Doris x

ReadyAtLast

Hey sorry to read your thread and I hope you don't close your account. There is no need to close it - who knows when you might want to come back. We are all here for you. Some great posts above and I can't really add anything more of value apart from hope you stick around.

Primativo

Sorry to read this HC. I'd be lying if I said I hadn't had similar thoughts to yourself, but it's just delusion.

At the end of the day, time and time again, I drink to get drunk. I may be able to moderate by having one or two occasionally, but all it does is tease me for wanting more. It's far harder work trying to control that, than it is to just not drink. And when you end up on another bender, like I always did, then all bets are off, depression, anxiety, paranoia, fear, self loathing, physical illness. That is what alcohol does for me and for you to by the sounds of it. Why on earth would you decide alcohol is worth all that suffering? Because you are addicted.

The very fact that you are willing to go back to drinking despite all your past suffering is the very indication that you are an addict mate.

Here's an analogy for you. If you were to eat chilli sauce, and it made you vomit, gave you diarrhea, made you miss work, made you depressed, anxious, send abusive texts and all that stuff. Would you still eat chilli sauce? Or would you simply say to someone, "No I don't eat chilli sauce, it's disgusting and doesn't agree with me".

It's like someone with a peanut allergy who knows eating peanuts will make them very ill and eventually will kill them, but choosing to still eat peanuts because they are addicted to them. WTF?

Think about it.

Tailai

nmd

Some studies I've seen on the outcomes of moderation after a person is already past a certain level of abuse show poor results.

Your description of the relapse cycle suggests, the outcome for total abstinence isnt 100% either, which is true, but i believe the outcomes are better on average.

This old thread had a lot of constructive discussion on the subject: https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-drinking.html (Maturing out, moderate drinking)

Wishing you the best

Tetrax

I think there's something to be said for Highercall's 5 step cycle but my guess (and hope) is it's mainly something that happens in the first month? I'm on Day 17 myself but the last few evenings I've felt like I've been at HC's step 4. I had the pink cloud say days 8-12 but have been fighting the 'allure' ever since. Facing life sober I see how far behind in life it feels like I am (with very little motivation/direction to change that) and the drinking life *seems* like it could just be my lot in life. I know that's the AV's voice really, it's just it's pretty damn loud.

I'm not planning a relapse, I just wanted to share how I feel about all this, serious stuff that I know deep down it is.

tomsteve

if you can turn around and drink responsibly, my hats off to ya.
however, if you think about it, you wouldnt have posted here about it if you truly believed you could do that. you would have just done it and went on with your life.

August252015

HC....one thing to add, in case you are still reading: abstinence isn't the real solution.

It's the start. The start to living a life in recovery, which is the best solution for a good life- and the only one for a life, period, if for an alcoholic like me.

MLD51

HC, you are trying to bargain with the devil here. You already know where drinking gets you, and it's hell, right? I really think you may have passed the point where moderation is possible for you. Your posts from the past should demonstrate that very clearly to you.

As for people being mislabeled as alcoholics - MantaLady said what I was thinking - why get hung up on the label? Yeah, I didn't want to be considered an alcoholic, either. I really thought I wasn't like "those people." Until I got desperate enough to go to AA and treatment, I had a really twisted idea of what kind of people were alcoholics and addicts. Turned out - they were JUST LIKE ME. I don't care what I'm called - alcoholic, abuser of alcohol, problem drinker... All I know is that I was miserable when I still drank, and now I'm not. I don't need a definition or label on my drinking to know I'm much better off without it.

DreamCatcher17

HC,
WOW, I see so much of my old self in this post full of denial. Sounds like you are not ready and have not suffered enough consequences even though Manta posted all of your DOWNS, that is still not enough? Not enough of an eye-opener to where you really are in the addiction?

I am sad for you.

While you are out there, moderating, I hope you don't suffer too harsh of a consequence. Sometimes we need a good kick in the butt from the legal system.
Be safe and please don't harm yourself or OTHERS as they are not aware of your struggle.

Be well,
DC

Evoo

I'm bummed out by this post.

Because I've had this same conversation with myself so many times. My AV still throws these daggers at me.

I can only tell you my story, Highercall (if you're still here). In my 20s I was a knock-down, very functional alcoholic. I progressed through my career, to outsiders I was just a nice, even-tempered and jolly guy -- a hard worker who enjoyed "throwing them back."

At home I was an alcoholic. I drank all the time (except mornings and at work) I pregamed for events where alcohol was or wasn't present, I was in a perpetual state of hangover and withdrawal.

Eventually, I learned to control that and moderate successfully.

It took many painful years, rough nights, the occasional bender weekend -- but through sheer force of will, fitness, diets, short-term and long-term goals, new relationships and responsibilities -- I moderated. I stopped drinking on weekdays, I rarely got "drunk." I always had a "plan" when it came to alcohol.

Let me tell you something, for an alcoholic, that is a hell of a lot of work.


Early this year I drank way too much with friends and woke up with a rotten hangover. I lied to my wife about how much I'd had. I bought beer and wine to have in the afternoon to "feel better." I was gearing up to feel terrible for a few days so I could return my normal "moderating."

I had an epiphany. What in the hell was I doing?

If you're anything like me, HigherCall, your "control" over alcohol may be successful. You may develop work/life/fitness responsibilities and pass as a normal drinker. But it'll be a lot of work.

I'm only now realizing how much anxiety and mental power I had to put into being a moderate-drinking alcoholic. It's not fun. I didn't really even enjoy the one or two beers I would have, the glass of wine with dinner, it was mostly for show. For me, giving it up actually is, in so many ways, healthier and easier.

Good luck. You'll have to figure this out on your own. Hope you keep your account, though.

Michelle644

Oh, I went through all the thoughts and views that you have now and trust me all it is, is an excuse to drink. Your AV is putting thoughts in your mind (I call it the devil) I tried cutting back and sometimes sooner and sometimes later I would always be back to drinking nightly and blacking out. Hey, once I went almost a year just drinking on Fridays and Saturdays.