My six AA "non-God" steps
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 449
AA helps in the fact that it is a distraction, it is a place to meet similar people in same situation but it is extremely limited. It is a circular confusion. It is a bit like religion. Like say for the argument of God. There is so much scientific evidence that it is very unlikely that a God was responsible for the creation of the universe yet the argument will continues because of illogical rationality. Look at everything that exists and is successful, it is because it's premise is simple and ambiguous. I mean how much has AA changed over the years? It has got to the point where higher power can mean absolutely anything. Like so what is it they are even advocating anymore, apart from include as many people as possible?
No Dogma Please
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
I tried very hard to work AA/NA/CA/whatever A for my first four months. It just wasn't for me. It's a great program, but it's not for everyone. I've so far remained sober for 20 months and don't see a return to drinking anytime soon.
I got a sponsor I really liked and trusted and tried to work the steps. It just didn't feel right. So I moved to something else.
Brand's 12 step approach would be needlessly complicated and trying to fit a round peg into a square hole for me. If I have to go through those kind of gyrations to get over my dislike of the religious overtones of 12 Step and the whole higher power surrender thing, my thought is that there is a better way for me. And there was.
That was me. There are no bad routes to sobriety as long as they work. If AA is keeping you sober, than it's right for you.
I got a sponsor I really liked and trusted and tried to work the steps. It just didn't feel right. So I moved to something else.
Brand's 12 step approach would be needlessly complicated and trying to fit a round peg into a square hole for me. If I have to go through those kind of gyrations to get over my dislike of the religious overtones of 12 Step and the whole higher power surrender thing, my thought is that there is a better way for me. And there was.
That was me. There are no bad routes to sobriety as long as they work. If AA is keeping you sober, than it's right for you.
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Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 5,152
Originally Posted by andyh 
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,347
Originally Posted by Anna
Please remember we don't allow debates about recovery programs.
Lets stay on topic - please stay on the steps and different approaches to understanding them and the Higher Power concept.
The topic here is not why, for whatever reason, someone thinks AA doesn't work.
That line of discussion will end this thread pretty quick.
For anyone reading, if for whatever reason AAs not for you there any number of secular meeting based approaches that might - some have been mentioned here like Refuge Recovery - others include SMART or Lifering.
Rational Recovery is a non meeting based approach.
Do some Googling.
Dee
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SR
D♭7♭9♯9♯11♭13
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 336
Originally Posted by DontRemember
What's that? Just curious..
It's AA with renaming the steps to a secular, Brand way, since he's not religious. I'm not a 12-stepper, but I ordered his Audible book not knowing it was a 12-step audiobook, and it's very good.
A lot of the things he says makes sense in terms of a higher power just being something greater than you, like nature, for example. Everyone thinks they control everything until 150mph winds remind us we are nothing in the universe.
That all aside, the humility and honesty he puts forth in his book is a compelling listen.
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,966
Originally Posted by dcg
I posted the first 6 steps in post #18.
It's AA with renaming the steps to a secular, Brand way, since he's not religious. I'm not a 12-stepper, but I ordered his Audible book not knowing it was a 12-step audiobook, and it's very good.
A lot of the things he says makes sense in terms of a higher power just being something greater than you, like nature, for example. Everyone thinks they control everything until 150mph winds remind us we are nothing in the universe.
That all aside, the humility and honesty he puts forth in his book is a compelling listen.
It's AA with renaming the steps to a secular, Brand way, since he's not religious. I'm not a 12-stepper, but I ordered his Audible book not knowing it was a 12-step audiobook, and it's very good.
A lot of the things he says makes sense in terms of a higher power just being something greater than you, like nature, for example. Everyone thinks they control everything until 150mph winds remind us we are nothing in the universe.
That all aside, the humility and honesty he puts forth in his book is a compelling listen.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
Early Six-step Versions of the Steps
just because i was reminded, here is a link to the original 6 steps.
just because i was reminded, here is a link to the original 6 steps.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Originally Posted by EANx
I pulled the steps from the AA site so you might want to double-check your step order. If prayer works for you (step 11) then great! For me it's just talking to myself. We each have a different journey.
1 acceptance
10/11 combined - refer to pp 84-88 of the BB - personal inventory/the questions (p 86)/ prayer and meditation on our spiritual development
12 service to others, specifically carrying the message to those who still suffer (ch 7 BB)
My underlying acceptance that 3 (a power greater than me, check) guides everything (steps and application in life) along with 1, that acceptance of all things not just drinking. Prayer and acceptance (specifically in relation to the steps, that I need to accept their usefulness to my recovery) weaves through all steps for me.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 449
Just want to apologise for my unnecessary posts about AA. This isn't the place to be trashing other people's recovery methods. I like many AA members on here and I feel bad that I got frustrated and decided to post the things I did. I promised myself I wouldn't argue about AA whilst I'm on this site.
Dee if you could delete the posts that would be much appreciated
Dee if you could delete the posts that would be much appreciated
Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 5,152
Originally Posted by Lonewolf22
Just want to apologise for my unnecessary posts about AA. This isn't the place to be trashing other people's recovery methods. I like many AA members on here and I feel bad that I got frustrated and decided to post the things I did. I promised myself I wouldn't argue about AA whilst I'm on this site.
Dee if you could delete the posts that would be much appreciated
Dee if you could delete the posts that would be much appreciated
But it's OK to recognize that it may not be for everyone, and that it may not be the best approach for you, that is if you are lucky enough to have other alternatives near you. I have no data to support this, but even some old timers in AA claimed to me early on that most alcoholics who quit drinking do it on their own. I suppose they read this somewhere, although I've never read it myself.
But I do know several people that quit on their own. Most are rather closed mouthed about it, and you won't meet the one's I've met in places like this, so you don't hear from them. They don't make a big deal about their recovery, although they have talked about their past drinking. So it almost seems like they don't exist. I suspect but don't know, that some may not have been alcoholics to begin with, but I know such recovered alcoholics are out there. I've met them.
I needed a support group involving face to face recovering alcoholics, their body language, and audible voice inflections. I'm not sure if I could have done it by myself even here. I needed more. AA was the only place I could find such a fellowship in my area. So I politely listened and sifted through information on my own, drew strength from the success stories, reveled in the joy, and came out sober.
There's nothing about AA that deserves to be trashed anymore than some secular approach should be trashed. We are all alcoholics trying to find our way out of the mire, and there is a little good in all of it.
What I believe is most important in recovery is commitment to life long sobriety, no excuses for slips, no tolerance for risk situations, and a recognition that your predisposed genetics or acquired addiction or whatever it is, is never going to go away. The cravings will end, but your alcoholism won't. Without this being fully internalized, programs and steps, be they spiritual or secular, aren't going to solve the problem.
I'm also aware that my personal system, as committed and confident in it as I am, may not be for everyone. But I would recommend AA to anyone, because even though some in the program might tell you that you're doing it wrong, most will rejoice in your success, and that kind of support can't be found in your family or peers. Family may be pleased, but it's unlikely that they can actually share in your joy or sense of accomplishment. At best, they're more likely to be relieved that you're no longer such a pain their ass.
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Big City
Posts: 3,895
Originally Posted by DriGuy
But I do know several people that quit on their own. Most are rather closed mouthed about it, and you won't meet the one's I've met in places like this, so you don't hear from them. They don't make a big deal about their recovery, although they have talked about their past drinking. So it almost seems like they don't exist. I suspect but don't know, that some may not have been alcoholics to begin with, but I know such recovered alcoholics are out there. I've met them.
My not drinking is a huge deal, and I make it so here.
And there's no question as to me being an alcoholic so please disabuse yourself of thinking only non-alcoholics can quit on their own, or at least without an irl support group.
My belief in the higher power of self, family, integrity and not wasting my life saved me. Oh, and SR.
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Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 5,152
Originally Posted by lessgravity
And there's no question as to me being an alcoholic so please disabuse yourself of thinking only non-alcoholics can quit on their own, or at least without an irl support group.
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Originally Posted by DriGuy
This forum is about recovery from alcoholism. My understanding is that it supports any route to recovery. My sense is that the majority worldwide believe in higher power. AA reaches out to the spiritual majority and has established itself as the most common recovery route taken by people seeking help. It fits the majority. That's a good thing.
But it's OK to recognize that it may not be for everyone, and that it may not be the best approach for you, that is if you are lucky enough to have other alternatives near you. I have no data to support this, but even some old timers in AA claimed to me early on that most alcoholics who quit drinking do it on their own. I suppose they read this somewhere, although I've never read it myself.
But I do know several people that quit on their own. Most are rather closed mouthed about it, and you won't meet the one's I've met in places like this, so you don't hear from them. They don't make a big deal about their recovery, although they have talked about their past drinking. So it almost seems like they don't exist. I suspect but don't know, that some may not have been alcoholics to begin with, but I know such recovered alcoholics are out there. I've met them.
I needed a support group involving face to face recovering alcoholics, their body language, and audible voice inflections. I'm not sure if I could have done it by myself even here. I needed more. AA was the only place I could find such a fellowship in my area. So I politely listened and sifted through information on my own, drew strength from the success stories, reveled in the joy, and came out sober.
There's nothing about AA that deserves to be trashed anymore than some secular approach should be trashed. We are all alcoholics trying to find our way out of the mire, and there is a little good in all of it.
What I believe is most important in recovery is commitment to life long sobriety, no excuses for slips, no tolerance for risk situations, and a recognition that your predisposed genetics or acquired addiction or whatever it is, is never going to go away. The cravings will end, but your alcoholism won't. Without this being fully internalized, programs and steps, be they spiritual or secular, aren't going to solve the problem.
I'm also aware that my personal system, as committed and confident in it as I am, may not be for everyone. But I would recommend AA to anyone, because even though some in the program might tell you that you're doing it wrong, most will rejoice in your success, and that kind of support can't be found in your family or peers. Family may be pleased, but it's unlikely that they can actually share in your joy or sense of accomplishment. At best, they're more likely to be relieved that you're no longer such a pain their ass.
But it's OK to recognize that it may not be for everyone, and that it may not be the best approach for you, that is if you are lucky enough to have other alternatives near you. I have no data to support this, but even some old timers in AA claimed to me early on that most alcoholics who quit drinking do it on their own. I suppose they read this somewhere, although I've never read it myself.
But I do know several people that quit on their own. Most are rather closed mouthed about it, and you won't meet the one's I've met in places like this, so you don't hear from them. They don't make a big deal about their recovery, although they have talked about their past drinking. So it almost seems like they don't exist. I suspect but don't know, that some may not have been alcoholics to begin with, but I know such recovered alcoholics are out there. I've met them.
I needed a support group involving face to face recovering alcoholics, their body language, and audible voice inflections. I'm not sure if I could have done it by myself even here. I needed more. AA was the only place I could find such a fellowship in my area. So I politely listened and sifted through information on my own, drew strength from the success stories, reveled in the joy, and came out sober.
There's nothing about AA that deserves to be trashed anymore than some secular approach should be trashed. We are all alcoholics trying to find our way out of the mire, and there is a little good in all of it.
What I believe is most important in recovery is commitment to life long sobriety, no excuses for slips, no tolerance for risk situations, and a recognition that your predisposed genetics or acquired addiction or whatever it is, is never going to go away. The cravings will end, but your alcoholism won't. Without this being fully internalized, programs and steps, be they spiritual or secular, aren't going to solve the problem.
I'm also aware that my personal system, as committed and confident in it as I am, may not be for everyone. But I would recommend AA to anyone, because even though some in the program might tell you that you're doing it wrong, most will rejoice in your success, and that kind of support can't be found in your family or peers. Family may be pleased, but it's unlikely that they can actually share in your joy or sense of accomplishment. At best, they're more likely to be relieved that you're no longer such a pain their ass.
My uncle quit drinking on his own after a doctor told him his liver was shot. He was old school and believed one should pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. He felt AA was a crutch but he was still happy AA was working for me and I had put the bottle down.
There isn't a right/wrong way to get sober. What is important is not to pick up that first drink and today there a number or recovery programs which can help.
Then off to the races where you've got to live life on life terms.
You can use the various the 12-steps of AA and/or mix them with something else.
Whatever works for you. Sobriety isn't a competition
Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 5,152
Originally Posted by Ken33xx
My uncle quit drinking on his own after a doctor told him his liver was shot. He was old school and believed one should pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.
Originally Posted by Ken33xx
He felt AA was a crutch but he was still happy AA was working for me and I had put the bottle down.
Originally Posted by Ken33xx
There isn't a right/wrong way to get sober. What is important is not to pick up that first drink and today there a number or recovery programs which can help.
Originally Posted by Ken33xx
You can use the various the 12-steps of AA and/or mix them with something else. Whatever works for you. Sobriety isn't a competition
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