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Not so crazy about 12-step programs

Old 02-07-2019, 07:44 PM
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Not so crazy about 12-step programs

By 12-step I'm specifically talking about AA.

I really don't resonate with it at all. I think it gets a lot of things wrong and may be more harmful than helpful to my sobriety.

However, the one REALLY good thing I'll say about AA is the community. I'm not gonna find that strong-knit community through SmartRecovery or any of these other ones. AA is the most unified 12 step program there is.

I think I can stay sober going to yoga, coming on SR, going to therapy, taking care of myself, and I don't think I need to get a sponsor or work a program, but I really do need that social connection, so what do you suggest I do?

Because if I hang around AA long enough, people are going to start questioning why I don't have a sponsor and don't work the steps. And they're not gonna like my answer: because I have a better way that works for me.
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:49 PM
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Quite the conundrum. If AA helps, go take what you need and leave the rest.
You say it may be harmful to your sobriety, and in the next breath say you need it.
Do whatever you need to stay sober would be my advice.
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:55 PM
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I attended AA for quite a while, and I was working the steps for a time, and I felt the meetings helped me to not drink. You don't have to do anything but go if that is helping you, and being honest that you are not working the steps doesn't mean that you are going to be asked to leave. I found some groups more helpful to me than others in AA based upon the types of people present and the topics that were regular for a particular group.
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Old 02-07-2019, 10:02 PM
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There's many different approaches and methods of recovery around SkyBird- here's some links to some of the main meeting based players, including but not limited to AA:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...formation.html

I recommend you visit the Secular Connections forum if you think you may benefit from a non 12 step approach.

The main thing tho - whatever you decide to do - is do something.
In my experience, inaction just leads to more drinking....

___________________________

Just a reminder to everyone - no recovery debates please.

Please do share what works for you.

I realise we're all different but simply sharing what doesn't work for you - for whatever reason - is nevertheless kind of redundant.

Lets keep it positive, thanks

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Old 02-07-2019, 10:20 PM
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Like you, I do meetings and SR. I DID have a sponsor- and did the 12 step bit- even though I was not a zealot. You do not have to tell anyone anything. It is not assumed you do the 12 steps- I see it as a general framework for organizing my thoughts.

I see some who embrace it- memorizing the book, quoting lots- but each person is different. One cliché type words from meetings that does resonate with me- is to take what is useful home- leave the rest behind.
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Old 02-08-2019, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by SkyBird View Post
. I think it gets a lot of things wrong ......

However, the one REALLY good thing I'll say about AA is the community.
.
would there be that community if it truly got a lot of things wrong?
how about sharing what you feel is wrong? maybe theres just a misconception about the program.
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Old 02-08-2019, 02:35 AM
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There is a guy who comes to my home group meeting a lot. And he goes to lots of other meetings. I mean, lots! He has just celebrated a year sober and he doesn't work the steps, hasn't got a sponsor, I don't think he has even opened the Big Book. He holds hands when we close the meeting , but he doesn't join in the Serenity Prayer. Would I want his recovery? No. For me personally, I need the steps, I need the Big Book. It is helping me with EVERYTHING. But my journey is my journey and his journey is his journey. We have one thing in common. A desire to stop drinking. And it is clearly working for him. The steps are suggested. You don't have to do anything. And if other people have a problem with that then it is their problem. It is your life and you have to do whatever it takes to stay sober.

Good luck on your journey. 😀
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Old 02-08-2019, 02:36 AM
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I'm an AA person but I think one thought I have, derived from my program, is that focusing on what DOES work not what doesn't - for me, others, or as a couple people have said, assessing types of persons here or there doing whatever works for them - is the best plan on top of never drinking.

So, in one word: acceptance. In a second: action. Keep doing those things and IMO and IME, at 1122 days and after a tough week emotionally - I'm continuing to go the right direction for the upcoming 3 yr mark, and the one goal I have: to die sober and happy.

Last thought: another AA axiom that can be useful to all, IMO, is "take what you want and leave the rest."
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Old 02-08-2019, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tomsteve View Post
would there be that community if it truly got a lot of things wrong?
how about sharing what you feel is wrong? maybe theres just a misconception about the program.
That's a little difficult when I've asked people not to focus on what they feel doesn't work, lol.

I'm not trying to stifle discussion but I'm really tired of the recovery debates.

I'd like to make 2019 different, or at least see some threads focus on what does work rather than what people think doesn't work.

D
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Old 02-08-2019, 04:19 AM
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Let me try again guys

if people speak badly about a method - any method - especially if emotive terms like cult, brainwashing and injurious get bandied about - there's bound to be others who got sober by that method and who will rush to defend it

Sometimes things get heated, sometimes not, but inevitably the positivity of a thread such as this - which might throw much needed light on other not so well known methods - gets subsumed in a to and fro battle about why a particular method is the best thing since sliced bread....or the devil incarnate.

I just think there's got to be a better way to have discussions....so I'd ask everyone to be mindful of what they post, and how they post it tonewise -

thanks

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Old 02-08-2019, 04:49 AM
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A community of sober alcoholics can be immensely helpful, and it's hard to find such a group outside of AA. Many recovering alcoholics are living quiet fulfilling lives among small groups of friends with wide varieties of interests, so they don't tend to assemble in organized groups like AA. I drew a lot of strength from those in AA who were able to find long term sobriety. I did not care how they got there, whether by doing the 12 steps, or just out of pure love of sobriety.

It's hard to discern whether the 12 steps of AA are actually suggestions or commandments. The book says they are suggestions, but often treats them as vital requirements, as do many people in AA. This presents a problem for some of us. Do we have to do them or not? Do we have to believe in a higher power or not? The Big Book implies we do but is careful not to call them commands. In the end, we live in a secular society where spiritual matters are left to our personal judgement.

An thank God, because finding sobriety is a highly personal process. You must find what feels right to keep sober. Advice should be respected and is sometimes helpful, but in end the end, you are responsible for finding your own way. It may resemble Bill Wilson's way, or the way of some old timer with years of sobriety, but both have elusive qualities, and are often fraught with personal baggage from past experiences and philosophies.

Your goal is sobriety. Whatever way you discover needs to be internalized, personal, and eventually habitual. All paths require serious commitment, but whether they require one step, twelve, or twenty-two, and exactly what is contained in each step is not important for everyone. I would be respectful of those who find such a structure helpful, but not feel obligated to follow their methods.

Having a sponsor may be helpful. It depends on the sponsor, but it is not required. But I learned long ago that having someone you can talk to about personal struggles is often helpful. These people are available in all areas of our social interactions. Some are helpful. Some not so much.
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Old 02-08-2019, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by tomsteve View Post
would there be that community if it truly got a lot of things wrong?
how about sharing what you feel is wrong? maybe theres just a misconception about the program.
I am echoing Dee here, TomSteve. He reminded and requested that people share what works for them, not what doesn't.
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Old 02-08-2019, 05:54 AM
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It wasn't for me either.

I did a few meetings, read the book and it just didn't fit. It doesn't have to.

For me, I took a little from everything. AA, secular, books. I also opened myself up more. I am an expert at isolating. You are whom you associate with. I spent more time with my church family, became more engaged with the organizations I work with. Instead of blowing into meetings, telling everyone what to do and then blowing back out, off to the next "thing", because I was oh so busy; I spent time, I listened. I accepted other people's input. Nothing to do with alcohol, but changing my outlook on life in general. I got introspective, I forgave myself. I started to grow. I spent time on here.

It started after Oktoberfest in 2017, I quit booze. In August 2018, I quit sugar and in December, finally quit nicotine. No one method, except surrounding myself with people I sincerely respect, whose lives I believe are good and healthy, learning who I truly am, accepting and loving myself. Learning about addiction, cleaning up my diet, I eat a strict paleo diet, I work out 6 days a week, I work and wear a variety of hats, including public service, I am active with many organizations, including one my husband and I founded, involved in the kids activities. There was no one path for my recovery, but that worked for me. I don't dwell on recovery. With a smile I can decline alcohol, I don't drink, nobody would offer a smoke anyways lol and no, I am sorry, I can't eat that food.
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Old 02-08-2019, 06:15 AM
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Although AA was not for me either, I'm always impressed by and envious of the community and relationships that I see when I go to meetings once every few months.

There's so much out there that works, from books to podcasts to other methods. There's no benefit in tearing down any which one of them. The only benefit I see is choosing what works for you and going forward.

I don't go to the gym and complain about people doing workouts that I don't like. I go to the gym and I do the workout that works for me.
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Old 02-08-2019, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
That's a little difficult when I've asked people not to focus on what they feel doesn't work, lol.

I'm not trying to stifle discussion but I'm really tired of the recovery debates.

I'd like to make 2019 different, or at least see some threads focus on what does work rather than what people think doesn't work.

D
im NOT trying to debate,dee. as you are well aware, there are MANY misconceptions of AA and im only trying to help see what very well could be misconceptions.
im sorry you dont feel it necessary to try and help someone understand.
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Old 02-08-2019, 06:46 AM
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'Correcting' someone's misconceptions inevitably turns into debate and sparring. Instead of trying to change someone's mind, we can focus on what are the positives of all recovery programs.
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Old 02-08-2019, 06:53 AM
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I like what DriGuy said.

I do go to AA, but I am lucky to have found a meeting that is anything but judgmental and respects everyone's path, however they do it. It's a women's meeting, and we don't even use the Big Book. My point is, if you want the community, try different meetings, because in most places, unless you live in a REALLy small town, there is a variety. And people tend to settle into certain meetings that are comfortable for them in tone, and where they identify with the other people there.

I worked the steps, and I have a sponsor (in name anyway) but I wasn't a zealot, Like PJ said. I did the parts of the steps that resonated with me, when I was ready to do them. I agree 100% that AA CAN be overly dogmatic and operate from a place of fear, and that doesn't work for me. I take what works for me, and combine it with a bunch of other methods that work for me. I meditate, I read recovery books, I have online support here and in other places, I do some journaling. I love the community I found in AA, but there are plenty of other ways to find community if you really can't deal with AA.

Just figure out what works for you and do it.
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Old 02-08-2019, 07:10 AM
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I’ve been in AA for 15 months , it has been working for me. I haven’t drank , my life is changing all good. The religion , cult debate has been thrown around for yrs. whatever, I don’t take it personally it works for me. It’s not the here all and end all of recovery programs.
Whatever road u take as long as you get there.
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Old 02-08-2019, 07:13 AM
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I appreciate this forum for its acceptance of alternatives, and I appreciate the moderators who have to maintain such an environment. We can all benefit from cooperation that facilitates the common good.

The help needed by alcoholics suffering from an affliction that is not well understood relies heavily on personal experiences (which are often opinions) helpful to some, but not others.

Humanity is diverse. The commonality of alcoholics seeking help is that we all drink or drank so much that it interfered with our lives. Beyond that, we have a wide variety of perceptions that are sometimes mutually exclusive. And all of us have limitations to what we can and cannot do, but we still seek workable solutions that accommodate our perceptions, personal philosophies and beliefs. And I believe such alternative solutions do exist. Without them, I would not likely be sober today.
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Old 02-08-2019, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by MLD51 View Post
I like what DriGuy said.

I do go to AA, but I am lucky to have found a meeting that is anything but judgmental and respects everyone's path, however they do it. It's a women's meeting, and we don't even use the Big Book. My point is, if you want the community, try different meetings, because in most places, unless you live in a REALLy small town, there is a variety. And people tend to settle into certain meetings that are comfortable for them in tone, and where they identify with the other people there.
My introduction to AA was a small town, with limited views about most everything, but I was still accepted by the group, and fairly well understood by several members. As I traveled about, I was able to experience other groups, all with the same basic structure, but with more diversity. I lived on my boat near LA for a few months, and was surrounded by different groups all day long. It didn't take long to identify with a group where I settled in very comfortably.

Originally Posted by MLD51 View Post
I worked the steps, and I have a sponsor (in name anyway) but I wasn't a zealot, Like PJ said. I did the parts of the steps that resonated with me, when I was ready to do them. I agree 100% that AA CAN be overly dogmatic and operate from a place of fear, and that doesn't work for me. I take what works for me, and combine it with a bunch of other methods that work for me.
It took me months to finally get a sponsor while I watched and listened to others before I asked anyone. My sponsor was of the "in name only" kind too. We did not work on steps. We were 180 degrees apart in spiritual agreement, but we talked freely. We became close friends who could talk about things we did not agree on at all, while still growing in mutual respect throughout.

I should clarify about "in name only." It was not a traditional sponsor relationship, but it was beneficial for both of us. He's 3000 miles away now, but we still talk on the phone once in a while. We were both totally committed to sobriety. He's got 5 more years on me, but together we have over 50 years of combined sobriety if you add us both together. LOL
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